Author Topic: No death penalty game mode idea  (Read 6919 times)

Commoner

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No death penalty game mode idea
« on: August 26, 2006, 02:23:17 am »
I'm not precisely sure how it would play out, but I was thinking maybe a game mode could be put in where the money and evolve points were earned alot more slowly but would be returned after death. So let's say you earn only $10 per kill. But if you had $100 you'd always respawn with that $100. To encourage use of weaker equipment or evolution states, it might also be a good idea to make it so that you earn scaled money or evolve points depending on what you are using and what the opponent is using. Killing a marine in battle suit with a pulse rifle as a dretch for instance would earn you more than killing to same marine with an advanced dragoon.

I think this kind of game mode would make for a more action-packed less campy game type with players not being constantly afraid of loosing all their hard-earned goodies. I think it would be fun to give the game mode a whirl and I don't think it would be all that hard to code.

Ranger

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Re: No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2006, 02:40:27 am »
Quote from: "Commoner"
I die alot even though I buy 1337 equips and evos. Please make it so more people will feed and I won't lose the credits I rightifully earned camping.
img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/KoldShip/marau.png[/img]


Commoner

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Re: No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2006, 03:17:36 am »
Quote from: "Ranger"
I'm a narrow-minded troll who's so insecure about my lack of libido that I must go around busting everybody's balls so that nobody notices how small my shaft is.


Please don't feed the troll.

Pacra

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2006, 05:45:58 am »
No need to, you already did, good sir.
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PIE

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Re: No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2006, 05:52:00 am »
Quote from: "Ranger"
I don't understand that fake quoting people is bad. In the future I should try saying things myself instead of trying to pretend someone else said them.

Quote from: "Commoner"
I really enjoy talking about penises.


Commoner.. what happens when someone.. say.. a really good player.. maxes out creds?.. they get to keep having an insane number of creds? is that what your saying? This sounds like it would just turn the gap between good players and not so good players into a canyon where the not so good have basically no chance in hell after a certain point... maybe I don't get your idea, it seems a bit foggy.. but then again maybe i do!

Ksempac

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2006, 06:03:02 am »
Really stupid idea for 2 reasons :
- Check PIE's post for the first
- Second reason : if an alien always keep his evolution points then a tyrant can rush in human base, die, respawn, evolve as a tyrant again, rush in human base, die, respawn, evolve as a tyrant again, ... Repeat as much as necessary until all turrets, teslas and def comp has been destroyed.

So basically, you re asking to play Quake 3, where you always know where to get a rocket launcher (akka Lucy cannon) and plasma rifle (akka Pulse rifle) to get as many frag as you can.
That wouldn t be Trem...bases would be useless because everybody could go Rambo on them (so probably Aliens would get an advantage). And a single player could decide alone which "team" (although there wont be anymore teamplay) wins.
url=http://tremulous.net][/url]

Stof

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2006, 10:49:20 am »
Very good idea. Humans will be far less scared of the aliens outside their base if they do not lose their equipment. You can be sure that a single goon will not block the humans in their base once a human goes after him with a chaingun/shootgun after each spawn.

Here is more or less how I would do it :
- like you said, less money per kill or else you'll have the best items available in a very short time
- change the scale for equipment/evolutions. Make the basilisk very cheap for example, so that anybody can unlock it fast. But make the higher evo take more time still
- There's the player money, and there's the team money. A player has available as much money as it's team+it's own supply. Each time you kill something, 20% ( might vary with the number of players ) of the money you win goes to the team. That should solve the problem for players joining a late game and beeing nearly useless.
- Max out both team money and personal money at a value less than the cost of the best equipment/evo. Once you are personaly maxed out, you do not get any more money out of kills, this include team money. Make it for example that it takes 2000 points to evolve as a Tyrant, but you can only get 1000 points at max for you, and 1000 points more for the team. It will take "teamwork" to unlock the best equipment ( well, you could always run naked with a lucifer if you want but I doubt it'll be of much use )
- You can replace a used grenade for free

Some more evole/weapon tuning might be needed.
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

Juno

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2006, 11:32:30 am »
wheres henners and his objections when you need him





if you kill a bsuit as a dretch or marine with a pusle rifle you already get more than 1 evo, you get 2 or 3

great way to get evos at s3

follow the adv maras and goons into battle, hit the marines a few times,and then run away

if the goon/watever finishes him off you'll get an evo or two

BUT DONT BLOCK!!!!!!!

