Some thoughts and ideas for the next few versions

[DieFamilyGuy]

While on a server a little while ago, i had some ideas for future versions of Tremulous. Credits go to me and Voodoo.
I have a lot of ideas so here they are:

1. There should be another stage, Stage 4. On this stage the most powerful weapons of both sides will be unlocked. More about these explained later.

2. A more effective version of the Egg and Telenode would be a Super Egg and Super Telenode. This is a group of three Eggs or Telenodes that saves space and build points. It would be unlocked at Stage 3.

3. I recently saw the movie War of The Worlds and the weapon on the Tripods should have a place in Tremulous. That weapon would only have 3 shots but could take out a Tyrant in one shot. A downside would be that it takes a long time to reload. And, to be fair, you cannot refill the ammo for this weapon. It would be called the Quantum Destroyer (if you have another good name, I'd like to hear it) and would be unlocked in Stage 4 if possible.

4. In wall turrets and Acid Tubes would be great addition to a base. They have the same characteristics as the regular turrets and Acid Tubes but save space.

5. Thanks to Voodoo, this next idea is a stealth building. This would provide stealth camoflage around some of the human building. The downside is that it must be activated manually.

6. I've always thought the Telsa Generators for the humans was too weak, so what about a laser? Such a weapon would be unlocked in Stage 4 if possible, cost 15 build points and requires a Defence Computer.

7. A new evolution for the aliens, the Queen. Unlocked in Stage 4, this alien is immoble once you have evolved to it. It provides creep like an egg and an Overmind, but doesn't need any build points. The catch is that you can have only one on the field. Also, it acts as a portable Egg.

8. I know this one is a major exaggeration but this may be a good idea. Megaweapons for each side would be unlocked in Stage 4 and require 50 build points each. For the aliens is the Mega Acid Tube, which spreads acid all over the arena. For the humans, it is the Tactical Nuke which acts like the Mega Acid Tube.

9. The toned down Tyrant seriously made the aliens more vulnerable. Tyrants should have a new attack. If you remember the Ultralisk from Starcraft with the two blades, the new attack for the Tyrant would allow the Tyrant to use both claws at once. This attack would make up for the damage loss made from the 1.01 update.

Well thats all. Developers, Timbo, I hope these are great ideas for the next version and beyond that.

[Echon]

:lol:

[Norfenstein]

1. There should be another stage, Stage 4. On this stage the most powerful weapons of both sides will be unlocked.

Another stage would have to add a lot to the game and still be balanceable to be worth the effort of implementing it. Can you imagine being stuck at stage 1 because the other team got an early lead which allowed them to advance three stages above you? That said I think we're all secretly pining for an Advanced Tyrant

2. A more effective version of the Egg and Telenode would be a Super Egg and Super Telenode. This is a group of three Eggs or Telenodes that saves space and build points. It would be unlocked at Stage 3.

I never see humans build more than two spawns, and aliens usually only do so for the creep benefits. Multiple spawns are usually made for insurance reasons more than to speed up spawning. A "multi-spawn" wouldn't really have any benefits over just reducing the cost of regular spawns, which itself doesn't add a whole lot to the game other than advancement for its own sake.

3. I recently saw the movie War of The Worlds and the weapon on the Tripods should have a place in Tremulous. That weapon would only have 3 shots but could take out a Tyrant in one shot. A downside would be that it takes a long time to reload. And, to be fair, you cannot refill the ammo for this weapon. It would be called the Quantum Destroyer (if you have another good name, I'd like to hear it) and would be unlocked in Stage 4 if possible.

I'm very much opposed to one-use expenses. If it needs to be nonrefillable in addition to having a slow reload and small ammo capacity than it's probably just overpowered (four hundred damage in one hit?). I wouldn't mind seeing a Gloom-like rocket launcher in Tremulous, but making the alien team's strongest class vulnerable to one hit kills is cheap and smacks of rock-paper-scissors balance that Tremulous has carefully avoided for so long. I can definitely see the appeal of a ridiculously powerful weapon (in contrast to an Advanced Tyrant for instance) but there's probably a fairer way to do it.

