Author Topic: Parpax  (Read 76274 times)

ULTRA Random ViruS

  • Posts: 924
  • Turrets: +4/-101
    • ZdrytchX's reference website
Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2012, 09:27:25 am »
I loved the elevators. Please leave them as is.

E-Mxp

  • Posts: 722
  • Turrets: +27/-10
Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2012, 10:09:55 pm »
Wow man, I actually think you put more thought into this then most mapmakers!

CreatureofHell

  • Posts: 2422
  • Turrets: +430/-126
    • Tremtopia
Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2012, 06:01:25 pm »
Wow man, I actually think you put more thought into this then most mapmakers!

I didn't put any thought into this map either.
{NoS}StalKer
Quote
<Timbo> posting on the trem forums rarely results in anything good

Viech

  • Posts: 43
  • Turrets: +2/-0
Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2012, 09:36:06 am »
Some criticism from the game logs:

Quote from: Forty-Two
why wallwalk no work?
Tremulous doesn't allow wallwalk on entities and moving objects and the elevator obviously moves. I can do nothing about this. :(

Quote from: Ingar
there's some annoying noise
The background sound is currently registered as the maps "music" and some people have the same stucked sound issues as in the main menu (also the sound won't play if you disabled the menu music). I don't seem to get it working with a global speaker though, maybe you can advise me how these work on IRC?

Quote from: Ingar
something is wrong with that vent
I got in as mara earlier
Getting into vents with adv. mara is a little tricky but if I make the hole any bigger adv. goons can get in, too, and people will whine about their goons getting stuck. So I should probably leave the vents as a challenge.

Quote from: IPWNU
there are rets outside map :/
The rets you can see through the windows above the stairs don't work and don't steal BP. :P

Quote from: MoronicAcid
I don't like this map.
Again, as long as you say what exactly you dislike I can try to adjust things until everyone (or at least, most people) is happy with the design. So please be more specific about what bothers you!



Beta 3 is on its way and will be released soonTM but it will probably take some more days as I'm still busy redoing the human default and trying to exchange as many textures as possible with the goal to have an independent pk3 eventually (not in Beta 3, though).

/dev/humancontroller

  • Posts: 1033
  • Turrets: +1002/-383
Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2012, 11:50:10 am »
The background sound is currently registered as the maps "music" and some people have the same stucked sound issues as in the main menu (also the sound won't play if you disabled the menu music). I don't seem to get it working with a global speaker though
here's some crappy setup to play sound/announcements/reinforcement globally every second:
Code: [Select]
{
"classname" "target_speaker"
"noise" "sound/announcements/reinforcement"
"spawnflags" "4"
"targetname" "shootme"
}

{
"classname" "target_relay"
"targetname" "flip"
"target" "shootme"
}

{
"classname" "target_relay"
"targetname" "flop"
"target" "shootme"
}

{
"classname" "target_delay"
"targetname" "flip"
"target" "flop"
"wait" "1.0"
}

{
"classname" "target_delay"
"targetname" "flop"
"target" "flip"
"wait" "1.0"
}

{
"classname" "trigger_always"
"target" "flip"
}
in this, 2 target_delays are firing at eachother (1 activation per second), and, via target_relays, the target_speaker also gets activated every second, generating a global sound event. the loop is initiated with a trigger_always. note: events may be dropped due to a stream of lost snapshots (~300msec worth of lost snapshots at a critical moment).

however, how about different ambient sounds for different rooms?

PS: you're using a non-de-facto-standard directory: sounds (instead of sound).

Viech

  • Posts: 43
  • Turrets: +2/-0
Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2012, 02:26:28 pm »
here's some crappy setup to play sound/announcements/reinforcement globally every second:
I want a smooth, looping ambient sound, your setup is only good for recurring noises.

however, how about different ambient sounds for different rooms?
Makes sense for special rooms such as strange machine but how should the stairs or long hall sound? I'd like to have one global ambient sound. This should be possible without setting it as music, I just don't have it figured out yet.

PS: you're using a non-de-facto-standard directory: sounds (instead of sound).
Thank you, I fixed that.

