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Author Topic: Advanced Basilisk  (Read 36739 times)

-Saig-

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Advanced Basilisk
« on: September 02, 2006, 11:51:50 pm »
Sorry but this is a question Ive always had to ask.

Gas. Whats the point.

Humans more often than not hit Stage 2 well before aliens half the time, so what is the exact benefit for going Adv Basilisk other than the meager 25 health increase.

Even if you do manage to gas someone it takes a long while to do anything. Granted the disorient effect basically ensures any Human afflicted by it will be promptly owned, but still.

Id really like to see the Adv Bas have a better gimmick really.
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AppleGeek

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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2006, 05:25:53 am »
Maybe it should contain methane. So that if a pulse riffle or flame thrower were to be used, the gas would explode and cause the human (and unfortunately the Basilisk) damage.
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kozak6

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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2006, 06:14:47 am »
A better gimmick would be nice, but I doubt we will see any serious changes.

Exploding basilisk gas is a bad idea.

The Adv Basilisk is rather difficult to play as, and the gas attack is marginally useful at best.  You are proposing not just to give the humans a way to completely neutralize the gas (other than bsuits/helmets, I mean), but you are proposing it in a way that damages and probably kills the basilisk as well.

Why bother nerfing an already shitty attack?
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PIE

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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2006, 06:22:37 am »
I've been playing basi quite a bit recently.. and I feel your pain.. its pure gold when you do actually manage to find someone without a helmet and you gas them and they panic and start running away, you grab their back and rip them apart..  but it doesn't happen often.. and if it does, when they come back they will have a helmet, or a bsuit..  
Its not really fair that its special adv power is so easily rendered useless IMHO.. the basi ends up sucking even more in S3 when Bsuits can turn around on you.. at least it can still wallcrawl..
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-Saig-

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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2006, 10:09:16 am »
I use the term gimmick exclusively when describing gas, since thats really all it is. I realise the Basilisk in any form shouldnt be a hardcore attacking class, and Im fully aware of this fact. Hell thats half the reason I enjoy playing the Basilisk though. Its a stealthy, agile class capable of singling out and neutralizing threats on its own.

It cant rush headlong into a crew of Humans and decimate them like a Dragoon/Tyrant can, or even Marauders to an extent. Instead, youre required to creep around, and sieze opportunities to grab and destroy solitary targets. Humans traveling in groups are out of the question, since thats the single best way to thwart any successful Basilisk attack.

So, I dont want to propose anything to be taken seriously, but there was a post a long while ago that covered this exact problem with Advanced Basilisks, and one suggestion someone made, that still sticks to me to this day, really seemed like a great idea to me.

Their idea was to give the Advanced Basilisk the passive ability to be completely undetectable by Helmet Radar.

It suits the class perfectly for its role. Also consider that, in comparison, Humans become much more powerful once they hit Stage 2 than Aliens ever do. Advanced Marauders are great and all, but Humans come funneling out with Flamers, Pulse Rifles, Grenades, but most importantly, Helmets. Those upgrades provide Humans with a huge number of advantages already even in comparison to Advanced Marauder.

But then look, what does the Basilisk get. A whole 25hp and Gas that is instantly rendered useless. Sorry, that sucks shit. Stealth makes so much more sense than gas, and for all I care you could completely trash the whole gas idea if the stealth idea came to fruitition.

Seriously think it over, anyone on the dev team who sees this. Im not saying it should absolutely be required to be done, and Im not trying to tell you guys how to balance the game, but Advanced Basilisks are not advanced by any means.
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Stof

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Advanced Basilisk
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2006, 10:11:48 am »
No alien shall have an unconditional passive radar immunity !
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urphy's rules of combat
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18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

-Saig-

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Advanced Basilisk
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2006, 10:19:38 am »
Yea but if Humans travel and cover eachother like they should in the first place, a Basilisk lurking in the shadows wont be able to do shit anyway. Not like they dont stick out like a sore thumb being nearly bright white too.

Either way, take my post with a grain of salt. I just want to see something, ANYTHING, besides having a class-defining ability rendered completely fucking useless. Adv Mara zap never becomes useless, Adv Goon spores never become useless, even the fucking Adv Granger's abilities never become useless. It is seriously fucking annoying.
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Stof

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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2006, 10:36:31 am »
Adv Mara zap is close to useless against humans already : it does pitiful damage to humans with armor not counting the ones with armor AND helmet or the battelsuits.

