Author Topic: Map coverage and hosting at tremulous.info  (Read 7315 times)

[db@]Megabite

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Map coverage and hosting at tremulous.info
« on: August 20, 2006, 10:51:59 pm »
Hi guys and girls,

like most people in the community I am very pleased that there are a bunch of new mappers that bring some fresh wind into the mapping scene.
But as most of these mappers are just beginners and still want to release their work, they are (justifiably so) proud of it, this provides some problems for the editors at tremulous.info.
Sadly mapping for any advanced 3d-game is a difficult task not learned in a few days and weeks. This is as true for Quake4, Call of Duty and others as it is for Tremulous. To create a quality map you must have more than good taste and the ability to make a few brushes look cool. Your first look should be on gameplay and you really have to breathe the game to really understand it. I guess you need about 100+ hours playtime to get a really good feeling for all parts of the game. But gameplay is nothing as well when looks are dull. A map with great gameplay will never be accepted by the players if it does not have a believable and well implemented setting.

And always keep an eye on the fact that these players are the audience you produce your map for. If you take a step back, lead your work and think you would not download / play it if you were not the mapper, don't publish it. Try to improve, or better start a new map from scratch building on your experiences with your previous work.
Serious mappers build up to 10 unreleased maps before releasing the 11th good one. Mapping is hard work and has an ungratefull audience if your work is not near to perfection!


So what about tremulous.info?

We are a site by and for Tremulous players. While hanging around the mapping forums and having a look at alpha or early beta maps is interesting for some of us and even some of the players, it is nothing an average player wants to read about! The average player just wants to hear about a great map to download and play!

Be sure that most maps presented here will be looked upon by tremulous.info staff!But as we are working for the average player we will only cover advanced work in the news, downloads and in the mapcycle of the Derelict server.

So don't be upset if your work is not mentioned on tremulous.info. Keep up your good work, improve your skills and show us some really good map by yourself once you are done! ;)

Danny


P.S.: Can this please be made sticky? ;)
url=http://www.tremulous.info][/url]


Thorn

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« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2006, 12:43:23 am »
aye , im on my 7th or 8 map right now and im starting to feel i have the some talent.i have around a Thounsand hours playing time if not more.

Newbie mappers should release work that they are Proud of and have spent at least a month or 2 at. so they can learn some more to make there next map better.


oh and this really should be stickied

FireLite

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« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2006, 01:28:41 am »
you make some good points mega but i must put forward my view,

i admit maps with eye candy are nice but eye candy doesnt make a good map,

i myself am a new mapper, so all i looked to do was make something which is playable,

however i think ur forgetting that the most popular map universally it seems to me is ATCS that has very little eye candy compared to say arachnid and is a great map due to playability

alot of these newish maps are probably really good layouts which if pushed onto servers could turn into great maps,

i mean they gotta start somewhere

just my opinion

[db@]Megabite

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« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2006, 09:34:31 am »
Quote from: "FireLite"
...however i think ur forgetting that the most popular map universally it seems to me is ATCS that has very little eye candy compared to say arachnid and is a great map due to playability


Right. ATCS has a relativlely simple layout and very straight looks. I did not say a simple layout and straight looks are wrong!
ATCS does indeed provide some eye-candy. Look at the brushwork of the bases outside, the fence and stuff. And as an "Advanced Tactical Combat Simulator" it is a believable setting and this is partly because it is kept relatively straight. The corridors are not bland either. Textures and brushwork have some nice details there, too. Final point is, that there are no "newbie-errors" on the map. All textures are aligned correctly and everything is sized correctly.

Quote from: "FireLite"
alot of these newish maps are probably really good layouts which if pushed onto servers could turn into great maps,

i mean they gotta start somewhere


The layout may be nice, it may be even playable, right. If you are a new mapper that has the gameplay knowledge to produce a playable layout that is an important start.
But a map with "newbie-looks", design too simple to be called artistic, will get people to disconnect from the server. Looks are important to most people, actually more important as the first look at a map may piss most of the players instantly off... whereas gameplay can be judged after a few matches.

So my advise stays: Learn all aspects of mapping to a usable degree before releasing a map. It does not help you to get bashed for obvious flaws. ;)

Danny

P.S.: A part of ATCS's fame is based on its simple layout. It is easy to get a grip on for new players and the can play effectively on it, fast. It may get a bit dull for more experienced players though, as it does not allow for as many tactical variations as other maps.
I would not like to see too may atcs-style maps. They are easy to learn and fun to play for a while... but do not allow for more than 3 base locations making every match basically the same.
url=http://www.tremulous.info][/url]


Stof

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« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2006, 10:25:15 am »
Worse with ATCS I guess is not that there are little base locations available. It's that the default human base is too strong. Until the aliens reach stage 3, that base can be defended with a single human and a construction kit ( provided you build a few more turrets in a correct location too )

As you said, it's always the same games you play on ATCS :
- long drawout game with a siege outside the imprenable human base and very impredictable result ( mostly draw with some alien wins and sometimes, human wins )
- very quick alien death

THAT is the main problem with ATCS :)
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

Caveman

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« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2006, 11:03:21 am »
The OP should be made sticky and locked, after the comments got deleted .)