/dev/humancontroller

  • Posts: 1033
  • Turrets: +1002/-383
Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2012, 04:48:28 pm »
here's some crappy setup to play sound/announcements/reinforcement globally every second:
I want a smooth, looping ambient sound, your setup is only good for recurring noises.
WRONG. if you want a very strict, constant sound with no 25-msec interruptions (on average, if modeled appropriately using an sv_fps setting of 20), then that particular setup is not acceptable. however, if you add some slight fluctuations to the volume of the ambient sound, then you can also add a quiet-down to the beginning and end of the ambient sound track, mitigating the possible 25-msec interruptions. also, if you add 2 constantly playing tracks (expanding on my method), with one track rewinding near the middle of the other, then the possible interruptions will be even less noticeable.
however, how about different ambient sounds for different rooms?
Makes sense for special rooms such as strange machine but how should the stairs or long hall sound?
wider rooms have deeper ambient sounds. rooms with more open access to other areas (ie., open doors) tend to sound more windy. other sound effects depend on the specialty of "props" in the room. but generally, nothing rules out one pair of rooms sounding equally.

to parts where electrical wires are visible, you can add some slight humming noise (i have no idea why). to parts where pipes can be seen, you can add a closed-waterflow sound, and perhaps a bubbling sound. to create areas with different feelings, you can even change the design of some areas: for example, you can add a slightly penetrated pipe to the staircase, and then add some water dripping sounds, and perhaps some particles.

take a look at the SnowValley map (map-snowvalley3-b2.pk3). that has 64 target_speakers.

Viech

  • Posts: 43
  • Turrets: +2/-0
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2012, 05:54:20 pm »
Beta 3 Changelog





  • The human default base has been replaced with a completely new room
  • Advanced marauders (and crouching humans) are now able to enter long hall via pipe shaft in order to defeat campy human bases there (thanks to Ingar)
  • Added "steps" in elevator shaft so goons can exit it (forgot hwo proposed this, sorry!)
  • Some textures have been replaced with the goal to have an independent .pk3 file eventually
  • A bug has been fixed which denied building in some regions in elevator room
  • A bug has been fixed that lead to humans surfing at the top of the elevator car (thanks to /dev/humancontroller)
  • A bug where the void was visible was fixed (/dev/humancontroller)
  • Leftover map regions (from Beta 1) have been removed
  • Lighting in short hall and long hall has been changed from entity based to shader based, lower storage (former name: front storage) will follow
  • The directory containing sounds is now named "sound" instead of "sounds" to comply with the standard layout (/dev/humancontroller)
  • The baked in turret model has been added to COPYING section
  • Removed the background sound as it was registered as the level's music which lead to annoying noises for some players. Background sounds might come back later on a per-room basis.
  • Some known lighting bugs (elevator) have NOT yet been fixed, these will go in a later release

I hope you enjoy the new human default! :)

Download links in the first post.

Ingar

  • Tremulous Developers
  • *
  • Posts: 554
  • Turrets: +302/-7
    • Ingar's projects on the Web
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2012, 10:02:13 pm »
Missing texture, the weird thing is I'm not getting any errors in the console.

Update:
The small red square light in the first screenshot is also missing, I'm running a server
with onlyt a few maps, the shader is probably referencing a texture from a different pk3.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 10:10:45 pm by Ingar »

Ingar

  • Tremulous Developers
  • *
  • Posts: 554
  • Turrets: +302/-7
    • Ingar's projects on the Web
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2012, 01:40:56 pm »
* Off-topic posts split into new thread *

Viech

  • Posts: 43
  • Turrets: +2/-0
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2012, 04:57:24 pm »
Missing texture, the weird thing is I'm not getting any errors in the console.
My goal is to have all textures included eventually but Beta 3 still uses 19 shaders/textures from atcs, karith, nexus6, niveus and tremor and from the directories displays and titan. The lamps that are missing in your screenshot are from atcs.
As long as the server has the 1.1 versions of these maps installed (which are installed on every client by default) everything should work but if the server is pure and doesn't have them installed (such as the official servers) players hwo haven't yet downloaded the GPP versions of the maps from the server will see a few "shader missing" textures.
I will continue replacing these textures (I already replaced/included a lot from Beta 2 to 3) and in a final release of my map, everything should be included in the pk3.

Ingar

  • Tremulous Developers
  • *
  • Posts: 554
  • Turrets: +302/-7
    • Ingar's projects on the Web
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2012, 05:01:12 pm »
The lamps that are missing in your screenshot are from atcs.

