Proposal Agaisnt n00bish mistakes: Certifications

[Rekov]

I saw another post and was inspired by it to draft this:

Make turorial things that train new players in the use of grangers and construction kits, make sure they know what each structure is before giving them the ability to build/decon in multiplayer. This will atleast keep the noobs from deconning

[Seafoideach]

To avoid annoying experienced players who have to re-install, you can just have a setting in a config file somewhere.

[Caveman]

And having a conf file somewhere makes it useless .)

[kevlarman]

And having a conf file somewhere makes it useless .)

not really, anyone smart enough to change the setting in the file is usually smart enough to build (after a few games maybe), just as long as no one makes a huge thread on the forums about how to get around it. the much bigger issue is the amount of developer time something like this would take.

[Seafoideach]

And having a conf file somewhere makes it useless .)

not really, anyone smart enough to change the setting in the file is usually smart enough to build (after a few games maybe), just as long as no one makes a huge thread on the forums about how to get around it. the much bigger issue is the amount of developer time something like this would take.

That was my thinking. And even if a thread WAS made, it would still eliminate people who don't come here (who are likely to be amoung the worst offenders).

[FX-Arch]

And having a conf file somewhere makes it useless .)

not really, anyone smart enough to change the setting in the file is usually smart enough to build (after a few games maybe), just as long as no one makes a huge thread on the forums about how to get around it. the much bigger issue is the amount of developer time something like this would take.

That was my thinking. And even if a thread WAS made, it would still eliminate people who don't come here (who are likely to be amoung the worst offenders).

Maybe have the config in tremulous installer. That way everyone has the config.

[Seafoideach]

Maybe have the config in tremulous installer. That way everyone has the config.

Huh? What do you mean? Sounds like you mean that when one is installing trem, one gets the option to skip the tutorials/whatever.

[Aninhumer]

FX-Arch, the idea is that a blank config will be created by tremulous when you run it, then if you already have one (from a previous install) you can overwrite it).

What might be better is if you have a quiz, rather than forcing them to do a tutorial, and make the users find out themselves (the quiz may point them in the right direction, but don't spoonfeed). It would have to be slightly randomised though, otherwise people would just keep doing it till they got it right.
The advantage of this is that (although a tutorial will help) it forces them to learn, rather than just fluking their way through a tutorial.

[Lava Croft]

RTFM

And spectate lots of games.

[Seafoideach]

RTFM

And spectate lots of games.

How many newbies and n00bs do you see not doing that?

[Jaradcel]

Actually not too difficult a deal to write up, although coding is a big ?? for me since I know jack about that.

As someone mentioned, when the game starts its in "tutorial" mode till the people figure out how to change that in the options (and if they can figure that, they canprobably figure out how to change their names and erm... RTFM?)

Why not make it so idiots/innocent newbies who remain in that mode get that crash course with those pop up menus?

Something along the lines of if they want to select a ckit or grangar it goes

"This is an advanced class. Do you wish to learn how to play it?" every. single. time. they. spawn.

That ought to figure them out to at least move on to being a regular rifleman or dretch (which is not VERY much better, but still BETTER for the rest of us) and if they do persist, they'll continue with that pop up window.

Thoughts?

[Caveman]

Come on guys, get real!

What makes you think that someone who can tweak a config file is also able to play?
An what makes you think that same person wont be a noob, game-wise?

This idea is totally useless.

[Seafoideach]

Come on guys, get real!

What makes you think that someone who can tweak a config file is also able to play?
An what makes you think that same person wont be a noob, game-wise?

This idea is totally useless.

I'm not sure what you mean. Here's my response to what I think you meant.

Give an average user a text editor with root privlages and tell them to change the driver xorg uses.

[Stof]

Newbies are a fact of life. You cannot, you shall not have a game without newbies. A newbieless game is a dying game : no fresh blood, only oldtimers who drop slowly but surely until the game disapears into oblivion.

What IS a problem in Trem is that newbies have a negative effectiveness value on your team. Compare that to an ET game with 5+1 vs 6 ( 5 good players + 1 ewbies ) where the additional noob counts as if it wasn't here and the game is more or less balanced ( 5+0 vs 6 ). In Trem, that noob will be feeding the other team, moving around turrets, etc. It will feel like a 5-1 vs 6 game or a 4 vs 6 which is rather unbalanced.

What can we do to minimise that ? Votekick works but is rather harsh and will  transform Trem in a newbieless game which is a bad thing. Better would be to make changes so that newbies haven't such a negative effect on the game.

Feeders are and will be a problem for a long time. I suggest displaying the remaining kill count for both teams in the score board and not only for your team. A feeder will feel bad seeing how the aliens are getting close to stage 3. It'll have some minor effect on gameplay though but nothing detrimental I say. And it's not like keeping a stage change secret is easy when good players are around tracking the smallest hint of such event.

FF and TK is a problem with such a simple solution : add ETPRO style hitsounds in the game : normal bip for normal hit, high pitched bip for headshot and error style bip for FF damage. Or at least the last one if you don't like hitsounds, I would love them myself.

