Author Topic: God Bless The U.S. of A.  (Read 56451 times)

floodbud

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h
« Reply #150 on: May 04, 2007, 05:53:22 pm »
Quote from: "Survivor"
evolutionary theory does not determine age of this hunk o rock. Carbon dating does.


True story, on the news:
A lady made a bust (stone sculpture)...not modeled after anyone in particular.  Then she went out and hid it in the forest, nobody knows why.  Scientists found it and carbon dated it, finding it to be many thousand years old.
Here comes the lady, she correctly identifies the bust without any doubt that she knows what it looks like, and she made it just a few weeks ago.

Carbon dating is a load of BS.

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Survivor

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« Reply #151 on: May 04, 2007, 05:58:07 pm »
link it please.
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sleekslacker

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« Reply #152 on: May 04, 2007, 06:02:49 pm »
Lungs are muscles ? You make science cat cry :,(
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Anansi-Sama

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« Reply #153 on: May 04, 2007, 06:13:01 pm »
Quote from: "Survivor"
Can I please ask what this railroad track is you mention? Is it for example a disease or are you referring to the divine judgment upon death (heaven or hell).


I refer to eternal death, a.k.a. Hell.  Thanks, I forgot to clarify.
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KobraKaine

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« Reply #154 on: May 04, 2007, 06:13:21 pm »
Quote from: "Survivor"
And your lung example is not one of evolution but exercise and adaptation in a single lifetime, that's not how evolution works.


Exactly my point.  You can't use it as proof of evolutionary theory.

Survivor

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« Reply #155 on: May 04, 2007, 06:30:16 pm »
Quote from: "KobraKaine"
Quote from: "Survivor"
And your lung example is not one of evolution but exercise and adaptation in a single lifetime, that's not how evolution works.


Exactly my point.  You can't use it as proof of evolutionary theory.


Lung capacity would be evolution in the water world where it would be an advantage passed on to the children. Lung capacity increase in a single life would not.
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Plague Bringer

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« Reply #156 on: May 04, 2007, 08:12:37 pm »
Quote from: "Anansi-Sama"
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
A theory is a helluva lot more believable then a bunch of here-say from people who believe in a supernatural being because they need to feel love, and an inner strength.

According to this theory, the world is approxomately four-point-five billion years of age. What's your point?


Since by God's very nature, God is omnipotent, he could have created the world yesterday, and you wouldn't be able to know the difference.  The reason we can't prove God's existence is that our efforts are those of three or four dimensional beings trying to perceive beyond the fifth.  Here's an illustration.  Let's say you have created a world of two dimensional people called "Flatties", on a sheet of paper.  The Flatties can percieve direction sideways, but there is no up or down for them.  They can't perceive the third dimension.  They can sometimes hear you speak, but there is no concrete way for them to prove you exist, since they can't look up out of their paper and see you.  That doesn't mean that you aren't there though.  You can see them, you can affect them, you can speak to them.  But no one will ever see you, unless you touch the paper.  Even then, they will only be able to perceive one single plane of your entire being.  The same holds true to God, only on a more complicated scale.  We exist in three dimensions, four if you count time as the fourth dimension.  God exists so far beyond our perception that we could not prove he was there, even if we worked a thousand years trying.  The only reason we can believe in him is because sometimes he speaks to us.  The truth of faith is bound up in its name.  It's belief without proof.  It's a higher calling to a purpose that not everyone else can see, but that still exists.  

If you have been bound, blindfolded and gagged and are lying on the railroad tracks, denying that a train will eventually come because you can't see it won't make a difference.  And if someone who has the power to save you is there, and you can't see them, wouldn't you rather take a leap of faith, and in total helplessness, ask for their help?  Or would you rather take your chances with the train?

[and bringer, I say this with no disrespect.  just a thought.  take it for what it's worth]


You insist that god is real, people who are high on, say, magic mushrooms, say that their hallusinations(sp) are real. You look to your higher power when you are in need of help because you are too weak to accept that you are on your own and there is no god to hold your hand. Although that is harsh, it is what I believe. God cannot exist, for if he did, do you believe there would be thousands of children dying every day? Thousands of homeless in every city begging for change on cold, winter nights? The terrorism, the war, do you really think that if there was a god he would let this happen?