Makes sense, on my server I replaced atcs with atcshd.

ULTRA Random ViruS

  • Posts: 924
  • Turrets: +4/-101
    • ZdrytchX's reference website
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2012, 03:32:47 am »
Btw, in the next beta please make the crates smaller. Beta3's is very huge. I want them to be small enough for humans to jump on.
Also, if possible, make those cardboard boxes 'shoot through-able' because that would be somewhat more realistic :D

Viech

  • Posts: 43
  • Turrets: +2/-0
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2012, 02:14:15 pm »
Btw, in the next beta please make the crates smaller. Beta3's is very huge. I want them to be small enough for humans to jump on.
Can you explain which crates you mean? The only crates that you should be unable to jump on are those like the red one you see on both Beta 3 Changelog post screenshots. If you are unable to jump on any other barrel or crate please describe it or post a screenshot! This might be a fps-related issue then (in ioquake3 you can jump slightly higher with higher FPS). I will also consider making that single crate in the human default a little smaller so you can jump on it.

EDIT: It is a FPS issue. With \com_maxfps 125 you can jump on the red crate in human default, with \com_maxfps 60 you can't. I will make that create a little lower on the next release so everyone can get on top.

Also, if possible, make those cardboard boxes 'shoot through-able' because that would be somewhat more realistic :D
That was a quick texture replacement since the old texture was referenced from a default map pk3. I don't like these paperboxes (We are in the future after all!) and will rather look for a replacement.


Criticism from the game logs (Beta 2):

Quote from: |F/ Spider.
[the map is] too big imo
At first I thought it was a really small map. In the alpha phase we did successfull games with only 4 people and thought it would be an ideal map for 6-12 players. Then many people in the public beta said it was a huge and maze-like map which did confuse me a little as I already removed the emergency exit and shortened the ventilation shafts from Beta 1 to Beta 2 and thought it was pretty straightforward now. In fact, I have a really bad sense for navigation and had a hard time to learn maps such as niveus but from a mappers perspective, when you look on blueprints of your map every day, the layout burns into your head. I think as soon as you get to know the layout the map will feel much smaller to you, too. Have a look on the gameflow chart:



Like on many other trem maps I decided to have two main passages between the default bases. It's the stairs and the elevator. Small aliens and humans with jetpack can also use the ventilation shafts. Aliens are on the upper floor, humans on the lower floor, so it should be easy to recognize if you are on enemy territory. Speaking the floors, they look way different but are pretty alike. Both the human's and alien's base have a lobby, called lower storage and upper storage respectively. These lobbys connect to all ways that lead up/down and are designed to be the main combat areas. Having control over its own and the enemies lobby shall be crucial for winning the game. On both floors, there's two main pathes that lead into the respective base. One (the main entrance) runs directly through the lobby, the other runs next to it. Both default bases have a weakness built in which again rewards small aliens and jetpacked humans: Small aliens (dretch, normal basi, normal marauder) can enter the human's base through the pipe shafts. These are fairly easy to secure with one well placed turret at each of the two shafts (in Beta 3, you don't need a repeater anymore and one of the default turrets already seals of one of them pretty well). The aliens base has a weakness which is a little harder to seal: Humans equipped with a jetpack and a grenade can fly on the two pipes that run inside the base and drop a grenade right inside its heart. While campy tyrants can just look up and cry about this, the hole in the strange machine also has an advantage for the aliens: It enables them to intercept attackers at the main entrance from above. Also it's the fastest way in and out of the alien base.

I agree that the stairs path is a little too long compared to the elevator. Beta 3's new human default has the nodes closer to the stairs (next to the side entrance) to compensate for this but I doubt that I can make the path itself much shorter. I'll try it though.


EDIT: Beta 3 is now online on the official servers.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 06:48:53 pm by Viech »

/dev/humancontroller

  • Posts: 1033
  • Turrets: +1002/-383
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2012, 11:44:57 pm »
in ioquake3 you can jump slightly higher with higher FPS
WRONG. in Q3/ioq3/Tremulous/etc., there are magic FPS numbers that yield (locally) optimal jump heights. For example, 333fps yields a very high height, but 500fps yields a very low height.
official
(TM)

Viech

  • Posts: 43
  • Turrets: +2/-0
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2012, 01:59:50 pm »
I had two matches on GPP US1 yesterday (Game Log 1, Game Log 2). I think it's now time to have a closer look on balancing and gameplay.

