Author Topic: Stop complaining about campers! (Read 19243 times)

-Q- · « **Reply #30 on:** August 18, 2006, 11:42:45 am »

Quote from: "Top_Cat"

Quote from: "-Q-"
S1 aliens> Humans
S2 Humans >> Aliens
S3 Aliens >=Humans

What do we learn?
Humans should camp at s1 and attack at s2 before aliens are s3.

That olny applies if the Alien and hummie teams are of the same skill, and thats rare..but results in a great game! a skilled s3 hummie team can take out a mediocre s3 alien team, and is fair game against an equally expierenced s3 alien team..

of course it does mostly apply to quite equal skilled teams. Since skilll does have a huge impact in this game.

This happens in most games i play. But ive even seen s3 humans playing against s1 aliens and loosing in the end.

Mwa · « **Reply #31 on:** August 18, 2006, 11:50:54 am »

No.
You have one person stay in the base, the rest attacks, if it's a good A team. If not, don't bother.
One player with a psaw can trash the entire A base if there's no one there and he doesn't touch the overmind until last.

5 player H team that knows what it's doing.
1 psaws, 2 shotties, 2 lasguns + bpack.
S1 win.

-Q- · « **Reply #32 on:** August 18, 2006, 11:56:07 am »

MIght work against noobs but humans at s1 just die to fast. One dragoon behind the corner can instant kill you.
Moreover near their base youll be flooded with dretches that can kill you easily with a headbite..........
humans dont have a chance at s1.

FX-Arch · « **Reply #33 on:** August 18, 2006, 05:58:28 pm »

Quote from: "Mwa"

Other recreational camping activities: Dretch towers.
One dretch stands by a wall, the next dretch wallwalks to ontop and then turns wallwalk off. This continues until the entire team is a tower.
This can be done over doorways, if the bottom dretch keeps wallwalk on.
H enters through doorway. Bottom dretch lets go.

|
V

Lol I've build a tower with a goon, adv. mara, adv. goon and dretch

>>Searches for Screenie<<

Or play a game of tyrant riding. 2 tyrants and 2 dretches. The dretches jump on the back of the tyrants. Race to other side without falling of the tyrant

MtS · « **Reply #34 on:** August 18, 2006, 06:16:27 pm »

Since I posted here I haven't heard one complaint about camping while playing.

Edit:typo

MtS · « **Reply #35 on:** August 18, 2006, 06:19:19 pm »

Quote from: "FX-Arch"

Quote from: "Mwa"
Other recreational camping activities: Dretch towers.
One dretch stands by a wall, the next dretch wallwalks to ontop and then turns wallwalk off. This continues until the entire team is a tower.
This can be done over doorways, if the bottom dretch keeps wallwalk on.
H enters through doorway. Bottom dretch lets go.

|
V

Lol I've build a tower with a goon, adv. mara, adv. goon and dretch

>>Searches for Screenie<<

Or play a game of tyrant riding. 2 tyrants and 2 dretches. The dretches jump on the back of the tyrants. Race to other side without falling of the tyrant

I've seen a human tower once. Three humans on top of each other. That wasn't effective but it was fun to mara zap them.

FX-Arch · « **Reply #36 on:** August 19, 2006, 06:59:59 am »

Quote from: "MtS"

Quote from: "FX-Arch"
Quote from: "Mwa"
Other recreational camping activities: Dretch towers.
One dretch stands by a wall, the next dretch wallwalks to ontop and then turns wallwalk off. This continues until the entire team is a tower.
This can be done over doorways, if the bottom dretch keeps wallwalk on.
H enters through doorway. Bottom dretch lets go.

|
V

Lol I've build a tower with a goon, adv. mara, adv. goon and dretch

>>Searches for Screenie<<

Or play a game of tyrant riding. 2 tyrants and 2 dretches. The dretches jump on the back of the tyrants. Race to other side without falling of the tyrant

I've seen a human tower once. Three humans on top of each other. That wasn't effective but it was fun to mara zap them.

Rofl. Humans shouldn´t build towers

Or snipe them with adv. goon.