I believe in a spirits and the supernatural, I just dont go to extremes, I know that this earth was created naturally as were we. I know that if I pray some bullshit higher power isn't going to come and help me. That's a load of shit. There's nothing out there, untill I witness a miracle, there will be nothing out there for me.

Also, I would ask for help, but know that it wasn't god, because god doesn't exist. That's a bad example, anyway, I would never be bound to railway tracks, and if I was, there would be no prince charming to come save me. You believe in these fairy tales because you have nothing else to believe in, you are tied to your so-called god and that's stopping you from living. You go to church to hear people speak to you for god when they're just there talking bullshit.

Tell me, if I said I had found a book that was written by the devel, would you believe there was a devil? There is no reason to believe in god, it's in your head. Shake it off, get real, accept that you're alone, and grow up.

[[Although harsh, this is honest, and it's a valid argument, I expect flames, I expect counter arguments, but please do not feed me "when you die god'll be pissed and send ya down" shit, I don't want to hear it untill you prove, or even find a bit of evidence, that the big man in the sky exists]]
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Survivor

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« Reply #157 on: May 04, 2007, 08:43:07 pm »
Quote from: "Anansi-Sama"
Quote from: "Survivor"
Can I please ask what this railroad track is you mention? Is it for example a disease or are you referring to the divine judgment upon death (heaven or hell).


I refer to eternal death, a.k.a. Hell.  Thanks, I forgot to clarify.


In that case I'd think the following.
(Assuming he exists) He's the one who put me on the track, and if I should beg him to help me off it I'd rather die proud than satisfy the sadistical bastard.


Quote from: "Anansi-Sama"
If you have been bound, blindfolded and gagged and are lying on the railroad tracks, denying that a train will eventually come because you can't see it won't make a difference. And if someone who has the power to save you is there, and you can't see them, wouldn't you rather take a leap of faith, and in total helplessness, ask for their help? Or would you rather take your chances with the train?


Also this is not true faith. This is "I'll believe because I don't know for certain if he exists, but if he exists I'd better be believing or he will send me to hell." True fearmongering, upon which most religions are based.
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Plague Bringer

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« Reply #158 on: May 04, 2007, 08:49:05 pm »
Quote from: "Survivor"
Quote from: "Anansi-Sama"
If you have been bound, blindfolded and gagged and are lying on the railroad tracks, denying that a train will eventually come because you can't see it won't make a difference. And if someone who has the power to save you is there, and you can't see them, wouldn't you rather take a leap of faith, and in total helplessness, ask for their help? Or would you rather take your chances with the train?


Also this is not true faith. This is "I'll believe because I don't know for certain if he exists, but if he exists I'd better be believing or he will send me to hell." True fearmongering, upon which most religions are based.


{clarification} That's one of the points I was trying to make, alot of religions say 'believe or you will go to hell', and you guys are so easy, you succumb too quickly without proof, that isn't faith, that's fear.
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f0rqu3

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« Reply #159 on: May 04, 2007, 08:54:40 pm »
what can I say ignorance is bliss. I placed bible in my list of assumptions. I neglect scientific facts. I create my own degenerated scientific facts.

they all make a happy man. I don't need to use my brain because bible does it for me.

Plague Bringer

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« Reply #160 on: May 04, 2007, 08:56:40 pm »
I know I'm going to regret responding to you, but you (for once) have made a good point. Now trash your account and stop while you're ahead.
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f0rqu3

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« Reply #161 on: May 04, 2007, 09:03:22 pm »
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
I know I'm going to regret responding to you, but you (for once) have made a good point. Now trash your account and stop while you're ahead.

haha what a loser

AKAnotu

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« Reply #162 on: May 05, 2007, 12:59:37 am »
if god exists, what gives him the right to judge people like this (heaven/hell)? after all, doesn't he say not to judge, lest ye be judged? and yet because of his supposed power, we call him the ultimate good so that we get on his good side, and go to heaven out of greed? shouldn't he send suck ups like that to hell as greed is a sin? should god send himself to hell, but wouldn't that make him evil?
-partial reasons why the bible is crap

@floodbud
link? proof? until then, it's like the bible.

