Shake up

[Timbo]

Proposed list of changes:

• DONE Delay on kill in non-cheat games and disabled when builder timer > 0
• DONE (needs testing) Extra frags for killing tooled up humans (up to a maximum of three)
• DONE Move battlesuit to stage 3 and increase price
• DONE Defense computer warns humans of building damage (needs a sound)
• DONE Hydra can grab battlesuited humans but they are still able to turn
• GUESSED Necessary rebalancing of damages etc to compensate for the above changes

These changes are large enough that the balance will be out of whack for a while I guess. For what it's worth aliens are winning roughly 58% of the time at the moment, so it's not too far off. Thanks to those who came up with these ideas. Feel free to comment or make further suggestions here (preferably without giving me too much to read).

Sorry things have been a little slow recently, but programming games at work all day doesn't exactly do wonders for your evening programming enthusiasm.

[DCB:ETOX]

sounds good..
i agree with all of the changes, though im not comfortable with the bsuit idea... but it will be worth a try

not to put pressure on, but around when can we expect these changes?

[Molog]

Could I also ask for the destroy timers to be removed. Their removal won't help with the rebuilding of a base, but will speed up the initial moving of buildings. It would also help the humans in the very early game when they are very weak.

Another issue is the chimera and dragoon. The dragoon is alot better at killing and destroying than the chimera. My solution to this would be to decrease dragoon health and increase chimera health. Make chimera dogfighter and dragoon more an ambush quick in and out predator.

[Norfenstein]

All the changes sound great.

I'd like to second Molog's request to remove the destroy timers.

I disagree with him on the chimera/dragoon however. It seems to me the chimera is more suited to hit and run tactics because its slash and I think base movement speed are faster than the dragoon and with the wall jump it can be a lot more agile than the dragoon, especially with the charge up delay on the pounce. Throw in the lightning attack and it's the best guerrilla fighter in the game. Plus I don't like the idea of higher classes being weaker defensively, it seems to go against the concept of evolving into something bigger and stronger. I'd rather have dragoon be the dog fighter.

I also think the MG turrets need tweaking as right now the two things meant to balance them (short range and slowness to aim) can be completely negated by packing all of them behind the one entrance to a human base (a situation that can completely thwart the alien team as long as there's someone to repair the turrets). And when all of the turrets aren't placed behind a doorway a dragoon can usually leap over all of them and sit comfortably on top of the reactor. My solution: Slightly increase their range so they don't ignore aliens sitting on top of the reactor right next to them, increase their aiming speed, and require them to "reload" after firing continously for a time so aliens have a window of opportunity when faced with a 10 turret wall that doesn't need to aim.

[DCB:ETOX]

i second norfs idea with the turrets.. as to chimera and dragoon, im pretty much neutral, though i have to agree again with norfs arguement. it would seam to go against the 'evolution' idea. one questoin though, alot of these changes seam to be for the aliens, but aliens are winning 58% of the time, so i must ask where is the logic? it would seam logical to me, to say come up with something to help decrease alien power, but these are only my thoughts, prehaps work on getting balance with the win/lose rate can be done after the current coding.
Another thought along the same line of balance, i see alot of older posts about adding things, not that this is bad, but when something new is put in, timbo is going to need to rework the whole game balance. im not sure where to go with this idea, prehaps once these current changes are added in we can start that discussion.

Im just wondering one final thing, how will frags be determined for killing 'tooled' up humans?

[Norfenstein]

The thing about the balance right now (and this is purely my take on it) is that humans can totally dominate aliens once they get good weapons and armor, and have a modicum of teamwork, but its much harder for them to actually win games. Since they rely so heavily on their bases for ammo and health (and because moving their bases or making forward fronts is excessively risky) by the time they reach the alien base they aren't strong enough to make enough of an impact. Add in the fact that aliens are highly mobile, have NO dependence on their base (with the glaring exception of the upgraded dragoon and its barbs...I wish they regenerated like everything else...) and can "egg spam" with near impunity, humans need a huge show of force just to have a chance of winning -- and that usually means leaving no one behind to watch the base. Aliens tend to win either in the very beginning of the game before humans can set up a good base (removing the destroy timer would help with that), with a successful sneak attack (the defense computer warning will help with that), or by simply wearing out the human team by constantly rebuilding faster then they can attack.

I can only think of rather drastic solutions to the last scenario. Making human bases more flexible might help, perhaps with Jex's idea of the repeater being a mini-reactor. For any sort of forward ammo/health stations to work, though, human bases need to be a little more resilient when not clumped together together in a corner with a low ceiling (I think my turret suggestion above would help with that). Better ammo extending items might help too (maybe change the battery pack to slowly regenerate ammo and have another item that simply raises the max capacity for other types of ammo?) but I don't know if it's really reasonable to ask someone to choose between a battlesuit that could protect them and deny an alien frags or having enough ammo to maybe kill a few more eggs. A health pack could also help. Or maybe just have items that people could carry instead of a main weapon that refills ammo or health for teammates. Teamwork like that is fun, and they wouldn't be an offensive threat (but it would require more modelling/texture work...).

Sorry to make you read so much.

[Crylar]

Sounds great, soon (with some luck) I'll have a better connection, and be abel to take part in the test playing.

"Defense computer warns humans of building damage" - This one I like the very much

[Timbo]

These changes are on the server now...

(that's your cue to play it lots)

[Molog]

I like the changes you have made.  

Only thing might become a minor problem is that aliens get 0 frags for default human.

[Stannum]

Should be fixed now, the no kills for default human.

[Molog]

I liked the 0 frags for standard human in a way. Perhaps an alien's frag cost could get deducted from the frags they get when they kill a human. So higher level aliens can't feed frags from lower level humans and a soldier taking out a battle suit would get a lot of frags..

[Norfenstein]

Having a system where you get more frags/credits for killing enemies stronger than yourself and none for those weaker would have its perks. It could very well eliminate the problem of "feeding" that makes poor teammates a liability, but it might also make higher classes that much more likely to camp... unless, I suppose, they were strong enough to offset the risk of giving the other team frags/credits. You'd have to balance the power and usefulness of higher classes with the earning potential and disposability of lower classes. Might be too much work to change the balance now to fit this system, but it would be pretty awesome controlling a Big Mofo powerful enough to justify only getting frags from maxed out humans...

[BuG]

that sounds Sweet.

*BuG Votes Yes*

[Norfenstein]

Played a bit today and hydras can't seem to grab battlesuits. Bsuits can look all around when stuck by a trapper but hydras don't seem to have any effect.

[Molog]

If you would substract half the frag cost of the alien from the frags earned then mofos would get 1 frag for most heavily equiped enemies. :/