Anyway, the point of "no radar immunity" in my opinion has nothing to do with stealth attacks but more of the lines of end game stealthy hidden basilisk that doesn't want to die.
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urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

PIE

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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2006, 10:49:21 am »
I'm with stof on that one... that would become a problem...
Best fix I can think of would just be to make helmets not be able to defend against gas. It gives radar already, and will help with headshots.. but it doesn't need to do gas as well..  or it can at least nerf the gas, not completely stop it.
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The Noid

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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2006, 02:05:26 pm »
The endgame problem of the invisible basilisk would be very easy to solve... Just make the radar stealth only work while the overmind is alive...
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Catalyc

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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2006, 05:35:18 pm »
Although I thought the adv basilisk would be better suited as a support class for later stages (it already pretty much has the ability of being a mobile trapper), I like the stealth idea a lot, with the radar invisibility only being available with an OM it wouldn't unbalance end games at all. I also  think it could use being a bit faster and doing less noise when moving. It is good for picking on lone humans, but as an s1 human it's quite easy to notice that your being chased by the sound most of the time.

Considering that the adv. basilisk with the extra 25hp can still die with 2 Shotgun hits at close range, or 3 mass drivers shots (both of which are s1 weapons). I don't think it would dramatically change balance or anything :P
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-Saig-

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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2006, 12:59:25 am »
Exactly. And Ill fully agree with the stealth only working with the OM up. Kind of like how Jetpacks lose power when the reactor goes down, dropping the OM would reveal Basilisks on radar. Fanastic feedback ppl.
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holyknight

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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2006, 03:54:20 am »
I agree completely with the no sign on the radar with OM. I also think ADV Basilisk should have bigger health and should be able to move faster.
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PIE

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« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2006, 07:55:51 am »
Quote from: "The Noid"
The endgame problem of the invisible basilisk would be very easy to solve... Just make the radar stealth only work while the overmind is alive...

Thats not a bad idea at all.. i still don't really relish the idea of the basi becoming immune to radar though.. and I spend a good deal of time as one, but.. this could become too much of an advantage.
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Lava Croft

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« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2006, 03:18:52 pm »
Please no invisible Aliens, not even on the radar. Although the Adv. Basilisk's gas could do with some tweaking, a 100hp, grabbing and wallwalking Alien that invisible to the radar as long as the OM is alive, would be a bit too much if you ask me. It would only make people come here and post about how overpowered the Basilisk is. Not that that would be unwelcome...
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holyknight

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« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2006, 08:11:52 pm »
what if the adv basilisk have NO GAS, LESS HEALTH, but can wallcrawl, grab, and no sign on radar until no OM.
Or maybe... instead of grabbing, it can burrow! ... no... that would be too confusing...

Or instead of no sign on the radar, it can change its color. Like a chameleon, eh? eh? eh?
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4as

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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2006, 08:47:23 pm »
I agree with idea of radar stealthy a.basi.
Alternatively, maybe a secondery attack that would make nearby aliens invisible on radar for a minute or two.
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David

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« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2006, 10:19:58 pm »
how about making it silent? so they cant hear it coming?
then you could sneak up much easier.
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hodge

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« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2006, 08:05:05 pm »
I think some people are mistaken about the adv lisk, I think that the gas only works against humans that don't wear light armor not helmets.

Besides the reason good players use adv lisk is that they don't mind spending twice the bp as a regular lisk and they want a lisk that can take 25 more damage with a faster attacking and healing rate.

Personally I think the adv lisk should be a little stronger in order to be worth the 2 bp it costs.
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Stof

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« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2006, 08:36:12 pm »
Quote from: "hodge"
I think some people are mistaken about the adv lisk, I think that the gas only works against humans that don't wear light armor not helmets.

Besides the reason good players use adv lisk is that they don't mind spending twice the bp as a regular lisk and they want a lisk that can take 25 more damage with a faster attacking and healing rate.

Personally I think the adv lisk should be a little stronger in order to be worth the 2 bp it costs.