SirFrancisBacon · « **Reply #37 on:** August 19, 2006, 04:59:11 pm »

Because i agree so much with the following, i felt that i had to eloborate on it; so here is my first post.

Quote from: "-Q-"

S1 aliens> Humans
S2 Humans >> Aliens
S3 Aliens >=Humans

What do we learn?
Humans should camp at s1 and attack at s2 before aliens are s3.

It appears to me that these inequalities come from the classical matches between bread and butter units, such as:

Where "SX equipped" means that the human is equipped with the most pertinent items stage X supplies.

In my opinion this would be:

I disregard all special cases such as: Basilisk, Jimbo + MD, Painsaw, Grenades etc. because for example a basilisk is only effective if played with skill beyond the average. But can be unbeatably in a one vs one situation of course. As another example for most players the MD is just not lucrative. The contenders are of equal ability. As a final condition the matches are held far away from any defences or other players.

(1)
The dretch will win. It knows where the human is because of its radar so it can sneak up on him. It can regenerate. A headshot deals 96dmg.

(2)
I think the human will always win. But still i think that

S2 Humans > Aliens
is more appropriate than the original statement because it will be close.

(3)
The tyrant will always kill you. No matter what you procure at the local amoury you will get snacked on by the tyrant. So here if we disregard cleverly built defences and concentrate on one vs one matches, we have to make the following minor adjustment to -Q-'s statement:

So this reinforces what -Q- said; If both teams are of equal strength:

Humans won't be able to rush the alien base at S1.
The human team must exploit their advantages at S2.
At S3 it's game over: either the aliens win or the humans can hold it out at their base, because any human who steps out of it will get eaten; which means draw.

Appart from being my first post, it will also be my last - so i hope you enjoyed it.

next_ghost · « **Reply #38 on:** August 19, 2006, 08:17:40 pm »

Quote from: "SirFrancisBacon"

...

And that S3 comparison is complete nonsense. How many humans can effectively fire at an alien in average corridor and how many tyrants can maul humans in the same corridor without killing each other? Answers: 4 humans, 1 tyrant. And how long can 1 tyrant survive 4 rifles shooting him? About 2 seconds. Add some time for getting close and retreating and that tyrant won't even be able to touch them unless he's on suicide run.

Rambo humans are just fast food for aliens. Teamplaying humans are unbeatable.

-Q- · « **Reply #39 on:** August 20, 2006, 02:03:04 am »

Quote from: "next_ghost"

Quote from: "SirFrancisBacon"
...

And that S3 comparison is complete nonsense. How many humans can effectively fire at an alien in average corridor and how many tyrants can maul humans in the same corridor without killing each other? Answers: 4 humans, 1 tyrant. And how long can 1 tyrant survive 4 rifles shooting him? About 2 seconds. Add some time for getting close and retreating and that tyrant won't even be able to touch them unless he's on suicide run.

Rambo humans are just fast food for aliens. Teamplaying humans are unbeatable.

Thats why i wrote aliens >= humans at s3.
Tyrants will mostly win in an one on one situation. But cannot fight many humans at one time. But still they got an advantage. They just have to play according to their weakness and dont attack 4 humasn in a long corridor.
Well one alien cannot do much against 4 humans shooting at him while its hard for humans too when they face many aliens at the same time. (well not as hard as for aliens but still not easy, when you dont have flamer/lucy)

Kadreal · « **Reply #40 on:** August 20, 2006, 10:52:21 am »

Camping just outside your turrets is usualy a very good idea early game. You shoot and back up as a dretch approaches you and by the time you run out of ammo your safely within turret range. So if you didn't kill the dretch before you had to reload, you cover that moment of weakness by forcing the dretch to either suicide into turrets or flee. Rinse and repeat, an easy way to kills with basicly no risk if done right.

Of course this is easy to counter. Just hang around the base as aliens until you get 3 evo points, then go munch the humans who still have no helmets. Alot of patience is required, but with both teams being of equal skill sometime it really comes down to who is the most patient.

tomek-k · « **Reply #41 on:** August 22, 2006, 12:55:29 pm »

In my opinion camping is stupid and lame in sucha games like Q3, UT, maby CS (although I haven't played CS much, but this game is a tactical gaame).
Tremulous is a tactical game and it is not about running around and collecting frags. It is a team game in which the team must stick together (especially the humans team) if they want to win.
If it is just a begining of the game the humans must build their base to survive and someone must protect the builders so they can do their job. Of course it means staying in the base and watching if aliens aren't attacking.

