Virginia Tech Shooting

[_Equilibrium_]

i think accidents from everyone (everyone responsible an dof age of course) carrying guns would total to well over 33.

[gareth]

If you think about it, these types of situations make me wish most people carried a gun.

silly egotistical idea. Really, even if some hero had shot down the killer before he got them, in the long run more guns means more gun crime. You only ever hear of things like this happening in the us, because in sane countries its much more difficult to get hold of guns.

As for the argument "crazy people will always find a way to massacre people" that is probably true, but it is also true that the harder it is for them to do that the less likely it is to happen.

[Undeference]

The fact is that making it harder for someone to legally buy a gun for legitimate, non-harmful purposes (assuming there are any) does not make it harder for someone to acquire a gun illegally.
But, of course, bombs are more dangerous than guns. The concerning thing is that you can buy all of the components to make an effective explosive device at any hardware store. It may cost less money overall, there's the potential to kill more people, and the attacker doesn't have to be anywhere nearby when it happens. The attacker's name would never get on any list of gun owners, s/he wouldn't have to wait X number of days but could start immediately, and s/he can still buy all of the components whether s/he's been to prison before or not.
The irony is that, of all the people wanting to kill a bunch of other people, people tend to prefer guns. (Maybe that's a good thing.)

Thinking of the specific situation, the university and involved law enforcement did not handle the situation well. Two people were killed and they assumed the attacker had left or was one of the dead. Presumably, he took a leisurely stroll across campus (half a mile in 2 hours is pretty leisurely) before killing more. Not only was the law enforcement ineffective, but the university didn't bother to tell anyone what was going on until 2 hours after the first killings, when it was already too late.

You also have the fact that, according to the media, people were concerned about the guy. According to one source, he was just your typical homicidal maniac (paraphrased, of course). Apparently, the fact that he never talked to anyone (saying a few evasive words is not talking) wasn't concerning enough.

You get the idea that maybe someone screwed up with this kid beyond the point where "more gun control" would do a damned thing. (And of course "more gun control" is kind of late now. The people are already dead.)

[Plague]

If everyone carried guns, can you imagine what kind of paranoid society we would have?  It's not a society I would ever hope to belong too.  Guns are bad, and as Gareth pointed out, gun crimes in the US, where buying guns is legal, is far worse than countries that have made buying/selling guns illegal.

[Matt Yee]

Vector_Matt: Agree.
Guns are banned in Virginia Tech.
Cho Seung-Hui shot 31 unarmed people - if guns wasn't banned, anybody would could shot Cho and save own life.

If guns was banned in whole U.S. , there would be no problem to buy weapon anyway ( on black market or sth ).

[KobraKaine]

If you think about it, these types of situations make me wish most people carried a gun.

silly egotistical idea. Really, even if some hero had shot down the killer before he got them, in the long run more guns means more gun crime. You only ever hear of things like this happening in the us, because in sane countries its much more difficult to get hold of guns.

As for the argument "crazy people will always find a way to massacre people" that is probably true, but it is also true that the harder it is for them to do that the less likely it is to happen.

...Saner countries?  You mean like in the middle east where children are born with AK-47's grafted to their arm?

Or were you referring to Switzerland, who was too pussy to take sides in World War I - II?

Speaking of World Wars, who saved Europe's ass both times?  Ohhhhhhh yeah... that would be the United States of America.

[Anansi-Sama]

If you think about it, these types of situations make me wish most people carried a gun.

silly egotistical idea. Really, even if some hero had shot down the killer before he got them, in the long run more guns means more gun crime. You only ever hear of things like this happening in the us, because in sane countries its much more difficult to get hold of guns.

As for the argument "crazy people will always find a way to massacre people" that is probably true, but it is also true that the harder it is for them to do that the less likely it is to happen.

Look, you ignorant knuckle-dragger.  Do criminals follow laws?  Simple answer:  No.   Do law-abiding citizens follow laws?  By their very nature, the answer is: Yes.   So when the government passes a law saying no guns, who will actually turn in their guns?   Using the simplified answers before, try to follow me.  Who will follow the laws saying no guns?  The law abiding citizens.  Which leaves whom with ALL OF THE FREAKIN' WEAPONS?  The criminals, who ALREADY HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH MURDERING PEOPLE TO GET WHAT THEY WANT.  Now look, genius, all the "bad guys" have guns, and none of the "good guys" have any guns, except for an understaffed police force, who can't be everywhere at once.  So how do you think that's going to turn out?  Think before you speak, you stupid son-of-a-whore.  Disarming innocent civilians so that they are incapable of defending themselves against those who have no scruples is just like killing the people yourself.

