TremZ does not have a game, or, how GeneralScott Finally Saw The Light, Ep. 1

[Supertanker]

Just taken from the tremz.net forums before it will undoubtedly be erased by Herm, SamOz, or others.







What GeneralScott describe is the exact situation I saw--before I was removed from the development team without warning. Volt had posted a thread in the Development forums asking for people to decide if they wanted to join TremZ or Unv, and he gave us 14 days to decide. He dropped me on Day 2 with no warning or explanation, which is a shame because I was working on a map. I have not got a response to PMs in weeks regarding this...

They're looking for mappers, but apparently it's easier to just rope in people who don't know what they're getting in to!

So this is TremZ. Lovely place, that. Deletes any posts that challenge them. (That is a very responsible way of dealing with dissent, is it not?) Fluffs up its chest and puffs out its feathers to make it look more than it really is.

Also, I realize that the license allows them to do this, but Volt and the others don't seem to bother asking before taking assets and including them in the game. In fact, the only person who has bothered asking was TheDushan, who asked me and a few other asset makers if our things could be included in TremZ. I thought that was rather polite of him. Less can be said for Volt and the others...

P.S. Yes, I use Firefox 3 and XFCE. I also turn off images so I can load the godawful forum on dialup. Go backports and old-school DEs! And dialup modems.

P.P.S. In case it hasn't been deleted yet: http://tremz.com/community/showthread.php?tid=445

[CreatureofHell]

P.P.S. In case it hasn't been deleted yet: http://tremz.com/community/showthread.php?tid=445

Toooooooo late!

What are you trying to do? We don't need an update on our forums about the progress of another game.

[Sixthly]

Volt has attempted to overthrow leadership of the project two times. The first time he created a document, here is a quote from the said document (he has since deleted it):

Never was there any censorship on the forums for anything when I was project head, even
during Davids post we didn’t censor the community. Why in the hell are we suddenly so eager
to start censoring people on our forums(http://pastebin.com/F1r0USA6)? Also why is Paradox
allowed such actions, if any other developer attempted similar actions they would be dealt with
punishment. So again I ask the question, Also why is Paradox allowed such actions, why do the
current project heads allow him special luxuries that other developers do not have.

Given the amount of censorship on the TremZ forums, it's safe to say that volt is power hungry and was purely inventing reasons to take over the project. I've seen hundreds of posts and many threads get deleted since volt and HermXIV's coup.

Edit: Here is a link to the full document that I saved before volt deleted it for those who are interested: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19689620/volt/ProjectHead.pdf

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

goddamn that entire document is full of lol.

Not a single current project head has taken up legal responsibility for project since I stepped
down, I did what I knew was best at the time for project. I found myself no longer able to be the
project head and tried to find proper successor, I did everything in my power to give the current
project heads legal ownership over project. To this date none of them has signed required paper
work to take over project and release me from the contracts related to project. Also none of
them has finalized business licence for project. It is insulting to take the role of project head
without taking the legal responsibilities attached to it.

tell me someone, anyone, what is the ratio of hobbyist, open source projects that have business licenses to those that dont?  how many have "required paperwork" for ownership over and above GPL or equivalent?  did volt read "indy game development for dummies" and fail to realize the subject matter is closed source material rather than open?  you only have a business license if you earn income.....  so what income is volt planning on m aking from a free and open source project.   then again, we cant really call volt's project open source, as we cannot even see his codebase until he releases....  so until such a time, the project is actually closed source.

he insults people on IRC, calls others ideas stupid and censors
community post on the forums.

lmao.  seeing volt, of all people, calling ANYONE out for this is HILARIOUS.  i mean, seriously, this is high fucking comedy.  i literally laughed out loud when i read this.  for a couple of minutes.