DASPRiD

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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2006, 04:36:55 pm »
All your points are correct, Mega. Except one:

No every serious mapper does release only every 10 map or so. Take sock for example (he made many maps for Enemy Terretory, like Fuel Dump). He just works on a map for 5 or 7 months, while collecting textures through his own digital photography, searching for sounds for the athmospheric and creating a really nice brushwork.

One thing he always does: If he spots a new technic to do something, he creates a testmap (most times they aren't smaller than a quarter or a half of ATCS), and plays around with the brushes to see if it looks good. Thats the same way I work.

Another thingy is: Those "map on a paper" is not always the best tactic. Well ok, for the first impression its ok, but then you don't know, if it is realy practicable. So pick the Caulk-Texture (and enough time),  and put the basic of your map together. Then you see, if everything is in size and you have a basic of what you will do. Then exchange the caulk-sections with the according parts of your map, and don't forget to make details to detail-brushes.

To the textures: Evil's textureset is used quite to often. You can find textures of him in nearly every official Tremulous map. It's true, you need metal-textures for the most maps, because its the theme of the game, but you don't have to use always the same textures. New mappers may search for new textures on wadfather or different texture depots, advanced and experienced mappers should go out with their digital-camera (come on, everyone got one today), make photos and create their own textures in Gimp or Photoshop.

Then use different light, not always a white light. Dangerous areas should be marked with red lights, maybe glowing or flickering (its possible, thx to ydnar). Through those instruments you can make your map very athmospheric.

Another thing is sounds: I always run through maps, and everything is silent. The only thing I can hear are the fireing, slashing, pouncing and jumping people. So create things in your map, and add a specific sound to them. Thats something I hate in the station map: You see gas, escaping from a pipe, but you don't hear it. If you are a serious mapper, you have to put an apposite sound to this. But you don't have to make the sounds by yourself! There are so many sound libraries out there in the internet, where you can get sounds for free for any purpose.

So in the end:
A really good map does not only have a good gamplay. Its true, this is a important thing, but everything else must fit. You need a good and detailed brushwork, the right lighting effect and apposite sounds. If everything is correct and fits together, the players will thank you for you great work. Else it will be only another ATCS/Tremor-style map, with less quallity.

And please, don't release a bunch of beta-maps. It is a pain to see hundreds of maps laying around on the servers, and only 15 of them are realy final. Search 10 guys, a private server and test the map with them. Collect opinions and improvements of them, and change your map again. Repeat that, until those 10 guys are happy with it. Then you may release your map. Here, don't forget to put a readme-file into your zip/pk3, so everyone knows, who made it and has some infos about the map. You may read, what sock writes about it on his website:

http://simland.planetquake.gamespy.com/pages/articles/readmefile.htm
url=https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=mail%40dasprids%2ede&item_name=DASPRiD%27s&no_shipping=0&no_note=1&tax=0&currency_code=EUR&lc=DE&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8][/url]

Stof

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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2006, 05:20:18 pm »
Quote from: "DASPRiD"
Another thing is sounds: I always run through maps, and everything is silent. The only thing I can hear are the fireing, slashing, pouncing and jumping people. So create things in your map, and add a specific sound to them. Thats something I hate in the station map: You see gas, escaping from a pipe, but you don't hear it. If you are a serious mapper, you have to put an apposite sound to this. But you don't have to make the sounds by yourself! There are so many sound libraries out there in the internet, where you can get sounds for free for any purpose.

Listen to him! I have yet to see a trem map that matches the quality of the basic Unreal 1 deathmatch maps for sound effects :)

PS : avoid the Ariza looping wind effect if possible though ;)
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

Lava Croft

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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2006, 11:24:01 pm »
I only have to add that you should release as much betas as you deem needed for the development of your map.

beethoven

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mac stuff
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2007, 01:52:51 am »
anywhere where i can download new maps n stuff for a macintosh?

p.s. any new weapons in future versions?
.V. Beethoven 4 lyfe!!!11!!!!1

Caveman

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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2007, 02:09:29 am »
Maps are not arch-dependant...

n stuff might be, just have a look around.
There have been numerous threads where maps are offered.

Paradox

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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2007, 05:05:54 pm »
Does anyone mind if i unpin this?
The infobase seems dead.

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Caveman

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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2007, 05:31:51 pm »
3 Month grace has been enough imho :)

Paradox

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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2007, 01:04:08 am »
I will tommorow.

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