My impression is that while the default bases are on a good way to be balanced now (the former human default was a playground for aliens), humans still have a harder time getting close to the enemy base. That makes sense since in Beta 2, even if humans were stronger, aliens could often force a tie by camping the upper floor. My goal is clearly to make games more aggressive and move battlezones closer to the default bases, especially to the alien's.

Some improvement ideas have been proposed ingame, especially by Menace and naboo (thank you!). I assembled a list of changes I currently do and don't consider. Please discuss them.

  • I will probably make the elevator much faster, so that intercepting humans in the car isn't as easy anymore. The elevator shall become a real path, currently it's rather a deathtrap for humans while aliens don't dare using it since there's less dangerous paths available to them.
  • I'm thinking about allowing Battlesuits to exit the ventilation shafts when they fall into them. This will reduce frustration and enable them to flee if they have enough hp to survive the drop.
  • It has been proposed to make corridors wider in favor of humans. I'm not sure how that is supposed to help them. I need more opinions on this matter: Please explain why you think wider corridors will or won't support attacking humans.
  • I've been asked to add a completely new path between the floors. While this is possible it would have a rather unpredictable impact so I need more brainstorming on this. That path would probably connect the side entrance of human default (long hall) to the side entrance of alien default (unnamed hall). This will most definitely make it harder for aliens to camp the upper floor while it could also enable them to rush the human base more easily. I'd need to make up a path that enables humans to go up fast and it shouldn't be a second elevator.
  • I am not going to switch the default bases. That would be a completely different map and all thought I put in it before would be wasted. I need fast paths for humans to move vertical instead. Even though niveus isn't too balanced people love to play it despite the fact that aliens are above humans. What can I learn from niveus/karith?
  • Speaking karith, there was a request for more open regions. Maybe the new path should be an outdoor area or a room such as karith's stack? Also what would you think about merging stairs entry and stairs into one big room with the ability for humans to shoot at the stairs and jetpack up more easily?

Apart from the input received here I need a lot more gameplay testing to get a feeling for different situations. So even if you currently think your favorite team has the disadvantage, please see it as a challenge at this point in time and help me evaluate possible improvements!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 02:10:30 pm by Viech »

ULTRA Random ViruS

  • Posts: 924
  • Turrets: +4/-101
    • ZdrytchX's reference website
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2012, 11:46:10 am »
Sorry i found the reason for me not being able to jump on it:
http://www.funender.com/quake/articles/fps.html
Basically, my fps wasn't at a optimum rate which allows me to step jump onto it. Its like the citadel erm... whatever you call it. Its a little square ledge in the human base if you know what i'm talking about.
edit: I didn't know you already had mentioned it... *facepalm for the 233th time*
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 12:42:54 pm by ULTRA Random ViruS »

RAKninja-Decepticon

  • Posts: 843
  • Turrets: +14/-679
    • Stupid Videos
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2012, 08:54:04 pm »
suggestion: design around default settings, not settings that yield "magic" results.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 08:55:51 pm by RAKninja-Decepticon »
Note 4: The best, although not always easiest, way to deal with trolls is thus: do not respond at ALL in the thread.
Main Rules
4.) No spamming or advertising (includes useless multi-posts and bumps.)
6b.) Do NOT harass other members.
  6c.) Do NOT troll!

/dev/humancontroller

  • Posts: 1033
  • Turrets: +1002/-383
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2012, 12:19:30 am »
suggestion: design around default settings, not settings that yield "magic" results.
suggestion: the default settings are BUG(TM)ed; fix the settings. but the real fact is that the gamelogic is bugged.

Viech

  • Posts: 43
  • Turrets: +2/-0
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2012, 02:59:19 pm »
suggestion: design around default settings, not settings that yield "magic" results.
EDIT: It is a FPS issue. With \com_maxfps 125 you can jump on the red crate in human default, with \com_maxfps 60 you can't. I will make that create a little lower on the next release so everyone can get on top.