4. In wall turrets and Acid Tubes would be great addition to a base. They have the same characteristics as the regular turrets and Acid Tubes but save space.

Not sure what you mean by "in wall" but Acid Tubes can already be built on walls and ceilings. The same thing for Turrets has been discussed before; maybe Timbo's opinion has changed since then.

5. Thanks to Voodoo, this next idea is a stealth building. This would provide stealth camoflage around some of the human building. The downside is that it must be activated manually.

What do you mean by "activated manually"? Would someone have to stand there to keep it up, or would it just have to be turned on once by someone (in which case how is that different than how all structures are built?)? Would the cloak go down when a structure is damaged then have to be reactivated manually? Would structures still show up on alien radar?

6. I've always thought the Telsa Generators for the humans was too weak, so what about a laser? Such a weapon would be unlocked in Stage 4 if possible, cost 15 build points and requires a Defence Computer.

So why not just improve Teslas? I don't think making an identical-but-more-powerful structure really adds anything to the game. Maybe at stage 4 all structures could just be improved somehow.

7. A new evolution for the aliens, the Queen. Unlocked in Stage 4, this alien is immoble once you have evolved to it. It provides creep like an egg and an Overmind, but doesn't need any build points. The catch is that you can have only one on the field. Also, it acts as a portable Egg.

Er, so it's an egg that anyone can build but there can only be one in a map? It's immobile but... portable? What happens to the person that evolved into it? Are they stuck to the ground but still able to attack, and if so wouldn't that make them essentially defenseless anyway? I don't think this one was very well thought out

8. I know this one is a major exaggeration but this may be a good idea. Megaweapons for each side would be unlocked in Stage 4 and require 50 build points each. For the aliens is the Mega Acid Tube, which spreads acid all over the arena. For the humans, it is the Tactical Nuke which acts like the Mega Acid Tube.

Fifty build points is a heck of a lot; these would have to be more powerful than six Acid Tubes or Turrets, and I don't see that being possible for a constant area-effect weapon. Maybe a similar effect could be achieved with an upgrade to the Overmind and Reactor. Would fit in with the "everything gets better at stage 4" theme.

9. The toned down Tyrant seriously made the aliens more vulnerable. Tyrants should have a new attack. If you remember the Ultralisk from Starcraft with the two blades, the new attack for the Tyrant would allow the Tyrant to use both claws at once. This attack would make up for the damage loss made from the 1.01 update.

The Tyrant was toned down for a very good reason, I don't see how just changing it back would be an improvement. In fact, as of now aliens win more games that end with both teams at stage 3 than humans do so this would really be a step in the wrong direction. Maybe a stage 4 Advanced Tyrant could be like the godly 1.0.0 Tyrant.

I hope I didn't come off sounding like an ass, or even discouraging, I just wanted to help you think critically about new ideas. And it bears repeating that I'm not the one making decisions so my opinion only goes so far. New ideas are always a good thing.

[DieFamilyGuy]

ill be more clear here.

1. Yes stage 4 is a little overpowered, but to make things more fairer it would take more kills to reach stage 3 and 4.

2. True, humans don't build more then two spawns. But on populated servers where there are lots of people, these could be a lifesaver. I've seen 3 spawns before and people still have trouble getting into the arena.

3. Yes, killing a tyrant in one shot does seem a little unfair to the aliens. But the point of 3 shots only makes things better. Plus, it would cost 2000 credits, which means a lot of killing.

4. In wall acid tubes mean that only a small portion of the tube is shown. This is a good thing for the aliens, because they rely on stealth.

5. Activated manually means that a person can go up to it and press the use key. It last for 3 minutes and takes 1:30 minutes to recharge. The building under the camoflage would only be seen by Dragoon and above.

6. Tesla is the same thing as the mg turret, except its more powerful and shoots a lightning bolt. If the developers had some choice, they could have improve the mg turret. The laser proposed is not an upgrade, instead its a whole new building and not just an improvement of the older ones.