This has already been done since Dushan left, I have along with Sixthly and Dushan been
working on a separate code base to allow us to actually work on what we want instead of
debate it on #tremz-dev.

so, instead of working with a team, volt forks the project.  sorry, volt, that is part of being a team member.  i dont see how anyone willingly wants to work with volt.  are we sure the rest of his "team" are real people and not just volt using a sockpuppet or something?


reading that little document has confirmed my impressions.  volt does not know how to do anything, except perhaps rig up a hud.  yet, he craves "power" and "authority".  amateur psychoanalysis  would peg volt as quite timid in real life, most probably looked down upon and mocked.  thus he compensates online, trying to make a sandbox where he controls everything, in contrast to his real life where he is powerless.

oh, also ive seen volt call himself a programmer.  can anyone point me to an actual program he has written?  c'mon volt, i'll show you mine if you show me yours.

[CreatureofHell]

From my time as a moderator on the TremZ forums until their big cleanup just a few days ago I can honestly say volt never personally deleted a post. SamOz, that wonderful paragon of virtue, is the main perpetrator of censorship.

[kharnov]

From my time as a moderator on the TremZ forums until their big cleanup just a few days ago I can honestly say volt never personally deleted a post. SamOz, that wonderful paragon of virtue, is the main perpetrator of censorship.

That would probably be due to Volt having gone into hiding for the last few weeks, instead of any implied benevolence on his part.

[SamOz]

Actually, Supertanker - General Scott later requested that HermXIV remove that post.

I asked General Scott about it. His reply, "I was in a bad mood that morning, and I gave him permission to delete it because it was a ragetopic."

I believe we are in our rights to delete posts from spammers and trolls as well. Most forums have some rules to abide by, complaining about the enforcement of those rules is just sour grapes.

Also, Sixthly, remove that strange delusion you have about so many things. The original engine is not the "fork", it's the other way around. The original engine is OpenWolf. The engine used by Unvanquished, which is called Daemon, was forked from OpenWolf. You know this, so why the deceptive claims otherwise? OpenWolf has no licensing issues, but Daemon does. TremZ/OpenWolf also runs the Newton Physics with no problems.

Your claim that everyone on the TremZ team is a sockpuppet is LMFAO rubbish. Please inform the commercial game industry, and the film industry, of your theories about some of their most highly talented people being sockpuppets of a guy called Volt. Weren't you odd people in Unvanquished repeatedly saying that TremZ only had 2 developers, HermXIV and Volt? I recall seeing those silly ignorant claims at the time and thinking "Can't these fools count?!" Visit the TremZ forums, the full list of "official" developers is there in the Announcements section.

I and others have asked for permission to use assets, artwork, and whatever else is needed when required, as regular practice. Those who claim otherwise are being dishonest.

If guilt-by-association is your reason for attacking the rest of the TremZ development team merely because you have personal grudge issues against Volt, then you're being more than a little immature. Volt may be the technical project head, but the rest of the team are not Volt. The TremZ game is not Volt. Volt is just himself. He doesn't make most of the day to day decisions. He doesn't create the artwork or models. He doesn't even decide the direction that TremZ is developing. The rest of the team together do most of those things. We are not Volt. The TremZ community that influences the direction of the game development are also not Volt.

Why should someone's personal grudges against a single person be held against everyone else on a big project who are only trying to make a great game? I don't get that.

Day after day, all I see from the Unvanquished Mob is mud-slinging and personal grudges. You lot are all nutters, IMHO.

[kharnov]

I think the fact that dissent has to be posted here, instead of your own forums, is somewhat of a testament to the lack of respect you have for members of your community, both present and potential. It's quite ludicrous to brand all contrary speech as spam or trolling, and I find it quite ironic that you freely and flagrantly delete posts and ban users, while regularly reaching out for their feedback in your posts. What, precisely, do you expect to be posted on your forums? You might not notice this, but the degree of censorship on your forum is appalling. There are numerous threads in which members reply to posts and posters that no longer exist. Many threads have just been deleted outright, besides the specific one mentioned in this thread, and I'm fairly sure that GeneralScott might have said otherwise if he wasn't pressured by Herm into removing his post. If you believe that you can build up a community by filtering out dissenters and pretending that they don't exist, you are nothing short of a delusional narcissist.