If you think you have a slight understanding of tremulous gameplay/map layouting: Please discuss the changes I posted above! I need some input before I can start making major changes to the map. Beta 3 feels more balanced to me than the previous Betas but since the human default doesn't suck anymore and aliens cannot constantly rush, the map clearly has a camping issue (Tyrant in stairs, Greeting committees on both ends of the elevator, Mara/Goon/Rant at the upper end of the vertical ventilation shafts, ...). Currently I plan to make the elevator much faster and design another path between the floors but what about the stairs and the ventilation shafts? Can they be made more attack-friendly and less camping-prone?

RAKninja-Decepticon

  • Posts: 843
  • Turrets: +14/-679
    • Stupid Videos
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2012, 12:10:04 am »
suggestion: design around default settings, not settings that yield "magic" results.
EDIT: It is a FPS issue. With \com_maxfps 125 you can jump on the red crate in human default, with \com_maxfps 60 you can't. I will make that create a little lower on the next release so everyone can get on top.


it was a suggestion for future work, not just a comment on this one aspect.  i was suggesting you keep a default client with default settings so that you can test your work on it, rather than only testing the config you use yourself.
Note 4: The best, although not always easiest, way to deal with trolls is thus: do not respond at ALL in the thread.
Main Rules
4.) No spamming or advertising (includes useless multi-posts and bumps.)
6b.) Do NOT harass other members.
  6c.) Do NOT troll!

ULTRA Random ViruS

  • Posts: 924
  • Turrets: +4/-101
    • ZdrytchX's reference website
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2012, 12:50:08 pm »
suggestion: design around default settings, not settings that yield "magic" results.
EDIT: It is a FPS issue. With \com_maxfps 125 you can jump on the red crate in human default, with \com_maxfps 60 you can't. I will make that create a little lower on the next release so everyone can get on top.


it was a suggestion for future work, not just a comment on this one aspect.  i was suggesting you keep a default client with default settings so that you can test your work on it, rather than only testing the config you use yourself.
Make it so its jump-able with 20 fps plz. My com_maxfps is set to 76, but my fps never goes above ~60 on gpp. On my older computer, it was worse. It hardly went above 35 on "detailed" maps like yours.

Viech

  • Posts: 43
  • Turrets: +2/-0
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2012, 01:24:45 pm »
I have to learn for an upcoming test, so I don't have much time for mapping in the next weeks. However, here is what I've currently planned for Beta 4:

  • The elevator will move much faster
  • I will add a new path which is going to be independent of the current regions. It will connect long hall to unnamed hall and thus be a direct connection of the secondary entrances of both default bases.
  • Both the lower and upper floor are too open which rewards camping. I will close the path from upper storage to unnamed hall and the path from lower storage to lower fork. lower fork, dome room and stairs entry might be redone in order to make the path to the stairs shorter.
  • I already replaced a lot of textures, Beta 4 will only depend on a few exterior resources, if any
  • Human players will be able to jump on all boxes, regardless of their FPS

illwieckz

  • Posts: 3
  • Turrets: +0/-0
    • Unvanquished
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2012, 08:23:54 pm »
Hi Viech, thanks for your map Parpax !
I found several bugs in your map.

At one point you can see through the ceiling :
http://postimage.org/image/4bqwkalkr/

And it seems to be missing a texture on the decorative turrets (when played using Unvanquished) :
http://postimage.org/image/kc43vz9z7/
It is best seen using legacy renderer, because the missing textures are more discreet with XreaL based engine.


RAKninja-Decepticon

  • Posts: 843
  • Turrets: +14/-679
    • Stupid Videos
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2012, 08:48:17 pm »
Hi Viech, thanks for your map Parpax !
I found several bugs in your map.