For newbie builders, it will be harder to mitigate their noobishness. I don't think there is much we can do except make it CLEAR that building is for experienced players only ( like I said already, let's hide the builders when you haven't unselected the tutorial mode for example ). Also, if we take some anti deconner measures, it'll help also to mitigate the effects of a newbie builder deconning the wrong building in the same way it could be used to prevent a deconner from messing with the wrong building.

[next_ghost]

I saw another post and was inspired by it to draft this:

Make turorial things that train new players in the use of grangers and construction kits, make sure they know what each structure is before giving them the ability to build/decon in multiplayer. This will atleast keep the noobs from deconning

Two words: Designated builders.

[kevlarman]

Come on guys, get real!

What makes you think that someone who can tweak a config file is also able to play?
An what makes you think that same person wont be a noob, game-wise?

This idea is totally useless.

show me one noob (not newb) that can edit a config file.

[Seafoideach]

Come on guys, get real!

What makes you think that someone who can tweak a config file is also able to play?
An what makes you think that same person wont be a noob, game-wise?

This idea is totally useless.

show me one noob (not newb) that can edit a config file.

Yuh. Not change settings in-game, but the sort of stuff which requires you to fire up a text editor.

[Aninhumer]

I think there are plenty of people who can edit configs, so when they start playing they are obviously newbies. (But not nessessarily n00bs)
I can certainly edit configs, and could do so before I started playing trem, but I would still consider myself only a novice. (I'm reasonably good at killing things, but bad at not dying.)
Who's to say at least some of these people won't be n00bs?

[Seafoideach]

I think there are plenty of people who can edit configs, so when they start playing they are obviously newbies. (But not nessessarily n00bs)
I can certainly edit configs, and could do so before I started playing trem, but I would still consider myself only a novice. (I'm reasonably good at killing things, but bad at not dying.)
Who's to say at least some of these people won't be n00bs?

Not only must you be able to edit config files, but you also need to know where they are, and that you need to edit them to get what you want. And if they got have to edit a config file to circumvent something, they're slightly more likely to realise that maybe there is a reason for things to be that way.


Or something.

[David]

before i joined a game i couldnt find the options menu, so i edited the config files. it was easyer.  also, lots of games have config files. just becouse i can play CS does not mean i can play trem.

as for friendly fire, make a thing so each time you hit a teammate, even for 1hp, it has a BIG fuck-off in your face red FRIENDLY FIRE thingy accross the screen, so even if damageing teammates doesnt bother you, the annoying red text that stops you seeing properly does.

and admins should be able to see a list of TK's and who has done how much FF.

[PHREAK]

How about this.

When you first run Trem, there should be a page with "rules" that one has to aknowledge and accept before starting to play. Those rules should include points like building, teamplay, TK's, etc. This page should also point out that disregarding those "rules" might bear consequences while playing on pub servers. After the page is scrolled thru and accepted, a player name pop up pops up directing the player to chose a name. No unnameds should be allowed to preceed. (this has been done in various games)

After the ordeal, the rules tab should be there next to play, mod, etc so that it can be referenced at any given time by a player.

This system wouldn't alter current gameplay but would simply point out certain rules of conduct.
While new players will still have to gain skill in combat time, it would give them a chance to know what to and not to do when they first log in.
Ones ignoring the rules would be kicked, as they are now.



my $0.02

[Vector_Matt]

red FRIENDLY FIRE thingy accross the screen ... admins should be able to see a list of TK's and who has done how much FF.

That would be a good addition to Trem, also the devs should add a mirror damage FF option when they have time.

How about this. ... my $0.02

Very nice idea.  

[kevlarman]

How about this.

When you first run Trem, there should be a page with "rules" that one has to aknowledge and accept before starting to play. Those rules should include points like building, teamplay, TK's, etc. This page should also point out that disregarding those "rules" might bear consequences while playing on pub servers. After the page is scrolled thru and accepted, a player name pop up pops up directing the player to chose a name. No unnameds should be allowed to preceed. (this has been done in various games)

After the ordeal, the rules tab should be there next to play, mod, etc so that it can be referenced at any given time by a player.

This system wouldn't alter current gameplay but would simply point out certain rules of conduct.
While new players will still have to gain skill in combat time, it would give them a chance to know what to and not to do when they first log in.
Ones ignoring the rules would be kicked, as they are now.



my $0.02

only one problem with that idea. what do people do when they see a eula? scroll to bottom, click ok. people will do the same thing to your system, otherwise it would be good.

[Amtie]

I agree to the bit about changing their names, and having a bit above Mod called Rules or something like that.

[cochonou]

Newbies are a fact of life. You cannot, you shall not have a game without newbies. A newbieless game is a dying game : no fresh blood, only oldtimers who drop slowly but surely until the game disapears into oblivion.

Exactly. Instead of trying to find very convoluted ways to prevent newbies from doing mistakes, just teach them how to play.
If you don't want newbies in your team, go find a clan.