PPNL's bot

[naboo]

Virus i'll put it even more plainly for forum whores like you: i don't give a fuck if ppnl's skills are even lower than mine or if they are up there on the top (if you actually tried to read what i posted instead of spamming useless crap, you should have digested that ppnl's apparent skill has been changing dramatically over time. seven months back he was playing on something that looked close to dracone's level).

Again in case this hasn't yet sinked in: i am not interested in whether he (or anybody else) can do a nice killstreak in a frag video, if they are really good in this game or if they just suck. I base my accusation on the patterns of an aimbot i claim is present in these demos, and if you don't feel comfortable having to watch for these moments before concluding about their validity, then i suggest you go spam another thread to cure your boredom.


I really just get tired of your attitude...
- meany internet tough guy

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

Virus i'll put it even more plainly for forum whores like you: i don't give a fuck if ppnl's skills are even lower than mine or if they are up there on the top (if you actually tried to read what i posted instead of spamming useless crap, you should have digested that ppnl's apparent skill has been changing dramatically over time. seven months back he was playing on something that looked close to dracone's level).

Again in case this hasn't yet sinked in: i am not interested in whether he (or anybody else) can do a nice killstreak in a frag video, if they are really good in this game or if they just suck. I base my accusation on the patterns of an aimbot i claim is present in these demos, and if you don't feel comfortable having to watch for these moments before concluding about their validity, then i suggest you go spam another thread to cure your boredom.


I really just get tired of your attitude...
- meany internet tough guy

seven months ago you say? that was right before my enforced hiatus, and ive never noticed him play better than, say, virus.  then again, im not in trem 24 hours a day.

i also think you are seriously misinterpreting virus.  whatever is furthest from "internet tough guy" is virus.  unless you were saying you were the tough guy.  if so, disregard this, i have no further comment.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

seven months ago you say? that was right before my enforced hiatus, and ive never noticed him play better than, say, virus.  then again, im not in trem 24 hours a day.

i also think you are seriously misinterpreting virus.  whatever is furthest from "internet tough guy" is virus.  unless you were saying you were the tough guy.  if so, disregard this, i have no further comment.

I have a low comprehensive ability so i didn't understand most of the stuff you said.
Btw, i don't trem 24 hours either. I do less than an hour on trem a day average, and i consider that a lot.

With ppnl's skill 'varying a lot', it's probably luck. Some days i can get up to 50+kills while only 5 deaths when not even playing seriously, and when playing seriously i can feed a lot. An example is when i'm versing PaN-16 which is my top nemesis. Most of the time when i kill him is from pure luck, as i wasn't used to lagged at all, and his dodging skills are superior in comparison to mine. Then again when i play casual on gpp, i tend to feed a lot when there are lots of players playing. I'm more suited to small compact games.

PPNL's skill may vary, but it doesn't vary much. He's probably reached his max potential on US officials when you see him. Or maybe when you see him, he sees you as a feeder and feeds of you. It's like me and templar from aussie assault. I think templar's aim is good, in comparison to mine especially, but my ability to play againts him kinda boosts with his existance on the other team. Btw, i don't think templar plays gpp.

[naboo]

I do take all you say here into account but it is not really relevant for this problem.
If you or anybody else care to report back on my observations (and especially from demo#7) i would however be very interested.

That is why i made this 'thread'. 

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

If you or anybody else care to report back on my observations (and especially from demo#7) i would however be very interested.

I watched this one, it did seem like aimbot, but i don't know any aimbot that aims at the head, and does not aim at dead bodies.
He would've probably deleted it if he used it, because a majority of people who i know to have some sort of botting system didn't like them because it was too suspicious. But i don't think 100% this is a bot. I'm sure a crappy one like funlily [i think thats what its called] would do a better job.
Try this: Record a few minutes, then tell him right at his face 'I've caught you!' or something like that, see if his skill decreases dramatically.
There are japanese people who play tetris with such low reaction time it can be seen as hacks. Just youtube it - make sure you find one that shows the actual human as well.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

I have a low comprehensive ability so i didn't understand most of the stuff you said.
Btw, i don't trem 24 hours either. I do less than an hour on trem a day average, and i consider that a lot.

With ppnl's skill 'varying a lot', it's probably luck. Some days i can get up to 50+kills while only 5 deaths when not even playing seriously, and when playing seriously i can feed a lot. An example is when i'm versing PaN-16 which is my top nemesis. Most of the time when i kill him is from pure luck, as i wasn't used to lagged at all, and his dodging skills are superior in comparison to mine. Then again when i play casual on gpp, i tend to feed a lot when there are lots of players playing. I'm more suited to small compact games.

PPNL's skill may vary, but it doesn't vary much. He's probably reached his max potential on US officials when you see him. Or maybe when you see him, he sees you as a feeder and feeds of you. It's like me and templar from aussie assault. I think templar's aim is good, in comparison to mine especially, but my ability to play againts him kinda boosts with his existance on the other team. Btw, i don't think templar plays gpp.

ppnl feeds me, he does not feed from me.  much the same way you feed me.  but you both put up a decent struggle and can indeed kill me if i'm not careful, which is almost always.

if you dont understand what i am saying, just ask for clarification, i will be glad to provide it.