Zakky

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2006, 09:38:13 pm »
Quote from: "Zakky"
I have no idea what the threadstarter is talking about...that probably means its a bad idea


I agree with him
oo!

Paradox

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2006, 02:12:24 am »
One thing i would enjoy to be implemented is: When you get tked, the tker looses one set of credits (1 on alien, 175 human). I would like this set of credits given to the person who was killed, to make up for the possible loss.

∧OMG ENTROPY∧

kevlarman

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2006, 02:32:36 am »
Quote from: "Paradox"
One thing i would enjoy to be implemented is: When you get tked, the tker looses one set of credits (1 on alien, 175 human). I would like this set of credits given to the person who was killed, to make up for the possible loss.
that would make it very easy to transfer credits between players, which may be fine, but it seems intended that you can't do that. it also seems to favor aliens a little if g_puntdretch is off, because it lets tyrants feed points to other players, and makes it much easier for adv. goons to keep sniping as a result (normally when i play adv. goon, i have trouble killing enough humans to keep evolving after i die, especially if i'm sniping a lot)
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
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|..d| #
|.@.-##
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Commoner

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2006, 07:51:46 am »
Quote from: "PIE"
Commoner.. what happens when someone.. say.. a really good player.. maxes out creds?.. they get to keep having an insane number of creds? is that what your saying?


The point would be to slow down the gathering of credits and evo points slow enough that you should reach the cap for credits and evo points only near the end of the game and most of the time the game should end before players even reach this point. So the game should be pretty much over before a handful of Aliens can evolve into tyrants or some of the humans can buy battlesuits and Lucifer Canons.

Quote from: "PIE"
This sounds like it would just turn the gap between good players and not so good players into a canyon where the not so good have basically no chance in hell after a certain point... maybe I don't get your idea, it seems a bit foggy.. but then again maybe i do!


Actually it should have the opposite effect since if let's say the good Alien players get to change into Marauders then when the bad human players actually kill them they get alot of points but when the Maurauders kill the humans with nothing but rifles and light armor they should be getting next to no points. To actually get good amounts of points, the Alien player would need to opt to not use his points and fight as a Dretch or maybe as a Basilisk. This is in comparison to the normal game where a good Marauder who kills the humans gets a good amount of points even if they're easy prey with nothing but rifles and should the humans get a small amount of money to invest in light armor they loose right away when they die.

For lack of a better way to describe it, think of it as "leveling up". Where a 3rd Level Alien Marauder would get next to no XP for killing a 1st Level Human. But the 1st Level Human who actually kills a 3rd Level Alien would get a goodly amount of XP.

Besides, I'm not suggesting to remove the normal game mode, just to present an alternate game mode.

I personally think this game mode would be more newbie friendly but lessa appealing to the more experienced players.

Commoner

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2006, 07:53:19 am »
Quote from: "Ksempac"

- Second reason : if an alien always keep his evolution points then a tyrant can rush in human base, die, respawn, evolve as a tyrant again, rush in human base, die, respawn, evolve as a tyrant again, ... Repeat as much as necessary until all turrets, teslas and def comp has been destroyed.


Yup by the time people hit the Evolve Points or Money Cap the game should already be over. Which is why Evolve Points and Money should be earned VERY slowly.

Captain Ventris

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2006, 08:31:26 pm »
Why don't you just play the real game, instead of trying to compensate for an apparent lack of skill with an entirely unnecessary game mode?

PIE

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2006, 09:13:35 pm »
Quote from: "Commoner"

The point would be to slow down the gathering of credits and evo points slow enough that you should reach the cap for credits and evo points only near the end of the game and most of the time the game should end before players even reach this point. So the game should be pretty much over before a handful of Aliens can evolve into tyrants or some of the humans can buy battlesuits and Lucifer Canons.