[Creative1]

SamOz make rly big posts all time evry time. 
gg men.
and also confuses people and dodges their questions by making huge tl;dr posts blabbering about something totally different and calling people trolls when they ask him for a brief answer and to stop avoiding their questions lul.

[/dev/humancontroller]

I believe we are in our rights to delete posts from spammers and trolls

and criticists. but that doesn't make you a non-faggot.

OpenWolf has no licensing issues, but Daemon does.

WRONG.

you odd people in Unvanquished repeatedly saying that TremZ only had 2 developers

WRONG.

I and others have asked for permission to use assets, artwork, and whatever else is needed when required, as regular practice.

WRONG¹.

guilt-by-association is your reason for attacking the rest of the TremZ development team merely because you have personal grudge issues against Volt

WRONG. there's also a faggot with the worst mentality i've ever seen, and that's you. other highly-faggy mentalities (though not as nearly as high as yours) include that of HermXIV. and there's a coder who has 0 sense of teamwork and ~0 potential to develop of stable code; he develops a closed-source fork² of an open-source engine.

Volt is just himself. He doesn't make most of the day to day decisions. He doesn't create the artwork or models. He doesn't even decide the direction that TremZ is developing. The rest of the team together do most of those things.

irrelevant. even 1 member of the team can earn well-deserved flames for the whole team by spraying his crap around. it's the responsibility of the whole team to blackball members that spray shit and attract flames. your retarded mentality asks for such a decision (in fact, volt's little illegal activities are nothing compared to your bullshit), and shit must be scooped on any project in which you have a considerable role.

¹ with an appropriate meaning of others, ie., including volt
² according to posts, the closed-source OpenWolf&TremZ code borrows all the code from and expands on Daemon&TremZ/Unvanquished, making OW&TZ the fork

[1337-Kynes]

I believe we are in our rights to delete posts from spammers and trolls as well. Most forums have some rules to abide by, complaining about the enforcement of those rules is just sour grapes.

Yes, you can do this, but that doesn't mean you should. Yes, forums have rules, but most forums don’t delete every dissenting opinion. People are complaining about this because it's a terrible way to run a forum. If you think somebody's post is misinformed, reply with an explanation. If you can’t support it in a discussion, maybe you are in the wrong and need to reexamine your position. Don't try to create the illusion of consensus when there is none.
For the curious, here's a conversation in which SamOz explains his position on this: http://pastebin.com/WD7H6Guj

Also, Sixthly, remove that strange delusion you have about so many things. The original engine is not the "fork", it's the other way around. The original engine is OpenWolf. The engine used by Unvanquished, which is called Daemon, was forked from OpenWolf. You know this, so why the deceptive claims otherwise?

This is pretty much just irrelevant hairsplitting, but it could use some clarifying

Here's a simplified timeline (I might have mixed up the order of 3 and 4):
1.  Dushan made openwolf
2.  TremZ picked it up and worked with Dushan on it
3.  TremZ forked OpenWolf, calling their fork Daemon
4.  TremZ renamed to Unvanquished
5.  TremZ split from Unvanquished, with Unvanquished retaining both of the project heads and nearly all of the original developers.

I’d call TremZ a fork of Unvanquished, and the Daemon engine a fork of the OpenWolf engine, but this depends on what you consider a fork, and it really isn’t important. A project’s level of forkiness isn’t related to its quality.

OpenWolf has no licensing issues, but Daemon does.

I haven’t heard anybody claim that either OpenWolf or Daemon have any licensing problems before. If you have an example, let’s see it. If you’re referring to the TremZ and Unvanquished projects as a whole, that statement is impressively wrong (see threads about TremZ having licensing issues, and the lack of threads about Unvanquished having them). I've uploaded a discussion about this between SamOz, Dushan, and Danmal here:  http://pastebin.com/Ke0wmwP9 .

TremZ/OpenWolf also runs the Newton Physics with no problems.