Sometimes, though, aliens get advantage over humans before they are able to left a _finished_
base and we get a situation when humans are forced to "camp" in their base 'cause if they go out the base some s2 alien will eat them (still in s1) with pleasure.

Of course it is mainly the humans fault that they cannot defend themselves properly and aliens get the s2 when they are only in s1.

I think we can talk about camping when someone just stays in one place with a will not to move till his ammo ends or hp is low - that is bad not only because it is cmping, but also because it is extremely stupid.

Stof · « **Reply #42 on:** August 22, 2006, 01:30:22 pm »

Just a remark : aliens do NOT need stage 2 to pin stage 1 humans in their base. In case you didn't notice it, the Dragoon is a stage 1 alien

Mwa · « **Reply #43 on:** August 22, 2006, 01:42:35 pm »

Quote from: "Kadreal"

Camping just outside your turrets is usualy a very good idea early game. You shoot and back up as a dretch approaches you and by the time you run out of ammo your safely within turret range. So if you didn't kill the dretch before you had to reload, you cover that moment of weakness by forcing the dretch to either suicide into turrets or flee. Rinse and repeat, an easy way to kills with basicly no risk if done right.

Of course this is easy to counter. Just hang around the base as aliens until you get 3 evo points, then go munch the humans who still have no helmets. Alot of patience is required, but with both teams being of equal skill sometime it really comes down to who is the most patient.

You seriously run away from dretches?

Aninhumer · « **Reply #44 on:** August 22, 2006, 02:52:39 pm »

I run away from dretches if I don't have a helmet

tomek-k · « **Reply #45 on:** August 23, 2006, 12:35:11 pm »

Quote from: "Stof"

Just a remark : aliens do NOT need stage 2 to pin stage 1 humans in their base. In case you didn't notice it, the Dragoon is a stage 1 alien

hehe. I play the game only for a month :wink: ...

PIE · « **Reply #46 on:** August 23, 2006, 05:46:26 pm »

Quote from: "Mwa"

Quote from: "Kadreal"
Camping just outside your turrets is usualy a very good idea early game. You shoot and back up as a dretch approaches you and by the time you run out of ammo your safely within turret range. So if you didn't kill the dretch before you had to reload, you cover that moment of weakness by forcing the dretch to either suicide into turrets or flee. Rinse and repeat, an easy way to kills with basicly no risk if done right.

Of course this is easy to counter. Just hang around the base as aliens until you get 3 evo points, then go munch the humans who still have no helmets. Alot of patience is required, but with both teams being of equal skill sometime it really comes down to who is the most patient.

You seriously run away from dretches?

I get A LOT of kills in S1 as a dretch(and s2... and some s3.. I love dretch!)... S1 humans, unless they have it really together, are dead meat if they walk around the map at S1. I can do ok actually as a human S1 against dretches, but if they are good I usually can only get 1 or 2 before i'm heading back to base.. and there are always more than 1 or 2. I most of the time don't bother to evolve as alien. A lot of the time people underestimate the dretch. Its small, it can go on walls, if used right it can kill very quickly and can cause a lot of confusion on FF servers when a group of armored humans leave the base. Only thing a good dretch needs to fear is the flamethrower.. and a lot of humans are afraid of the flamethrower... and they should be.

Vector_Matt · « **Reply #47 on:** August 23, 2006, 06:15:04 pm »

Quote from: "PIE"

Its small, it can go on walls, if used right it can kill very quickly and can cause a lot of confusion on FF servers when a group of armored humans leave the base.

And, dretches can let other aliens ride them, the other aliens jumps while the dretch wallwalks, that way you can get aliens places humans think are safe/unusable.

Dretches, alien elevators.

David · « **Reply #48 on:** August 27, 2006, 08:25:44 pm »

Look at the last frame.