I do take all you say here into account but it is not really relevant for this problem.
If you or anybody else care to report back on my observations (and especially from demo#7) i would however be very interested.

That is why i made this 'thread'. 

sorry, was just shooting the breeze.

i have not watched the demos (i'm always strapped for time) but i have played against ppnl quite a bit over the months.  in my opinion, if he is indeed using a bot, it should not be questionable, but extremely obvious, given his base skill.

barring the quiet release of some super-advanced bot.  developing such for q3/trem would be laughable, excepting its use as some computer science project.  you know, the kind for a grade.

[naboo]

I watched this one, it did seem like aimbot, but i don't know any aimbot that aims at the head, and does not aim at dead bodies.

I've seen plenty of both kinds, however 1.1 is where i mainly see dead bodies getting targeted.
As for the rest, this is exactly what i wanted, your opinion about what you saw in the demo, thoughts etc. Also people who call out a botter may screw themselves over if they do it too early (or without securing a good demo). Generally a bad idea imo.

i have not watched the demos (i'm always strapped for time) but i have played against ppnl quite a bit over the months.  in my opinion, if he is indeed using a bot, it should not be questionable, but extremely obvious, given his base skill.

barring the quiet release of some super-advanced bot.  developing such for q3/trem would be laughable, excepting its use as some computer science project.  you know, the kind for a grade.

I understand, but if you have some spare time to challenge that idea feel free.
Also the "super advanced bot" is already ageing. Links will not be provided 

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

ppnl feeds me, he does not feed from me.  much the same way you feed me.  but you both put up a decent struggle and can indeed kill me if i'm not careful, which is almost always.

You talkin' to me? (or naboo?)
Anyway, when i join a lower ping server, my skills dramatically increase same way as ppnl's and other americans decrease when he joins asia server.
Recently i found out why europeans get lower pings than americans on there though, wogomo said there's good connection or something.

@naboo
Also, it's clever how it locks onto one guy, even when a few humans block the path. From what i've seen, nullyfy targets closest human, and that uhh... triggerbot-aimbot fusion, forgot whats it called... i honestly have never seen that one work. A person showed me what it looks like but it turned out to be screwy like they throw their guns in the air 100 times a second etc... [that's exaggeration btw]

edit: this reminds me; do you guys know a guy named fuma? He used to code the bots for his CoW qvm and now codes the bots for unvanquished. The 1.1 CoW bots behaved similar when they are put on maximum skill, except they still target closest human.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

I understand, but if you have some spare time to challenge that idea feel free.
Also the "super advanced bot" is already ageing. Links will not be provided 

yea, just as soon as i get some decent demo binds.  that's another thing holding me back

but there exists a bot of that complexity in q3?  you would think bot designers would target games with, you know, active populations.  not that i doubt your word.  it's kind of a shame something as intricate as that gets coded up.  just think if that effort and those resources that went into development of the bot went into development of something actually useful for "fair play".  like , say, offline bot-players to allow a single player skirmish.  (i do know such exist, but from all accounts they are primitive and simplistic)

You talkin' to me? (or naboo?)
Anyway, when i join a lower ping server, my skills dramatically increase same way as ppnl's and other americans decrease when he joins asia server.
Recently i found out why europeans get lower pings than americans on there though, wogomo said there's good connection or something.

i was indeed talking to you, this is why i quoted you above that text.

ping is not everything.  for example, i notice no difference in my own perceptions of my skill vs anyone else when playing us1 as opposed to eu1.  for me, that is a difference of 100-150 ping.  i get absurdly low ping to us1 (right around 30 ms most days) and fairly "decent" ping to eu1, 150-200.

when playing eu1, the  same players i consider easy kills remain easy kills, and the ones i consider to be threats remain threats.  if anything, it seems to help me, playing eu1, i get shot through walls (due to unlagged) a lot less.  i suspect that if i played human, i'd notice i was getting chomped from 30 feet away a lot less as well.  but that all is discussion for another topic, one bitching about unlagged or something.

i do not know my ping to servers in asia, though i suspect they will be in the 150-300 range.  at 300 ping, i DO notice a difference, both good and bad.  i get shot through geometry a lot more often, and i am able to pull off a lot more 30 foot chomps.  oh, and i have next to no chance hitting anything with a MD. 

[naboo]

yea, just as soon as i get some decent demo binds.  that's another thing holding me back

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=8039.0
Grab the code you want from lava's first post, place in a demo.cfg (in the folder with your other .cfg's), bind F6 exec demo.cfg. Done.

Also i have F7 bounded to /r_showtris, makes it very easy.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

yea, just as soon as i get some decent demo binds.  that's another thing holding me back

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=8039.0
Grab the code you want from lava's first post, place in a demo.cfg (in the folder with your other .cfg's), bind F6 exec demo.cfg. Done.