That’s great, and completely unrelated. It isn't even a good jab at our project. Here's Ishq on newton physics in Unvanquished:

<`Ishq> It runs.
<`Ishq> And the objects interact with themsleves and the map.
<`Ishq> I plan to switch to Bullet though.

Your claim that everyone on the TremZ team is a sockpuppet is LMFAO rubbish.

According to a recent study, the TremZ dev team is actually entirely composed of sock puppets. Don't try to deny it.

Please inform the commercial game industry, and the film industry, of your theories about some of their most highly talented people being sockpuppets of a guy called Volt.

I imagine this is a bit of an exaggeration. Not trying to dis any of the tremz asset creators, I just find that hard to believe.

I recall seeing those silly ignorant claims at the time and thinking "Can't these fools count?!" Visit the TremZ forums, the full list of "official" developers is there in the Announcements section.

When TremZ initially broke off, we only knew about two members of their team (HermXIV and Volt) because they were the only ones who we had talked to. Perhaps there were others at that time, but we had no way of knowing that, and if that was the case it would imply that Tremz had been secretly working this out in advance, which seems a bit on the dishonest side.

I and others have asked for permission to use assets, artwork, and whatever else is needed when required, as regular practice. Those who claim otherwise are being dishonest.

I've yet to see any satisfactory explanation for this:
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=16503.msg232347#msg232347
Or this:
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=16503.msg232348#msg232348
Or this:
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=16503.msg232312#msg232312

If guilt-by-association is your reason for attacking the rest of the TremZ development team
merely because you have personal grudge issues against Volt, then you're being more than a little immature. Volt may be the technical project head, but the rest of the team are not Volt. The TremZ game is not Volt. Volt is just himself. He doesn't make most of the day to day decisions. He doesn't create the artwork or models. He doesn't even decide the direction that TremZ is developing. The rest of the team together do most of those things. We are not Volt. The TremZ community that influences the direction of the game development are also not Volt.

Could you please post examples of the things that you're railing against because I haven’t seen this at all. Personally, I don’t have any issue with most of the people on the TremZ team. And what does Volt do then?

Why should someone's personal grudges against a single person be held against everyone else on a big project who are only trying to make a great game? I don't get that.

I don’t get that either, because it isn’t happening

Day after day, all I see from the Unvanquished Mob is mud-slinging and personal grudges. You lot are all nutters, IMHO.

The lack of self awareness here is shocking to me. Are you not aware of how offensive your own posts have been? Do you really think that all criticism is mud slinging? And do you really expect people to be polite to you after all that has happened? I've insulted people from your project, I have personal issues with some people from your project, but that is because they have done things that I disagree with. They've done things that provoke anger, so they receive it. I don’t say that there are licensing issues with volt’s work because I dislike volt, I say it because there are licensing issues with his work. I don't say you spew BS and have a tenuous grip on reality because I don't like you, I say it because I sincerely think that is the truth.

[SamOz]

I think the fact that dissent has to be posted here, instead of your own forums,

That's a misrepresentation. I don't stop people posting on the TremZ forums. If they only post to start an argument, or spam with repetitions of the same post, or otherwise break the forum rules, then I'll enforce the rules and react accordingly. Deal with it. Stop repeating sour grapes rubbish.

People can debate quite rationally and clearly without trying to spam, troll, or act like idiots. danmal does it well. Copy his example. He never swears, he never tries to start a fight, he never tries to spam, he never ignores forum rules.

---------------

Here's a simplified timeline (I might have mixed up the order of 3 and 4):
1.  Dushan made openwolf
2.  TremZ picked it up and worked with Dushan on it
3.  TremZ forked OpenWolf, calling their fork Daemon
4.  TremZ renamed to Unvanquished
5.  TremZ split from Unvanquished, with Unvanquished retaining both of the project heads and nearly all of the original developers.

LOL - Your own words; (I might have mixed up the order of 3 and 4)

If you can't be honest and clear in a timeline, don't post it. Clearly you have more than a few errors there.