Jimmyup · « **Reply #49 on:** August 28, 2006, 09:51:20 am »

who doesnt luv the flamer... it uses FIRE!! and it can basically stop all smaller aliens from coming near you..... ill stop there for compliments on the best humjan weapon(i h8 luci)

Howitzer · « **Reply #50 on:** August 28, 2006, 04:22:14 pm »

Quote from: "MtS"

Quote from: "PHREAK"
The reason why I call people campers it to antagonize them, annoy them, irritate them. Not because they piss me off with camping. Ussually, a lonely hero gets pissed enough to run at me or the lure granger....whoosh...X was chomped by phreaks goon!

To be quite honest, I like camping hummies (given I have a decent alien team on my side). It means they are not getting kills and not raping our base and eggs. It's like pets in a cage, safe and secure....for now.

Most of the time, they use the warmth of the bonfire to make a cute wall of turrets and stand on it. Jump the wall, climb reacter and go at it. Reactor down and hummies have no idea what hit them. This strategy sucks on AKKA for hummies because the ones that notice me eating the reactor try to shoot me but hit the reactor for the most part resulting in a short ban.

Fouling noobs isnt very nice. And you never know what you're starting. I've once seen a human threathing to decon reactor if his teammembers wouldn't stop camping. That's a direct result of telling noobs that camping is wrong over and over again. Some insecure noob might belive that camping is as bad as deconing. Camping isnt against the game, it's just a bad strategy.

I agree 100% with you on the benefits of human campers when you play as alien.

rofl, that was me

Camping is a strategy, but it's a VERY bad one.
If 1/2 team camps and 1/2 moves out, fine, but when they all camp it's just useless.
That's when i threath my teammates to decon the reactor since we'll lose anyway, only thing that makes the difference is the length of the game.

Stof · « **Reply #51 on:** August 28, 2006, 04:36:32 pm »

Very often, human camping IS the best strategy. Well, the real best strategy would be for the whole human team to grow grandmaster level skills in a few seconds, find a treasure stash hidden behind the reactor, buy some good equipment and go kill the 10 tyrants camping just outside the base. But that doesn't happen often. Thus, the best strategy in those situations is to camp and hope the aliens get too greedy and lose their evo points opening their base for a counter attack.

Jaradcel · « **Reply #52 on:** August 28, 2006, 05:12:22 pm »

Quote from: "DarkRogue"

the funniest complaints are the ones who are complaining because the humans aren't feeding them regularly. I mean honestly how many INTELLIGENT players are going to run out of their base to be swarmed by 2.5 billion dretches or the 3 goons waiting around each and every corner?

Valid tactic aside there's a point where humans will stop feeding the assault team standing out of sight just beyond humans doorstep.

"Stop camping and hiding behind your turrets humans!!!"

'Remove yourselves from our doorstep and killing us the moment we leave turret range and we might!'

Sad thing?

I'VE ACTUALLY SAID THOSE LINES BEFORE

God damn

!!!! Ima

all over you

hodge · « **Reply #53 on:** September 01, 2006, 06:02:08 pm »

No good Tremulous player is ever going to deny that camping is a acceptable strategy against an evolved and talented alien team, but I think what bothers most players is that they are constantly seeing players slow down Tremulous's fast pace action.

As a human remember that most player's play the game to be challenged and have some fun, I think that many player's camp because they are afraid of there own team calling them a noob for feeding. Become totally dependent on your base's defense is a very bad thing, many players should find a server that is noob friendly and learn the best way to kill a stage 1 alien without camping to become less dependent on their base.

As a human it's usually a very bad idea to camp s2 and s3 unless the enemy has tyrants.

PIE · « **Reply #54 on:** September 01, 2006, 06:05:37 pm »

Dretch flood is just too much for S1.. but when you have pulse rifle and flame thrower.. you need to be careful, use teams, and attack!

MtS · « **Reply #55 on:** September 01, 2006, 10:25:50 pm »

Quote from: "Howitzer"

rofl, that was me

No, actually it wasn't you that time.

And if you feel a strong need to protest, leave the server rather than spreading threats. Do you even ask the team if they have any strategy for winning or reason for camping before making the threats?

News:

Author Topic: Stop complaining about campers! (Read 19243 times)

tomek-k

tomek-k