Oh, and "saner countries"?  Did you forget that Britain banned almost every form of weapon from their country?  Their crime rate has skyrocketed past ours in EVERY SINGLE AREA since the ban, except murder, and that rate is rapidly catching up with ours.  The places with the highest crime rates (D.C., New York, etc.) are the places where carrying guns is banned, and carrying knives longer than three inches is taboo.  What do you tell the 5'5, 100 lb girl who's about to be raped by the 6'4, 225 lb man at gunpoint, when your stupid law is the reason she can't whip out her .357 magnum and save her life and chastity?  Give me one GOOD reason why weapons shouldn't be banned.  Tell me what you are going to say to this girl.

[Bullislander05]

Authorities now have reason to believe that in the 2 hour gap between shootings, the shooter went back to his dormitory, posted on his website/myspace/whatever he used for communication "I'm gonna kill a bunch of people at Virginia Tech today." and signed off.

Scary, huh?  I would feel very guilty if I had read that message before the second shooting.  Wouldn't you?

-Bull

[Anansi-Sama]

Yeah.  Man, that sucks.  Crazy people.

[Menace13]

I heard...And was freaked out. This fuckin' man killed his own classmates! But teh professor gave his life to let the kids out the window...They call him their hero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yp9KMfTR9k
Did that help anybody understand the seriousness?
:cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:
:cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  
:cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:
:cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:
:cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:
:cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  
:cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  

Post any kind of sad face here from this forum or any other, this is the worst tragedy since 9/11.

[Survivor]

I heard...And was freaked out. This fuckin' man killed his own classmates! But teh professor gave his life to let the kids out the window...They call him their hero.

Post any kind of sad face here from this forum or any other, this is the worst tragedy since 9/11.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/18/iraq.main/index.html

[Menace13]

I heard...And was freaked out. This fuckin' man killed his own classmates! But teh professor gave his life to let the kids out the window...They call him their hero.

Post any kind of sad face here from this forum or any other, this is the worst tragedy since 9/11.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/18/iraq.main/index.html

I meant in America. :cry:

[Seldom]

Authorities now have reason to believe that in the 2 hour gap between shootings, the shooter went back to his dormitory, posted on his website/myspace/whatever he used for communication "I'm gonna kill a bunch of people at Virginia Tech today." and signed off.

Scary, huh?  I would feel very guilty if I had read that message before the second shooting.  Wouldn't you?

-Bull

Um, bull. No. First off, link wherever you heard that.

1. They still havent confirmed he did both shootings
2. He never talked. He doesnt have a second life on the internet. I highly doubt an intraverted, solitary person would have a myspace.

Someone please delete Menaces smiley post.

[David]

Speaking of World Wars, who saved Europe's ass both times?  Ohhhhhhh yeah... that would be the United States of America.

Speaking of World Wars, who was too scared to get involved until the war was won? Oh yeah, the United States of Wimps.

[Plague Bringer]

Take your post to Anasi's thread.

[Matt Yee]

USSR won ( mostly ) Second World War, and America just defended itself.

[BeerBastard]

Damn guys I didnt mean to start a flame war.  Anyone who has read any U.S. History knows when you make something illeagle it just goes black market.  Ever hear of prohibition, they tried banning alcohal and it just opened up a huge black market for it.   This may not be true elsewhere but it is here.  I know C.S.I(the show) wants us all to believe that everyone who does a shooting uses a registered hand gun. This is bullshit.  

The thing about gun control tho is even if its easier to get one, We would have to change our views about guns from being killing instruments into being more defensive before average people would start getting them.  Right now it is almost taboo for a normal person to own a gun, unless they hunt or are in law inforcement.  

Also if no guns are allowed on campus, Shouldnt they inforce this?

[Seldom]

Breaking:

Between the two hour window of the first and second attacks, Cho sent a package to the NBC News network. The package was turned over to the police.

It contained letters of him rambling about getting even with rich people. Also contained a video of him brandishing several weapons.

Tune into NBC news tonight where they will show most of what was sent to them. Nothing else has been revealed about this.

[_Equilibrium_]

Look, you ignorant knuckle-dragger.  Do criminals follow laws?  Simple answer:  No.   Do law-abiding citizens follow laws?  By their very nature, the answer is: Yes.   So when the government passes a law saying no guns, who will actually turn in their guns?   Using the simplified answers before, try to follow me.  Who will follow the laws saying no guns?  The law abiding citizens.  Which leaves whom with ALL OF THE FREAKIN' WEAPONS?  The criminals, who ALREADY HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH MURDERING PEOPLE TO GET WHAT THEY WANT.  Now look, genius, all the "bad guys" have guns, and none of the "good guys" have any guns, except for an understaffed police force, who can't be everywhere at once.  So how do you think that's going to turn out?  Think before you speak, you stupid son-of-a-whore.  Disarming innocent civilians so that they are incapable of defending themselves against those who have no scruples is just like killing the people yourself.