Ok.. this is the problem though.. if bad players can't get credits when they are easy to earn.. then they will have an even harder time when they are harder to earn... I don't think your going to be able to stack it where the good players get max credits only at the far end.. they will get them quickly unless you make it almost impossible to get them, and then even at that rate they will always have more than less experienced players. As it is now you have someone who is good getting something like a goon.. they get killed.. they are back to dretch, easy to kill again, and it gives the ability for others to get points from them. But if they come back as goon again and are really good at it they will continue to rack up kills and noone will be able to get a dretch kill off of them.. same with the human side.. once they level up its harder to kill them and for others to get the points.
I don't object to getting more points the harder the alien/human is, thats fine by itself.. I just think that never loosing evo points would end up smashing noobs and giving vets, or people who just get lucky and get a few kills early on, an unfair advantage. The ammount of dretches killing a B-suit will always be low... The ammount of rifle humans shooting down a tyrant will be low.... those with the Bsuits and Tyrants will have had to earn them and be pretty good.. they aren't just going to get killed by some low level noob that easy most of the time.
When battlesuits and tyrants are hard to get, only vets will have tyrants and battlesuits.

Commoner

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2006, 06:46:05 am »
Quote from: "PIE"

Ok.. this is the problem though.. if bad players can't get credits when they are easy to earn.. then they will have an even harder time when they are harder to earn...


Although its true that the bad players will get credits even slower they also can not loose them. The thing with bad players is that in general they will be just as bad with the Laser Gun and Light Armor as they are with the Rifle. That means they tend to be just as easy prey even when they are properly evolved or equiped. Either because they simply can't aim or because they make bad decisions.

However, I think as far as bad players go, it is more frustrating for them to finally collect enough money for decent equipment or evolutian and then get mauled a minute afterwards and end up back in square one than it is for them if they gained their equipment and evolution states more slowly but not be at risk of loosing if they are killed.

I also think that not giving nearly as much point to the players with the more advanced evolution states or better equipment would encourage them to 'play fair'. That is to not use all their points up to maul a team full of poorly equiped players.

Let's assume for example that a Dragoon gets 0 points when killing a basic Marine with nothing but a Rifle. While the Marines with the Rifle would get 100 credits for killing a Dragoon. Clearly the Dragoon while he would be able to kill more players as a Dragoon would opt to evolve into say a basilisk instead so that he can actually get more points to evolve when he has access to Advanced Dragoon or to Tyrant, that is if he doesn't opt to simply take out the Marine base and end the game to begin with.

Bad players will of course get their credits and evolve points slower than the good players. There's simply no way around it. However, in the proposed Game Mode, the bad players would be able to advance even though it would be slower than the advancement of the good players simply because they don't loose their hard earned credits and evolve points. This is compared to the same bad players being able to finally buy their equipment or evolve state and loose them right away because a good player will take out a bad player anytime hands down no matter what equipment the bad player has equipped.

If the bad players advance so slowly that the players in the other team are far more advanced than they are then the game should end and the teams should shuffle their players. But in most cases there will be both good and bad players on each team and in these instances bad players would be given a bit more advantage because they gain much for killing the good players while the good players have little to gain by killing them. That joined with the fact that they don't loose everything they've earned so far because a good player can take out a bad player regardless of how well equiped the bad player is, should give the bad players a bit more of a sporting chance.

Of course I can see how the good players who seldom get picked off by the opposing team will totally hate this idea because it takes away their ability to kick away at the opposing team's players when they are down to keep them there, but that's only to be expected.

I mean people who are on top will always scream "Why don't you just improve your skillz?!" when it comes down to making features that give newbies a fighting chance and which prevent them from getting frustrated away from the game. But honestly, everybody starts out as a newbie and there should be atleast a game mode which is newbie friendly so that they don't get frustrtated right at the start. I totally agree that the current game should remain intact as a seperate game mode though specially for Clan Matches and such where you can be assure of the skill of the players in the game. However, when you can't be sure of this, I think newbies should be given a fighting chance and I think this would be the best way to handle that.

PHREAK

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2006, 10:26:03 am »
I'll say this then I'll STFU.

Since you agree that most of us were noobs when we started out, and this "easy on the new player" system didn't exist, then how the fuck did we get so good?

Please don't tweak the game so it's moron friendly. If they can't become decent in a week, it's no loss if they run away from it.
We're not trying to have the most popular game on earth here...just a wicked fun and rewarding one.
If you suck at it, go play Pokemon.
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Howitzer

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2006, 12:19:40 pm »
A lot of newbies get discouraged easily, something should prevent this but at the same time keep the damn noobs out.

I very much like Commoner's idea, but it would get really hard then since a Tyrant will HAVE to hunt BSuits which isn't always fair.

Vector_Matt

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No death penalty game mode idea
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2006, 02:08:25 pm »
I think this could be a fun MOD, but should not become the default game.