Volt was the original project head, he became again the project head. Therefore, Unvanquished retained two "former" project heads. The OpenWolf engine was always OpenWolf, it wasn't "renamed", because only the creator of the engine, TheDushan has the legal and ethical right to do that. Unvanquished followers chose to fork the engine and create OpenWolf, working on it in divergence from what the original creator of the OpenWolf engine had agreed to. You know quite well that legally, Daemon is a FORK of the OpenWolf engine, it is NOT the other way around. TremZ wasn't actually "renamed" in any legitimate way either; the forums stayed the TremZ forums, the TremZ Wiki stayed as the TremZ Wiki, the TremZ game stayed as the TremZ game in a seperate repository. What was released in early March was the Unvanquished "pre-alpha", not the TremZ game. What the Unvanquished people took with them was their forked version of TremZ and OpenWolf, plus around ten time-wasting PR people who didn't do anything anyway, and around half of the other developers on top of this.

I imagine this is a bit of an exaggeration. Not trying to dis any of the tremz asset creators, I just find that hard to believe.

Wonderful. Your ignorance can continue then with nothing to shake you out of that box.

[1337-Kynes]

If you can't be honest and clear in a timeline, don't post it. Clearly you have more than a few errors there.

Yes, I'm a fallible human and I'm not afraid to admit it. The order of those parts wasn't important, and I think we both agree on that timeline anyway.

TremZ forked OpenWolf, calling their fork Daemon

The OpenWolf engine was always OpenWolf, it wasn't "renamed", because only the creator of the engine, TheDushan has the legal and ethical right to do that. Unvanquished followers chose to fork the engine and create OpenWolf, working on it in divergence from what the original creator of the OpenWolf engine had agreed to. You know quite well that legally, Daemon is a FORK of the OpenWolf engine, it is NOT the other way around. TremZ wasn't actually "renamed" in any legitimate way either; the forums stayed the TremZ forums, the TremZ Wiki stayed as the TremZ Wiki, the TremZ game stayed as the TremZ game in a seperate repository. What was released in early March was the Unvanquished "pre-alpha", not the TremZ game.

This is more or less correct, and I haven't seen anybody claim otherwise (assuming "Unvanquished followers chose to fork the engine and create OpenWolf" is a mistake, and ignoring the silliness of "legitimate" naming), though I don't see how it is related to your point, and I think you're a bit confused about copyright law.

You clearly didn't read what I wrote. Daemon is a fork of OpenWolf, I've never said otherwise. I also said "this depends on what you consider a fork, and it really isn’t important." Clearly we have different ideas of what a fork is, so let's just agree to disagree on that point because it's petty and irrelevant.

Oh, and by the way, Volt had prepared for the split in early February because I advised him to. Too many supposed "developers" weren't doing anything. Of 32 developers in total, 20 of them did almost nothing, or wasted time in scandals, gossip, mud throwing nonsense.  - - - just as Unvanquished developers and too many of their followers continue to do. I started recruiting before the split, easy to see it was going to become necessary.

Yeah, that's kind of underhanded and dishonest.

The rest of the claims from you people are simply more storm-in-a-teacup nonsense.

All I asked was that you provide some evidence for your points. I think it's safe to assume that you have none.

[EckleckLighat]

For the love of the god I don't believe in...

Shut up. All of you. With all the time that you guys have spent flaming each other, I could have finished my own Tremulous fork. Stop slinging political shit-bombs, and make your f***ing games!



 




In other news, my town was recently attacked by giant flying lambdas. Yes. Lambdas. And you're worried about your games. THE LAMBDAS ARE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Toniiiiiight..... we riiiiiide..... Hueg Tirans.....

lmao.  seeing volt, of all people, calling ANYONE out for this is HILARIOUS.  i mean, seriously, this is high fucking comedy.  i literally laughed out loud when i read this.  for a couple of minutes.

Likewise. For this entire thread. And the 2 billion others.