7. Ok i guess i wasn't clear. The Queen is immobile at first but has some defence. Thankfully it can still rotate and attack any humans that go by it. To make up for the weapons that the humans use, it has an attack similer to the Adv. Dragoons barbs. The portable egg thing will not offer any creep so the aliens can't build around it. The queen is immobile at first but can move around. However when moving it is totally defenceless.

8. They're called megaweapons for a reason. They can only be use once and are activated at the Overmind or Reactor. And, they are extremely powerful. To make things fair, the person that uses it doesn't get credits or evolve points. Its just a way to clear out the area to make a base assault easier. And the attacks don't affect the Telenodes, Eggs, Overmind and the Reactor

9. The Advanced Tyrant is a good idea, but presents a problem to the humans. What will they do when a super, ultra powerful 1.0 Tyrant comes knocking at their door and smashing everything in sight? The humans should have something to at least weaken it.

[Norfenstein]

1. Yes stage 4 is a little overpowered, but to make things more fairer it would take more kills to reach stage 3 and 4.

Would just raising the stage thresholds be enough though? If you're at a two stage disadvantage than the other team has a tremendous chance of winning but it's still possible to come back. If they could use that advantage to become even more powerful then don't you think that would detract from the game?

2. True, humans don't build more then two spawns. But on populated servers where there are lots of people, these could be a lifesaver. I've seen 3 spawns before and people still have trouble getting into the arena.

Or it could be their Achille's heel. If a team is dying so frequently that three spawns isn't enough, who's going to be around to defend that single multispawn that the entire team is relying on? If the answer is to build more than one then again I ask how this would be different from simply reducing the cost (and I guess the build time) of regular spawns?

3. Yes, killing a tyrant in one shot does seem a little unfair to the aliens. But the point of 3 shots only makes things better. Plus, it would cost 2000 credits, which means a lot of killing.

Putting such high restrictions on a weapon makes it feel very cheap when there's no pay off and that could only be compounded by the fact that this proposed weapon wouldn't be refillable. Necessarily to offset this you'd have to make it equally cheap for whomever it's used against when there is a pay off. Besides, why spend a ridiculous 2000 credits on a weapon that will almost never pay for itself?

4. In wall acid tubes mean that only a small portion of the tube is shown. This is a good thing for the aliens, because they rely on stealth.

Stealth is pretty useless against the helmet's radar, which would make these just smaller acid tubes. I'd worry that with such small hitboxes they'd be impossible to damage without the attacker being hit, which means that with enough of them in one place no one could get through.

5. Activated manually means that a person can go up to it and press the use key. It last for 3 minutes and takes 1:30 minutes to recharge. The building under the camoflage would only be seen by Dragoon and above.

Why the arbitrary limit on which classes it affects? Wouldn't making the better half of the alien team immune to this effect make it rather useless? For that matter what does making it manually activated add? Would humans be invisible under this camouflage too?

6. Tesla is the same thing as the mg turret, except its more powerful and shoots a lightning bolt. If the developers had some choice, they could have improve the mg turret. The laser proposed is not an upgrade, instead its a whole new building and not just an improvement of the older ones.

Only teslas and turrets don't function identically and teslas are in fact weaker than turrets. Turrets aim slowly but have a greater range and higher damage output. Teslas hit instantly and can damage more than one target at a time and have no spread. What you proposed is exactly the same as the tesla (right down to requiring a defense computer) but does more damage. You have to ask yourself if this adds enough to the game to be worth making a new model and sounds, coding it in and then balancing it.

7. Ok i guess i wasn't clear. The Queen is immobile at first but has some defence. Thankfully it can still rotate and attack any humans that go by it. To make up for the weapons that the humans use, it has an attack similer to the Adv. Dragoons barbs. The portable egg thing will not offer any creep so the aliens can't build around it. The queen is immobile at first but can move around. However when moving it is totally defenceless.

Do you think people would really want to evolve into a class with severely limited mobility just to have an extra egg with no creep? Why can there only be one? I think it'd make a lot more sense if this class was tied instead to the Overmind: it would explain why there could only be one and would give the player using it a much more valuable target to defend.