Oh, and "saner countries"?  Did you forget that Britain banned almost every form of weapon from their country?  Their crime rate has skyrocketed past ours in EVERY SINGLE AREA since the ban, except murder, and that rate is rapidly catching up with ours.  The places with the highest crime rates (D.C., New York, etc.) are the places where carrying guns is banned, and carrying knives longer than three inches is taboo.  What do you tell the 5'5, 100 lb girl who's about to be raped by the 6'4, 225 lb man at gunpoint, when your stupid law is the reason she can't whip out her .357 magnum and save her life and chastity?  Give me one GOOD reason why weapons shouldn't be banned.  Tell me what you are going to say to this girl.

you are entitled to your opinions, bu tthere is no need to start insulting him just because you don't agree with him. i might have taken your post more seriously if you had not been bashing him.

[KobraKaine]

Speaking of World Wars, who saved Europe's ass both times?  Ohhhhhhh yeah... that would be the United States of America.

Speaking of World Wars, who was too scared to get involved until the war was won? Oh yeah, the United States of Wimps.

Oh yes, Britain was dealing with the situation handily... They came how close to being bombed off the face of the earth before we showed up and started giving the German's an actual fight?

USSR won ( mostly ) Second World War, and America just defended itself.

Right, we were definitely facing largescale German and Japanese invasions on our mainland.  Mhmm.

No, as I recall we sold Britain 3/4ths of their weapons and tanks, chased/napalmed the Japanese halfway across the world, and stormed the beaches of France to give the pussy Englishmen an actual foothold to fight back from.

[David]

Go read a history book.
You might need to learn to read first though, not sure how many adult books get made into abridged audio books.

[Plague Bringer]

David, what's with the flames, is that, like, your career path; asshole?

[KobraKaine]

Go read a history book.
You might need to learn to read first though, not sure how many adult books get made into abridged audio books.

Oh, you know all about adult books, don't you....?  

[Plague]

Speaking of World Wars, who saved Europe's ass both times?  Ohhhhhhh yeah... that would be the United States of America.

Speaking of World Wars, who was too scared to get involved until the war was won? Oh yeah, the United States of Wimps.

Oh yes, Britain was dealing with the situation handily... They came how close to being bombed off the face of the earth before we showed up and started giving the German's an actual fight?

USSR won ( mostly ) Second World War, and America just defended itself.

Right, we were definitely facing largescale German and Japanese invasions on our mainland.  Mhmm.

No, as I recall we sold Britain 3/4ths of their weapons and tanks, chased/napalmed the Japanese halfway across the world, and stormed the beaches of France to give the pussy Englishmen an actual foothold to fight back from.

Actually, the US played no role in the defense of Britain.  The Battle of Britain, the battle over the fate of Britain, was fought with Canadian and British pilots against German aircraft invasions.  As for dishing the British.. wtf?  The British did far more for the benefit of the Allies that America did by many multitudes.

David, what's with the flames, is that, like, your career path; asshole?

What's yours, Trem forums resident spammer/originator of irrelevent replies?

[Undeference]

Godwin's Law... we're almost there. I give it another few hours.

[Plague]

Godwin's Law... we're almost there. I give it another few hours.

Hitler sucks.

[janev]

:roll: Stay on topic this is supposed to be a serious thread :roll:

[offtopic] Kobrakaine: americas involvement in ww2 wasn't that black and white. I am no expert on the matter and this is not the right place for such a conversation. As david pointed out there are many books on the subject which you should probably take a look at before drawing conclusions. [offtopic]

[KobraKaine]

Stay on topic this is supposed to be a serious thread

Thanks for the nudge, I was waaaay off topic.   :oops:

Can't blame me for defending my country tho.  (What the hell kind of history books do you guys have over in Europe, anyway?  Must've been written by monks on crack, or something...)

Sorry, just had to throw in that last dig.  

So Seldom, any more news on the people who got wounded by the gunman?  Are they all still alive?  I had heard the media was going after the guy's family pretty hard... that's gotta suck, cuz I doubt they had anything to do with his rampage.

[Plague]

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/04/17/injured-shooting.html

Gives conditions of the wounded.

The Media is going to hound that family to death about details of Cho's life, childhood, upbringing, interests, etc.

[KobraKaine]

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/04/17/injured-shooting.html

Gives conditions of the wounded.

The Media is going to hound that family to death about details of Cho's life, childhood, upbringing, interests, etc.

Hopefully they leave it there.  I'm definitely going to be pissed if they harass his family...