Exactly. Adv Basilisk costs MORE than Marauder ( same base price but you have to pay 1 more evo point for further evolutions, so it costs more ). It should then be better than the Marauder. Now it is barely a better form than the Basilisk. Not worth the cost. If you have 2 points, stay as Basi or go for Mara.
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urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

AppleGeek

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Advanced Basilisk
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2006, 02:07:16 am »
Quote from: "kozak6"
A better gimmick would be nice, but I doubt we will see any serious changes.

Exploding basilisk gas is a bad idea.

The Adv Basilisk is rather difficult to play as, and the gas attack is marginally useful at best.  You are proposing not just to give the humans a way to completely neutralize the gas (other than bsuits/helmets, I mean), but you are proposing it in a way that damages and probably kills the basilisk as well.

Why bother nerfing an already shitty attack?


I havn't read the rest of the topic, im too lazy, so this may have already been gotten over. What I propsed is that the gas explodes and harms the human. If that seemed unfair, it could slightly harm the balisk was my idea.
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FX-Arch

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« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2006, 07:34:53 pm »
Gasses is for gasparty ^______^

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Norfenstein

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« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2006, 01:39:41 am »
The basilisk does need to be improved, and it will be eventually.

It ought to be silent when running but I don't think making it any more stealthy will really accomplish anything. The real problem I have with it is it's only a decent class against single humans, which I can kill just as easily with other classes that have other uses and don't need stealth. I'm also strongly against what I call "class-specific balances" like the radar immunity.

I think its true calling is as a support class: it'd make it useful throughout the endgame and fill a much needed niche aliens lack. I'm not sure yet about changing the effectiveness of the grab or adusting the primary attack, but a number of things could be done to the gas to make it useful for support. The gas could slow humans (all humans) instead of poisoning them (maybe the booster could add the poison back) and continue to muddle the aim of less armoured humans like it does now. That'd fit in with the movement-restriction thing it has going on now with the grab. One suggestion I heard that I liked was that it could also hang in the air for a time after being sprayed, making it a little more strategic. The basilisk as an assassin type class might be fun but I just don't see it fitting in with Tremulous's balance.

On that note, wouldn't it be awesome if the drone pounced instead of having a shoot-me-out-of-the-air high jump? Tremuloom anyone?

And, FYI: The advanced basilisk has a slightly longer grab time than the regular basilisk
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|Nex|TrEmMa

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« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2006, 09:20:01 am »
What makes all basilisks suck is the human equivalency of the basilisk (in credits) is a Painsaw + Light Armor (Painsaw + Armor + Helemt for Adv Bassy).  I may be biased, but the painsaw is infinitely greater than basilisk.
On that note, make the bassy able to kill all types of humans and human structures in under 5 seconds?
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David

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« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2006, 11:17:01 am »
how about when i let go of you you cant move for 5 more seconds?

then its more of a support class, paralysing people allowing other classes to kill them easier.
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My words are mine and mine alone.  I can't speak for anyone else, and there is no one who can speak for me.  If I ever make a post that gives the opinions or positions of other users or groups, then they will be clearly labeled as such.
I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

FX-Arch

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« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2006, 02:53:31 pm »
Give basi 25 more HP and make it a little bit stronger.
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temple

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« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2006, 06:50:39 pm »
Adv dretch would be more useful than adv basilisk any d y.
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-Saig-

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« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2006, 07:50:30 am »
im not saying the basilisk in any form is completely useless. yea gas doesnt work vs stage2 humans, but that doesnt stop me from breaking the heads of humans with full armor and a pulse rifle. the only real thing basilisks cant touch is flamers and humans traveling in groups. even lone bsuits can be dealt with by basilisks if you know what youre doing.
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holyknight

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« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2006, 08:16:51 am »
I think I'll cahnge my mind... gas was REALLY annoying when I played today.
We were being pwned and THESE (or this) BASILISK(S) WERE/WAS GASSING US WHEN WE SPAWNED! SOOOO FREAKING ANNOYING
Everyone is moaning and making people get horny and was really freaky. Even though it wasn't very effective... ah who am I kidding? IT WAS REALLY ANNOYING! Everyone couldn't aim straight and we all died :(
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Lava Croft

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« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2006, 12:50:07 pm »
Quote from: "FX-Arch"
Give basi 25 more HP and make it a little bit stronger.

Get an Advanced Basilisk.
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