8. They're called megaweapons for a reason. They can only be use once and are activated at the Overmind or Reactor. And, they are extremely powerful. To make things fair, the person that uses it doesn't get credits or evolve points. Its just a way to clear out the area to make a base assault easier. And the attacks don't affect the Telenodes, Eggs, Overmind and the Reactor

What you proposed was a structure costing fully half of the total build points allotted by default. Never mind that offensive structures can be damaged and killed before they even finish building, are people supposed to tear down half of their base for a single use building?

9. The Advanced Tyrant is a good idea, but presents a problem to the humans. What will they do when a super, ultra powerful 1.0 Tyrant comes knocking at their door and smashing everything in sight? The humans should have something to at least weaken it.

Well then I'd say you need to flesh out more ideas for stage 4. With three stages the current tyrant works just fine.

[-Saig-]

i wouldnt be against a buff to teslas, but then again a smart human team can suppliment enough damage along with it to scare off/kill attacking units really...

...cept with damn advgoons. turrets become obsolete when those come into play since advgoons sit back and decimate defenses relentlessly. id really suggest spike spores not regenerating and instead can only be refilled via booster.

another thing, adv marauder zap really is pretty crappy now. yes you have to aim it now, thats great, but seems like too much of a nerf almost. i would recommend a slower recharge on zap initially, and instead of having to aim it, make it so zap only hits things in your current FOV. it would still require aiming to use correctly, by having to at least be facing a target, instead of jumping around like a baboon with a firecracker shoved up its ass smashing the alternate attack button.

edit: oh yea forgot actual on-topic reply lol. another stage would be kinda cool but the ideas you supplimented arent really that great to be honest. a super mega ballsmashing weapon that costs 2000 credits and one-shots a tyrant? id rather stick with a lucy cannon/bsuit, and have another teamate with me helping out instead really.

[Catalyc]

I just got an idea for the tyrant shooter (whatever its called), instead of being a non-refillable 3 shot weapon, it could be something like the q3 lightning gun  (it has a relatively close range), but it overheats after say, 5 seconds of continous(sp?) use damaging the user when it does so (20 dmg with overheat?), in those 5 seconds it deals a large chunk of damage, not full 400, but perhaps 300 or so taking out a 30% of the ammo each time it overheats (so it can be refillable too). It takes 3-4 seconds to cool down, this would mean that the shooter will have to stay aiming at the tyrant all the time  (requiring at least a bit of skill) and support from his team mates to take him down at once. I now just realized that it sounds a lot like the flamer, but with a longer range, overheating and less selfdamage . ATM, for humans, its all about teamwork, and this kind of wepon would keep that going, since it'd be impossible to get a full kill even on a smart adv goon without some support (the goon could just leap above the user waiting for it to overheat and attack when the shooter is vulnerable). I guess this would be mainly a defensive weapon.

Regarding the cloaking, I think it would be better if dretches were the only class to see the cloaked buildings, this would make them more usefull in end games. and each time a structure attacks or is damaged it should appear and disappear. (so a dretch could suicide to turrets making the turrets visible for adv goons to snipe or tyrants to know where they are). Perhaps the counter for aliens could be a special building (kinda like the d computer) that makes all of the structures and creatures near it not visible on helmet's radar unless a human has them in their field of view. That way its very differentr for each team, aliens sense the structures but can't see them, and hums can't sense them but see them.

I also think the dragoon sniping should be toned down a bit against structures, most human bases are helpless against a goon sniping (even more if there are 2 or more) since the reactor is a huge target that takes a more to repair than what it takes to damage it if its visible, same with turrets. there are very few maps that require the dragoon to get close enough to get damaged while sniping (and it can still kill individual turrets with pounce + slash, I've seen some players *cough* norf *cough*  take out a whole turret front by themselves in one strike)

Another small thing I thought of was that medical stations should refill stamina instantly, just like boosters refill the barbs for dragoons, would just help to get past the defenses when you go for an ammo refill and not a full reheal.

Also it was suggested in IRC that to add another function to the defense computer, when being close to it, the helmet ID's which kind of alien is around (tyrant, dragoon, bas, dretch, grang), but it would be limited to base defense mainly.
Guess I wen't off topic a bit :/

[edit]added a bit of more stuff