Labyrinth Map - Build 21 Released - FINAL

[Warrior]

Build 21 is here.
Consider this as the final version.

Download Here
Direct download link for Build 21 PK3

Changelog is contained in the Labyrinth-Readme.htm file.



P.S.: I would like to ask Mercenaries Guild admins (http://www.mercenariesguild.net/base/) to remove old versions of Labyrinth. Please don't keep old versions.


This post was updated Oct-09 to include Build 21. Look below for Build 20/19 information.

[TinMan]

Looking good.

Should you need us...

[m0wlwurf]

looks good so far, but you could make the ladder from cylinders (patches) insteed of brushes, would be look more realistic

[Plague Bringer]

:O very nice looking, cant wait to try it!

[Survivor]

Too many pointlights throwing circles on walls and floors. sorry but i hate those. Try upping the ambient or making them a bit smaller.

[Warrior]

Survivor, what do you recommend to solve that light issue, instead of using the _minlight key or torch models?

[Survivor]

the ugly circles (the bright ones) are caused by the inner area, defined in radiant by the inner circle of any pointlight when you have one selected.

Either make sure that one doesn't hit by making the lights a bit smaller or enter an ambient key of about 3 to 10 for lighting. You only need a little bit of ambient after which you can do with less pointlights for highlighting the important parts.

Also both aesthetically and functionally it looks nicer if light actually comes from lightsources you can see like lamps, windows, fire etc.

[techhead]

Wow, you fixed the kinda-broken map, I'm impressed, it actually looks playable!
Sarcasm aside, Build 19 actually looks good.

[Warrior]

Thanks, techhead
Survivor, I will think in the lights for the next build; thanks.

[Greudin]

Love this map

[Warrior]

Greudin, think I should change this? It's funny I agree lol

[techhead]

Nice tree-house, nice HUD.

[Kaleo]

Looks 1 billion times better than the first version!

[vcxzet]

tree people

[Warrior]

For the next build:

1. Should I forbid building in trees?


2. Should I allow building in that river location?

[Warrior]

Build 20 Released

First Post Updated.


Old news from build19 (removed from the first post):

Here is the Build 19 of the Labyrinth map.
It is almost ready for release and I don't want hold it much more time.
Hope you can provide me some feedback with suggestions, fixes, improvements etc.

Download Here
Direct download link for Build 19 PK3

Changelog is in the Labyrinth-Readme.htm file.

Some screenshots here:

   
   
   
   
     

[techhead]

Don't make walls or platforms that thin if you can see both sides of it.

[Warrior]

Don't make walls or platforms that thin if you can see both sides of it.

Is it about the semi-transparent platforms?
I will try some improvement then.

[tuple]

Uploaded to
http://mercenariesguild.net/base/

[Warrior]

Uploaded to http://mercenariesguild.net/base/

Please remove old versions. Namely map-Labyrinth.pk3, map-Labyrinth-Build14.pk3, map-Labyrinth-build18.pk3 and map-Labyrinth-build19.pk3
(The only one that is ok to keep is the build19)

[Lava Croft]

Either start over again or just give up. This map is just horrible, putting even Quake1 architecture to shame. Please make your map look like it's actually made for Quake3 tech, instead of Quake1.

[Warrior]

Sorry, but I'm not an architect. At least it has one advantage: it doesn't LAG like Sokolov.
Furthermore, Quake3 engine only allow ugly things. It can't be compared to modern engines used in good games e.g. Fable, Age Of Empires III and many others that have infinite better textures, good architecture and almost none lag.

Btw, is torch illumination worse than the one used in build19?

Again: I don't need unfounded or unexplained criticism. It will be ignored.

P.S. 1: There is no good or bad architecture. It is good if it fits your taste. Example: Volcano map is, in my opinion, a very bad map, but some people loves it.

P.S. 2: I don't should lost my time making maps, and shouldn't announce it anywhere. But what I start I try to end, doing the better I can. More: I never asked anyone how to map or some other crap question, announcing my map is a favor as I could make it restrict.

P.S. 3: Don't tell me to restart when I can improve. Example: softwares that restarts from scratch have a unique ability: they have plenty of bugs.
My tip: try to never lose your time.

P.S. 4: Fell free to laugh. It's a good thing. People need laugh.

[Plague Bringer]

Lava; -CENSORED- off. Don't turn this into the same flamewar that you started in Xiane's ported map thread. If you don't like the map, stay away from it. Your critisism is not constructive at all.

[Lava Croft]

Sorry, but I'm not an architect. At least it has one advantage: it doesn't LAG like Sokolov.

Sokolov's Space doesn't lag, you just need a proper computer.

Furthermore, Quake3 engine only allow ugly things. It can't be compared to modern engines

Do I even have to start pointing out what nonsense this is?

Again: I don't need unfounded or unexplained criticism. It will be ignored.

My criticism is not unfounded or unexplained. I have clearly stated you need to make your map look better than a generic Quake1 map.

Lava; -CENSORED- off. Don't turn this into the same flamewar that you started in Xiane's ported map thread.

Thankfully, you hold absolutely no authority, nor have you ever made a map that's worth mentioning. So what on earth are you talking about? First deliver, then talk.