Also i have F7 bounded to /r_showtris, makes it very easy.

ive seen that post, i'd have to extensively modify the cfg to keys i like, as i do not quite like his selections.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

~ping stuff~

I get to experiance pings ranging from 70 - 500+. [I have once got less than that, but it was in 2008, and i had no idea wth unlagged was at the time, and nor it existed on the server)
I get pings between 100-400 from asia unofficials (it ranges for some reason, something to do with wogo's internet, which apparently has 'good connection to euro')
Then 300+ are american and euro servers are 380+.

I notice quite a massive difference in pings between the following:

Code: [Select]

70-150 - Projectilenudge becomes visable, unlagged tends to start going inaccurate,

150-250 - Significant change for goon pounce (the effect of warping with pounce hits starts triggering) and dretch bite starts being inaccurate, charge becomes hard to use

250-300 ping - charge no longer works for me if the human dodges,

//Below here is what i experiance everyday

250-350 - Significant aiming behind thing, i'm still not used to it, tyrant charge justs makes me go through humans rather than push them, md starts having side effects like you mentioned, tesla recoil becomes difficult to tolerate, especially when getting zapped by more than one

380+ (euro) - I have to aim ahead quite a bit (maybe about 2 dretches ahead if the dretch is travelling straight), pounce hardly registers, lucifercannon goes through aliens rather than hit them when aliens move, buildables make me warp such as a simple action of jumping over one to get in/out of the base, charge does not even work, i collide but only the first hit 'hits', and even if the human is stationary, it [b]won't hit[/b] after that, and i'm more likely to warp into him and go 'through him' and warp back a million times

450+ - Bugger all, i might as well build only...

650+ - (Greenland servers, they don't exist anymore) - It becomes increasingly difficult to just simply get out of the human base


i'd have to extensively modify the cfg to keys i like, as i do not quite like his selections.

My numberpad doesn't even work like a numberpad. It's like a set of useless keys that are unbind-able. Only thing that works is the enter key... which i don't bind

[naboo]

Ok, you two posting here (along with me replying) have taken up about 80% percent of this thread and only like 10% of that is actually related to it. I'm asking you again to just drop it or take it somewhere else, i don't want this to be like the ordinary thread because although abuse claims and whatnot are important, this is the first time anybody seriously brought an aimbot complain to the forum (at least as far as i have looked back).

Just to satisfy the focus of your last post, I have specked ppnl plenty on both EU and US1 server, both when the aimbot was very likely on and when it was possibly on but harder to see (recent times), and it was just as useful on both servers.
I think this is what those extrapolation formulas are for (though i could be wrong on that).


Lastly, i want feedback, but i want it to be on topic.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

Try telling him to set cg_unlagged 0. I'm pretty sure no aimbots actually aim ahead in accordance to ping so this trick should work.
As for more evidence for myself, i will gather them myself when i have the time.
Despite all the evidence here, i cannot find similar evidence. Until i see for myself, i'll probably won't believe.
Do /listplayers while recording next time (if you have in one of them, i may have missed them) and i'll compare the user/alias(es) when i see him online. I've seen trolls which namesteal, have letters like 'l' and '|' swapped, or at least make a insignificant difference such as adding a black fullstop after their name...

I've been overthinking today, so i'll shuttup for now. I want to rest my brain.

[naboo]

As for more evidence for myself, i will gather them myself when i have the time.
Despite all the evidence here, i cannot find similar evidence. Until i see for myself, i'll probably won't believe.

Well that's too bad for you, because you won't see anything like this anymore, this was when peepee was just getting used to toggle it.

Also i seriously don't care if you feel convinced about anything anymore because all you seem to want is to make more posts, argue, and do nothing, then repeat.

One admin in the beginning questioned me if this really was ppnl, and although it should be obvious by his attitude I did confirm it in a later demo.
I'm not sure if i had listplayers at the time, and if i did i probably didn't use it too much. If you are seriously trying to raise doubt about whether this is him or not, i will get that demo, on that condition that you stop posting here.

Edit: Demo provided. Also i had the command at the time, but didn't use it so much. Not long before this i didn't even know how to stop tremulous from recording... so please excuse my learning curve at this good sir.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

you seem to want is to make more posts, argue, and do nothing, then repeat.

One admin in the beginning questioned me if this really was ppnl, and although it should be obvious by his attitude I did confirm it in a later demo.

Not long before this i didn't even know how to stop tremulous from recording...

I post because i'm bored. It's my purpous in life. I honestly don't care bout numbers nor arguements, well some of them...

Btw, if you ever forget a cvar or cmd, do /cvarlist *[part of cvar name] or /cmdlist *[part of cmd name] like /cmdlist *+ gives me all the movement and essential commands.

I guess i'll stop here, well try my best to. I think i'm just annoying you...

btw i failed another english test

[Meisseli]

I watched #3 and #4. Those look like a very obvious aimbot.

Nice, detailed collection of evidence. I should probably watch them all.

[Loki]

ppnl sux let him beeeeeee