Just ruining the mood

- Nas Insantiumus

[SamOz]

I don’t say that there are licensing issues with volt’s work because I dislike volt, I say it because there are licensing issues with his work.

If there were, then you'd be able to cite by rule and paragraph which laws are being broken. None of you have done so. Clearly, you only throw mud because you dislike Volt, not for any actual laws broken.

If you can't be honest and clear in a timeline, don't post it. Clearly you have more than a few errors there.

Yes, I'm a fallible human and I'm not afraid to admit it. The order of those parts wasn't important, and I think we both agree on that timeline anyway.

Order is important, otherwise it's not a timeline, except in the fictional sense. No I don't agree with your fictional timeline. It's deceptive.

This is more or less correct, and I haven't seen anybody claim otherwise (assuming "Unvanquished followers chose to fork the engine and create OpenWolf" is a mistake, and ignoring the silliness of "legitimate" naming), though I don't see how it is related to your point, and I think you're a bit confused about copyright law.

I think you're a bit confused about legalities and timelines. As you already admitted.

Yeah, that's kind of underhanded and dishonest.

No, it was practicality. When a bunch of good for nothing layabouts are wasting everyone's time, it's better to prepare to get rid of them. If a split is likely, then it's better to prepare for it. It's really foolish to do otherwise. What was dishonesty was displayed by all those people hanging about claiming title to being "developers" while doing nothing (or very little) to earn that title. What was also dishonest was when someone downloaded loads of files that raised critical security issues, legal issues, and then a whole gang of their mates decided to ignore these, and have continued to do so ever since.

The rest of the claims from you people are simply more storm-in-a-teacup nonsense.

All I asked was that you provide some evidence for your points. I think it's safe to assume that you have none.

I haven't seen any evidence to support the claims about license issues with OpenWolf nor with TremZ. I have not seen any citing of law being broken or license problems in OpenWolf nor in the TremZ game that uses it. It's safe to assume that most of the mud-slinging directed at TremZ is based on make believe and fictional dramas.

I do wonder at the claims of the Unvanquished mob's followers that Newton Physics works fine in their game, because it didn't on any of my tests of their game. Also, there's what TheDushan said about it;
I have read on Tremulous forum that Unvanquished will move away from Newton Dynamics and use Bullet Physics. They didnt tell that in their revision player and spectator can move through map objects. I can only assume that they cannot fix problem what they have in Newton Dynamics and because of that they will remove and replace it.
And I really strongly believe that they will just copy-paste Bullet Physics implementation from XreaL (or other) engine.

That's a bit of problem isn't it?

By the way, DevHC, learn the definition of "fork" in software development. It's clear that you failed to comprehend it.

-----------------

For the love of the god I don't believe in...

Shut up. All of you. With all the time that you guys have spent flaming each other, I could have finished my own Tremulous fork. Stop slinging political shit-bombs, and make your f***ing games!

Apologies for the disturbance. I rarely post here anyway. In TremZ we are too busy making our game. That's why almost nobody from TremZ bothers to counter all the distortions from the Unvanquished mob. Sorry again.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

I asked General Scott about it. His reply, "I was in a bad mood that morning, and I gave him permission to delete it because it was a ragetopic."

I cannot confirm that until he posts here.

[Qrntz]

People can debate quite rationally and clearly without trying to spam, troll, or act like idiots.

without trying to spam, troll, or act like idiots.

act like idiots.

Oh, sir. I apologize to inform you must immediately get the fuck out of this debate

[SamOz]

Thank you Qrntz. I'm sure you'll avoid such poor behaviour in future then.

[Sixthly]

What was also dishonest was when someone downloaded loads of files that raised critical security issues, legal issues, and then a whole gang of their mates decided to ignore these, and have continued to do so ever since.

