Thoughts on Vis

[Coopala]

Hi all.
First up, well done to all the mappers who contribute to this forum, you've already helped me solve more probs than you'll ever realise. Ha.
So a big thanks and well done.

Ok, sooo.
I'm just after some opinions.
I'm currently experiencing some really intense build times when it's compiling the Vis section. Now, everything else seems to be correct, no leaks, correct base path, map works fine in all regards.
I was just wondering, are long vis build times common, or is it relating to an error in my map? What are some of the factors most likely to effect vis?
For example, are there any general guidelines I should stick to when structuring/detailing the map that would help?

Cheers guys, any help would be awesome.
c00p.

[OverFlow]

Most likely you are only using structural type brushes.  (The default)  

If you have lots of structural brushes, it takes a long time for the vis stage to calculate how the level should react for different positions the player will be in.  

The solution to this is to only have a small number of structural brushes that define the general shape of room, halls, etc.. then fill in the rest with detail brushes.  Using detail brushes vastly improves the vis compile time, and gives you much better control over vis calculations, should you need to optimize it.

A couple things to keep in mind:  
*Detail brushes do not count to fill up 'holes' in your map.
*Detail brushes render all their faces, even if its the boundary between brushes that will never be seen, so you must make those faces of the brush a 'caulk' shader.  (The pink colored one in common textures)

Even with levels the size of arachnid2, it should not take more than 10 seconds to do the vis stage.

[Coopala]

Hey thanks OverFlow,
Firstly for the quick response,
Secondly for the info.

I have been limiting the amount of structual brushes I've been using, but it's obvious I'm still using too many. I wasn't aware that I should caulk the unseen textures, allthough all outside walls are caulked, so it looks like I might have a bit of work ahead of me now.
10secs... geeze, I'm wayyyyy over that. I must really be doing something wrong. Ok, back to work. lol.

[p0m]

Hey thanks OverFlow,
Firstly for the quick response,
Secondly for the info.

I have been limiting the amount of structual brushes I've been using, but it's obvious I'm still using too many. I wasn't aware that I should caulk the unseen textures, allthough all outside walls are caulked, so it looks like I might have a bit of work ahead of me now.
10secs... geeze, I'm wayyyyy over that. I must really be doing something wrong. Ok, back to work. lol.

Another thing to check for is obviously leaks, try using the 'meta' compile from the gtkradiant build menu and once it's finished compiling select File -> Pointfile.

Follow the big red line and you should see where it leaks If it goes straight through a brush it might be invalid (Thanks to one of the CSG tools usually).

[Coopala]

Hey cheers for the advice Mr p0m!

Nah, it's not related to leaks, of that I'm pretty sure. Checked it all out, it's not reporting any. Feelin pretty proud about that.
I've got the structuring of my maps nicely sussed, I think that OverFlow's got it pretty spot on here, I've been workin on caulking all the hidden surfaces and the time's been dropping nicely.
Hopefully it'll be back to a reasonable length soon.
Once again, cheers guys.

[Shadowgandor]

Hey thanks OverFlow,
Firstly for the quick response,
Secondly for the info.

I have been limiting the amount of structual brushes I've been using, but it's obvious I'm still using too many. I wasn't aware that I should caulk the unseen textures, allthough all outside walls are caulked, so it looks like I might have a bit of work ahead of me now.
10secs... geeze, I'm wayyyyy over that. I must really be doing something wrong. Ok, back to work. lol.

Another thing to check for is obviously leaks, try using the 'meta' compile from the gtkradiant build menu and once it's finished compiling select File -> Pointfile.

Follow the big red line and you should see where it leaks If it goes straight through a brush it might be invalid (Thanks to one of the CSG tools usually).

Wow thx, so i've got a invalid thing on my map
The line went straight through my wall...

[TRaK]

I'm pretty sure caulking all unseen surfaces won't affect the vis build time. It'll improve performance, though, so keep doing that.

Just make sure that every brush that seperates your map from the void is structural. Make most of the rest detail(ctrl-m). An easy way to see this is by filtering out detail brushes(ctrl-d). This will make you see only the structural brushes in your map. Then you can make detail everything that isn't part of the main layout.

Also, keep in mind that patches are never structural, so they don't seperate your map from the void.

[Coopala]

Yuh, ok all good now.
It was a combination of caulking and detail brushes that did the trick.
I thought I'd been making most of my brushes detail, but when I filtered out the structuals from the view, barely anything disapeared.
My reaction: "Oh......... oops."

The filter option is a really usefull tool for people stuck in my position.
eg: I filtered out detail brushes, then as I converted them, they disapeared, meaning I could work around the map easily without them getting in the road.

This may seem obvious to you guys, but a n00b like me still has to learn these things. Wont' happen again though, I've gotten into the habbit of building in caulk and making them detail. I advise all n00bs to do the same. lol.

[p0m]

Hey thanks OverFlow,
Firstly for the quick response,
Secondly for the info.

I have been limiting the amount of structual brushes I've been using, but it's obvious I'm still using too many. I wasn't aware that I should caulk the unseen textures, allthough all outside walls are caulked, so it looks like I might have a bit of work ahead of me now.
10secs... geeze, I'm wayyyyy over that. I must really be doing something wrong. Ok, back to work. lol.

Another thing to check for is obviously leaks, try using the 'meta' compile from the gtkradiant build menu and once it's finished compiling select File -> Pointfile.

Follow the big red line and you should see where it leaks If it goes straight through a brush it might be invalid (Thanks to one of the CSG tools usually).

Wow thx, so i've got a invalid thing on my map
The line went straight through my wall...

Just replace that brush and recompile it

Big tip here, pay attention to the message window down the bottom when loading the pointfile, otherwise you'll think there's a leak when there isn't.

[techhead]

There a a couple semi-leaks in Karith.
Human starting room for one, if you build something in corner under door, you can sometimes see it through the wall.
1 building, and only the one all the way in the absolute corner.

[p0m]

There a a couple semi-leaks in Karith.
Human starting room for one, if you build something in corner under door, you can sometimes see it through the wall.
1 building, and only the one all the way in the absolute corner.

I doubt that's actually a leak. More than likely a simple mistextured brush

[techhead]

I meant you can see it on radar, sorry for the ambiguity.