At one point you can see through the ceiling :
http://postimage.org/image/4bqwkalkr/

And it seems to be missing a texture on the decorative turrets (when played using Unvanquished) :
http://postimage.org/image/kc43vz9z7/
It is best seen using legacy renderer, because the missing textures are more discreet with XreaL based engine.



the missing textures were addressed.

the baked-in ret models have missing textures.
I can't reproduce that on a clean installation (no additional pk3's) of GPP. Could you give more information on your setup?
binary: (slightly modified version of) r2272 of GPP
basepath: 1.1.0 pk3s (minus vms-1.1.0.pk3)
homepath: data-gppr2223.pk3, map-parpax-b01.pk3, zzzz-vms-r2272+amp.pk3
My installation wasn't as clean as I told you, I just found out that the model I'm using (models/buildables/mgturret/mgturret.md3) is included in data-radiant-1.1.0.pk3. I will try to fix that issue with the next release.

my thoughts on the map (which i shared with you, viech, but will state here for reiteration):

the walls are not flat enough.  please make the walls less decorative and more functional.  i noticed that you have indeed managed to keep a wall functionally flat while preserving detail.  i suggest you do this to every wall (and ceiling) you wish to decorate.  walls that are not conducive to wallwalk are a pet peeve of mine.

elevator needs a new button sound, the current one is too close to the luci overcharge warning.  for comparison, imagine a door that made the first .2 sec of a tyrant's roar, and the effect it would have on a human using it.

the corridors are a bit wide, though this mainly seems due to how the walls are concave.

there are a few corridors that are quite long and straight, with no cover, no doors, and no twists to them.  that should be changed, somehow.  cover can be added, or doors, or bends - think the atcs hallway.

  • It has been proposed to make corridors wider in favor of humans. I'm not sure how that is supposed to help them. I need more opinions on this matter: Please explain why you think wider corridors will or won't support attacking humans.
wider corridors means more room to dodge goons and rants.  wider corridors also mean being able to stay out of range of wallwalking aliens.  more room to avoid luci selfdamage, as well.

pretty much anything you can list as an advantage for a human in a large, open, room also applies to large, open, halls.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 08:57:52 pm by RAKninja-Decepticon »
Note 4: The best, although not always easiest, way to deal with trolls is thus: do not respond at ALL in the thread.
Main Rules
4.) No spamming or advertising (includes useless multi-posts and bumps.)
6b.) Do NOT harass other members.
  6c.) Do NOT troll!

Viech

  • Posts: 43
  • Turrets: +2/-0
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2012, 04:13:36 pm »
At one point you can see through the ceiling :
http://postimage.org/image/4bqwkalkr/

And it seems to be missing a texture on the decorative turrets (when played using Unvanquished) :
http://postimage.org/image/kc43vz9z7/
It is best seen using legacy renderer, because the missing textures are more discreet with XreaL based engine.
The turrets will probably disappear at some point, definitely with later releases targeting XreaL. The first bug isn't my fault, it's based on the way the engine handles skyboxes. Whatever gets rendered from your perspective (which is not only what you can see but usually slightly more) can be seen through the skybox. I'd need to build an outside area that lays before the visible regions. Since the dome at the stairs is just a detail, building such an area is of low priority to me but might be done at some point if I manage to keep the impact on performance very low.

the walls are not flat enough.  please make the walls less decorative and more functional.  i noticed that you have indeed managed to keep a wall functionally flat while preserving detail.  i suggest you do this to every wall (and ceiling) you wish to decorate.  walls that are not conducive to wallwalk are a pet peeve of mine.
Most walls are already clipped flat, like the grated walls at Long Hall or the pillars in human default. Having flat walls (clipping wise) is of high priority to me so if you still find areas that are hard to wallwalk or create artifacts in perspective with wallwalk speed on instant just tell me the room names and I will see what I can do to improve it. I will also have a closer look on clipping myself. I usually hide clips in the editor and sometimes I change geometry and forget about adjusting them so that's a common cause for bad clipping.

elevator needs a new button sound, the current one is too close to the luci overcharge warning.  for comparison, imagine a door that made the first .2 sec of a tyrant's roar, and the effect it would have on a human using it.
Noted, I see if I can record a fitting sound. It has to be alarming since the doors off the elevator are crushers (that's because you could kill the ele's logic by reversing door movement if you managed to block them for some time - it's not just pure sadism).

the corridors are a bit wide, though this mainly seems due to how the walls are concave.
What corridors are too wide? I think as long as they help humans getting close to the alien base in one piece they should stay as they are unless the next beta manages to flip balancing.

there are a few corridors that are quite long and straight, with no cover, no doors, and no twists to them.  that should be changed, somehow.  cover can be added, or doors, or bends - think the atcs hallway.
This is planned for Unnamed Hall. I like Long Hall as it is. It's human biased (which is generally a bad idea for a corridor so close to the human default as it supports camping) but as human default is still very rushable and Long Hall will get extended in order to create a new path between the floors in favor of the humans that seems OK to me. I'm not sure about Ventilation Hall and the vents.