I assume you are referring to the website backup that I made under the direction of the project head? Herp. I have logs of both volt and cron giving me permission to make backups at different points in time for different reasons. volt has still not withdrawn that permission. volt claimed to be a legal point of contact for the server (unless you disagree, in which case you will be calling him a liar).

volt's reason was he planned to delete everything and move it to another server behind everyone's back (dishonest).

cron's reason was so that we can get back up off of the ground (honest) after you stole our website (dishonest). Unfortunately HermXIV threatened legal action (more dishonesty) because he owned the server that was hosting our website so this did not go through.

Either way, I had permission from project heads of both teams. You are wrong by claiming this causes "critical" security issues and legal issues.

I rate your false accusations fail out of 10. Just more proof of your dishonesty. You are a very low human being.

Volt was the original project head, he became again the project head.

volt _was_ the project head, and he gave that position up. He still has not taken that position back because Ishq and cron have not given him it. You simply stole our website and claimed we forked and that he is the project head again. You are so concerned over legal process, so let's focus on this fact.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

sam0z, i am not related to the unvanquished team in any way.  i dislike the direction they are taking balance issues.  i'm actually back to waiting for 1.2.

i sincerely hope, however, that you wise up and stop taking bullets for volt.  he is really not worth it.

[/dev/humancontroller]

By the way, DevHC, learn the definition of "fork" in software development. It's clear that you failed to comprehend it.

WRONG. formally, both projects are branches of a fork, but i have stated the reason why i call OpenWolf&TremZ more of a fork (which most likely you didn't read).
by the definition on wikipedia:

In a fork, both parties assume nearly identical code bases, but typically only the larger group, or whoever controls the Web site, will retain the full original name and the associated user community.

in this case, the Daemon&TremZ/Unvanquished project retained the vast majority of the developers and the user community, but not the project name. the developers and the community are important, and the insignificant name-change can wipe my ass.
even more:

there is a reputation penalty associated with forking

which again suggests that OpenWolf&TremZ is the fork.
but all of this is irrelevant to the fact that OpenWolf&TremZ, be it a fork or not, is a failboat.

In TremZ we are too busy making our game.

WRONG. there are too few of you to actually make a game AND overwhelm these forums with crap at the same time (though you're making a very good job at the latter).

I don’t say that there are licensing issues with volt’s work because I dislike volt, I say it because there are licensing issues with his work.

If there were, then you'd be able to cite by rule and paragraph which laws are being broken. None of you have done so. Clearly, you only throw mud because you dislike Volt, not for any actual laws broken.

you are fucking retarded. every fucking jurisdiction has copyright law that protects work from being ripped off, stated in statues (in one language and wording or the other) or incorporated by case law.

I haven't seen any evidence to support the claims about license issues with OpenWolf nor with TremZ. I have not seen any citing of law being broken or license problems in OpenWolf nor in the TremZ game that uses it.

where the fuck have you been?

I think you're a bit confused about legalities and timelines.

i think you're a bit confused about everything in general.

[Err0r]

How I see Unvanquished is only good at creating drama and nothing else.

[KenuR]

SamOz, fuck you *trollface*

[Qrntz]

How I see Unvanquished is only good at creating drama and nothing else.

Hi Dustpan. You aren't too good at trying to appear like someone else, believe me.

[TheDushan]

I don't need to hide myself.

EDIT: While I am here, is there any way that we can stop all this flaming?

[CreatureofHell]

Everyone should give up and go back to bashing the Trem devs to make them give us 1.2

Those were the days...

[+ OPTIMUS +]

everyone must see that either unvanquished or trem or the mighty mercenaries guild are making efforts to get trem back to life and thats a noble cause. i like all these folks.
the drawback is that everyone is trying the chew on a fading community. in addition Volt is trying to forge a gravity gun of uncertain physics but his intentions are equally understandable.

i wouldnt mind if all  the treasures and drama would take place on these forums. with all  the models, huds, codes and whatnot. there is absolutely no need of trying to split the community.

[Qrntz]

I don't need to hide myself.

Well, you clearly do hide yourself without a reason then, simpleton.

[TheDushan]

And is there any way that we can stop all this flaming?

[1337-Kynes]

And is there any way that we can stop all this flaming?

The only winning move is not to play.