[f0rqu3]

"Furthermore, Quake3 engine only allow ugly things. It can't be compared to modern engines"

modern engines = normal map whores
you can also make good looking maps in q3
(pyramid of the magician is a good example)

nice map outside looks a little bit strange though
you can use phong shading

[Survivor]

Sorry, but I'm not an architect. At least it has one advantage: it doesn't LAG like Sokolov.

Yada yada yada. Responses shouldn't be like that.

Furthermore, Quake3 engine only allow ugly things. It can't be compared to modern engines used in good games e.g. Fable, Age Of Empires III and many others that have infinite better textures, good architecture and almost none lag.

You have no idea. The q3 engine may be old but it allows for so much. There are games coming out now which still look worse than the work of a mapper who knows his way around.
And textures are not that much dependant on the engine. Sure we can't bumpmap etc as easily as the new engine. But that simply means we have to spend a bit more time to make our textures look real.
The good architecture of those games you mentioned is possible in q3. And the no lag comes from the fact that fable isn't a multiplayer game and AoE is an rts. Both have wildly different engine specs needed for it. If anything compare it to the new battlefield, et:wolfenstein, quake 4. But not for the love of god to games that do not belong in the same genre.

Btw, is torch illumination worse than the one used in build19?
Again: I don't need unfounded or unexplained criticism. It will be ignored.

Didn't keep up on all the releases (what do you expect, 20) but the torches themselves are a big improvement over the pointlighting i remember from way back.

P.S. 1: There is no good or bad architecture. It is good if it fits your taste. Example: Volcano map is, in my opinion, a very bad map, but some people loves it.

There is good&bad architecture, especially in tremulous where architecture becomes part of the game (wallwalking) and the sphere is important as well.

P.S. 2: I don't should lost my time making maps, and shouldn't announce it anywhere. But what I start I try to end, doing the better I can. More: I never asked anyone how to map or some other crap question, announcing my map is a favor as I could make it restrict.

General rule is to never release your first maps. They will suck as this one did in the beginning.
By preference i would love to have all those alphas called betas restricted. It gives the mapper time to get work done without getting bashed.

P.S. 3: Don't tell me to restart when I can improve. Example: softwares that restarts from scratch have a unique ability: they have plenty of bugs.
My tip: try to never lose your time.

But you're building on old mistakes. When i look outside at the rock walls i see exactly that. Walls with a rock texture.
If I look in the pyramids hallways i see no true distinctive features.
Also new maps have 0 bugs if you have learned how to map and think in the game and aren't trying anything radically new.
It's a learner map, as such it isn't time wasted since it has taught you some lessons. This doesn't mean you have to release all your test maps. Remember that.

My advice is the same as Lava's but said less harshly;
Stop with the development of this map, take the lessons you've learned and apply them to a new one. It will come out better than trying to patch this one up to standards.

[Warrior]

@Lava Croft:
I am very glad my first map is like a generic Quake1 map (those were made by a famous game company). Lol.

"Sokolov's Space doesn't lag, you just need a proper computer."
Q3 engine is really funny: one engine from 1999 lags on hardware from 2004/2005.

Lava, your panic will end soon, as I don't want to hold this map much more time. Only until fix the worse things (the last one was the lightning, and now details caused by that change).

@f0rqu3:
"you can use phong shading"
Do you know an easy to learn tutorial? (I don't really have much time to test the very numerous shaders params) (Btw, my sand shader uses: q3map_nonplanar  and  q3map_shadeangle 50)

f0rqu3, are you someone who are using a new forum's nick? vcxzet?

@Survivor:
Thanks for your answer. Actually, you are the only one providing some help.

"Also new maps have 0 bugs if you have learned how to map..."
No one can believe on bugless maps/programs...

"By preference i would love to have all those alphas called betas restricted"
I'm the only tester and thought could get some more on here... probably was half-wrong. Mappers need some testers even if the current work is not released, right?

"There is good&bad architecture, especially in tremulous where architecture becomes part of the game (wallwalking) and the sphere is important as well."
To be truly I agree But I can't believe some new maps are being so blessed... (Obs.: I'm not talking about maps from Ingar, Odin, Jex, Lava (sic!) and some other good mappers... their maps are good despite of some lag issues somewhere)

[f0rqu3]

http://simland.planetquake.gamespy.com/pages/articles/phongshading1.htm
also you may want to see terrain blending tutorial:
http://simland.planetquake.gamespy.com/pages/articles/terrain1_1.htm

[gareth]

constructive criticism:

sucks:


sucks not so much (although the texture in the water hole is out of place and the texture on the wall looks just like the one on the floor and it needs more trims and the textures could be aligned better and what is a water hole doing there anyway?)

[Lava Croft]

@Lava Croft:
I am very glad my first map is like a generic Quake1 map (those were made by a famous game company).

That was not meant as a compliment to your mapping skills, but more a compliment to id Software for making maps in 1995 that still look better than people like you make in 2007.

"Sokolov's Space doesn't lag, you just need a proper computer."
Q3 engine is really funny: one engine from 1999 lags on hardware from 2004/2005.

Again you blame the Quake 3 engine for something a mapper has done. Stop hiding behind a 3D-engine to cover up your own shortcomings.

Closing words:
Try to ditch the 90degrees angled architecture, and stop using 4 textures in your entire map, or even better, stop using (almost) the same texture for your walls, floors and ceilings.