Thank you both for input!

/dev/humancontroller

  • Posts: 1033
  • Turrets: +1002/-383
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2012, 05:53:14 pm »

ULTRA Random ViruS

  • Posts: 924
  • Turrets: +4/-101
    • ZdrytchX's reference website
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #57 on: September 16, 2012, 06:27:23 am »
I found a major bug:
Without parpax in my /base (or /gpp) folder, trem gpp works fine. But when i put it in, (gpp has it on their server), trem can't seem to find data-1.1.0.pk3. When i take it back out, it works fine.

Viech

  • Posts: 43
  • Turrets: +2/-0
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2012, 11:22:47 am »
I found a major bug:
Without parpax in my /base (or /gpp) folder, trem gpp works fine. But when i put it in, (gpp has it on their server), trem can't seem to find data-1.1.0.pk3. When i take it back out, it works fine.

I have no idea how this could possbibly happen. Parpax' pk3 just contains the usual stuff:
Code: [Select]
.
|-- levelshots
|   `-- parpax.jpg
|-- maps
|   |-- parpax.bsp
|   |-- parpax-builder.navMesh
|   |-- parpax-builderupg.navMesh
|   |-- parpax-human_base.navMesh
|   |-- parpax-human_bsuit.navMesh
|   |-- parpax-level0.navMesh
|   |-- parpax-level1.navMesh
|   |-- parpax-level1upg.navMesh
|   |-- parpax-level2.navMesh
|   |-- parpax-level2upg.navMesh
|   |-- parpax-level3.navMesh
|   |-- parpax-level3upg.navMesh
|   |-- parpax-level4.navMesh
|   `-- parpax.map
|-- parpax.txt
|-- scripts
|   |-- parpax.arena
|   |-- parpax_custom.shader
|   |-- parpax_evillair.shader
|   `-- parpax.particle
|-- sound
|   `-- parpax
|       |-- beep.wav
|       |-- crane.wav
|       |-- elevator_stop.wav
|       |-- elevator.wav
|       `-- humming.wav
`-- textures
    |-- parpax_custom
    |   |-- bulb_yellow1.tga
    |   |-- elebutton_down.blend.tga
    |   |-- elebutton_go.blend.tga
    |   |-- elebutton_go.tga
    |   |-- elebutton.tga
    |   |-- elebutton_up.blend.tga
    |   |-- emergencyexit.tga
    |   `-- emergencyexit.xcf
    |-- parpax_evillair
    |   |-- e6basegrt_smll.jpg
    |   |-- e6boltstrip.jpg
    |   |-- e6bsegrtflr256.tga
    |   |-- e6c_floor.jpg
    |   |-- e6cyb0rpipes.jpg
    |   |-- e6dmetal.jpg
    |   |-- e6drstmetal_b.jpg
    |   |-- e6drstmetal.jpg
    |   |-- e6dtrimnd.jpg
    |   |-- e6girdergrate.tga
    |   |-- e6grate2_flr_b.tga
    |   |-- e6grtfloorceil.tga
    |   |-- e6holestrip.tga
    |   |-- e6h_support.tga
    |   |-- e6metalfan_blade.tga
    |   |-- e6metalfan.tga
    |   |-- e6panelsym.jpg
    |   |-- e6q3support.jpg
    |   |-- e6simpwallsupp.jpg
    |   |-- e6simpwallsupp_red.jpg
    |   |-- e6tdoor_fx.tga
    |   |-- e6tdoor.tga
    |   |-- e6tekmtlrflr.jpg
    |   |-- e6tinylight_blend.jpg
    |   |-- e6tinylight.jpg
    |   |-- e6wallsupprt.jpg
    |   |-- e6xgratebasic_b.tga
    |   |-- e6xgratebasic.tga
    |   |-- e6x_supprt.tga
    |   |-- e8_base1b.jpg
    |   |-- e8_base1c.jpg
    |   |-- e8_base1.jpg
    |   |-- e8basictrim_blue.jpg
    |   |-- e8basictrim_red.jpg
    |   |-- e8beam01b.jpg
    |   |-- e8beam01.jpg
    |   |-- e8beam02.jpg
    |   |-- e8bolttrim.jpg
    |   |-- e8_btrim01b.jpg
    |   |-- e8_btrim01.jpg
    |   |-- e8_btrim02.jpg
    |   |-- e8_btrim03b.jpg
    |   |-- e8_btrim04b.jpg
    |   |-- e8_btrim05.jpg
    |   |-- e8cretefloor02.jpg
    |   |-- e8cretesmlltrim.jpg
    |   |-- e8mtltrim1b.jpg
    |   |-- e8_mtlwall1.jpg
    |   |-- e8_mtlwall2.jpg
    |   |-- e8_mtlwall3.jpg
    |   |-- e8_mtlwall4.jpg
    |   |-- e8smlltrim1.jpg
    |   |-- e8support02.jpg
    |   |-- e8support05.jpg
    |   |-- e8support06b.jpg
    |   |-- e8trimlight.blend.jpg
    |   |-- e8trimlight.jpg
    |   |-- e8warning128.jpg
    |   |-- e8warning256.jpg
    |   |-- e8xgirder.tga
    |   |-- eq2_32cap.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_32caplight.blend.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_32caplight.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_baselt03b.blend.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_baselt03b_blue.blend.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_baselt03b_blue.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_baselt03b.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_baselt03_blue.blend.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_baselt03_blue.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_bigmet_01.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_bmtl_01.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_bmtl_02_384.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_bmtl_02.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_bmtl_02up.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_bmtl_03.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_bmtl_03_light.blend.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_bmtl_03_light.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_bmtl_08.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_bmtl.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_bouncefan.tga
    |   |-- eq2_bounce.tga
    |   |-- eq2_fbase.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_fgrate_01.tga
    |   |-- eq2_floor_02.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_floor_04.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_floor_05.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_floor_06b.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_grate_01.tga
    |   |-- eq2_stepside_01.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_stepsidelight.blend.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_stepsidelight.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trim_02.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimh_01.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimh_03cc.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimh_03c.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimh_03d.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimh_03e.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimlight_01s.blend.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimlight_01s.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_00.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_01b.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_02.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_04.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_05b.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_05.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_10b.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_11d.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_11.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_12b.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_lite.blend.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_lite.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_mini02b.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_mini02.jpg
    |   |-- eq2_trimv_mini.jpg
    |   `-- eq2_wire.jpg
    |-- parpax_philipk
    |   |-- her_asphalt_1.jpg
    |   |-- mazfloor2.jpg
    |   |-- mazy_ofloor1.jpg
    |   |-- mazy_owall1f.jpg
    |   |-- mazy_plate1a.jpg
    |   |-- mazy_plate1b.jpg
    |   |-- mis_generic1b.jpg
    |   |-- mod_comwall1a.jpg
    |   |-- mod_comwall1b.jpg
    |   |-- mod_labfloor01a.jpg
    |   |-- mod_labtrim2a.jpg
    |   |-- mod_labtrim8a.jpg
    |   |-- mod_metdoor2.jpg
    |   |-- pkf_containr1b.jpg
    |   |-- pkf_containr1c.jpg
    |   |-- pkf_containr2b.jpg
    |   |-- pkf_containr2c.jpg
    |   |-- pkf_containr3b.jpg
    |   |-- pkf_containr3c.jpg
    |   |-- pkw_barrel02a.jpg
    |   `-- pkw_barrel02b.jpg
    `-- parpax_ydnar
        |-- base_grooved.tga
        |-- base_verts.tga
        |-- blackwall.tga
        |-- cement_2_yellow.tga
        |-- cement_3.tga
        |-- concrete-pit-rows.tga
        |-- flat_dk.tga
        |-- metal-dark.tga
        |-- metal-red.tga
        |-- metal-tan-rivets.tga
        |-- road-1.tga
        `-- rust_1.tga

Maybe you have reached some engine limit: Number of pk3s, number of loaded shaders, ...
You should post a console dump and tell a developer about the issue.

/dev/humancontroller

  • Posts: 1033
  • Turrets: +1002/-383
Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2012, 05:29:08 am »
I found a major bug
congratulations, you've found yourself !