@kobrakane
lung capacity? a bunch of bs. you clearly don't understand the theory of evolution enough to argue agianst it, and if you did, you'd be convinced that it was true.

i'll give you an example
there is a competiton between the manatee and a reed it likes to eat. the reeds contain silica, which grind down manatee teeth. therefore, the reeds with more silica survive, because without teeth the manatees can't eat and die off. sound correct, right? cant argue against that, right? therefore, the manatees with thicker teeth survive, because they can eat. the reeds keep getting more silica and the manatees keep getting thicker teeth because the reeds with more silica and the thicker teeth manatees survive more often. that is evolution.

@kobrakane
endangered species and global warming are two of the stupidest, most ignorant things brought up against evolution. you say that we should keep destroying the environment because that's what evolution makes us do. you think that people could of evolved to have a natrual species extinction gene sequence, or a fossil fuel burning gene? that is just plain stupidity. you think that evolution could have made that? give me backup that there would be a possible environment that encourages that sort of thing, and i'll believe you

@a heck of a lot of people I can't be bothered to name
you say that you should believe, because it's a win-win situation, when in many cases, believing actually obstructs nessicary and/or vital research or experinents, so that by believing, your hindering, not helping

we may seem to be getting extremely flamey, but that's because your getting extremely stupid. excuse us educated people.

in concluision: http://www.xkcd.com/c154.html

Plague Bringer

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« Reply #163 on: May 05, 2007, 01:20:39 am »
I agree with Anotu on his point that you seem to be changing the topic in an attempt to replace the pressure of explaining why the bible is fact.
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ShadowNinjaDudeMan

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« Reply #164 on: May 05, 2007, 07:00:08 am »
Well, a large change in lung capacity is called Variation.
If this person successfully mates, it will most likely be passed down to their children, and it most probably will continue if there is a need for it.
If the nature and nurture encourage it, then it will be so.
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ShadowNinjaDudeMan

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« Reply #165 on: May 05, 2007, 07:00:24 am »
Whoops, double post.
My Bad. Actually it was the forum's fault.
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sleekslacker

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« Reply #166 on: May 05, 2007, 09:33:26 am »
Quote

we may seem to be getting extremely flamey, but that's because your getting extremely stupid. excuse us educated people.


That, just denied any value of your opinion.
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Plague Bringer

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« Reply #167 on: May 05, 2007, 01:12:40 pm »
How-so? He makes a point. You are running in blind faith for no reason. That's being stupid.
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sleekslacker

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« Reply #168 on: May 05, 2007, 01:20:36 pm »
Have you seen how an atoms looks like ? No ? Then how come you believe that the world consists of atoms ? You are no different from the religious group, believing in something you have not witnessed yourself. Calling people stupid while being ignorant doesn't help getting the others to agree with your view.
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Plague Bringer

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« Reply #169 on: May 05, 2007, 01:58:45 pm »
I believe it because there is a shitload of evidence behind it. The only evidence behind god is the bible, and that's not very good evidence.
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sleekslacker

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« Reply #170 on: May 05, 2007, 03:04:07 pm »
You have seen neither god nor atom. I don't think you understand the evidences behind them either.
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Plague Bringer

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« Reply #171 on: May 05, 2007, 03:18:02 pm »
I understand that science is not proven, but as I have said, there's a shitload of scientific evidence. You really think they're feeding us crap?

Convince me that your argument is correct, you haven't been doing any of that for a while.

I don't think you understand how debates work.
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AKAnotu

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« Reply #172 on: May 05, 2007, 04:25:10 pm »
Quote from: "sleekslacker"
Have you seen how an atoms looks like ? No ? Then how come you believe that the world consists of atoms ? You are no different from the religious group, believing in something you have not witnessed yourself. Calling people stupid while being ignorant doesn't help getting the others to agree with your view.

actually, we have seen what atoms look like. sillicon atoms to be precise
edit: ...this thread's kinda slow lately

floodbud

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hey
« Reply #173 on: May 07, 2007, 06:35:23 pm »
Quote from: "Survivor"
link it please.


What the heck, if you're interested Google it.  I saw it, I don't need to prove it (but it did happen, i swear)

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tuple

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« Reply #174 on: May 07, 2007, 06:44:17 pm »
If you are not willing to source your claims, you should not make them.  
Quote from: "floodbud"
I swear

We don't know you, so this means nothing.  No offense, the same goes the other way I realize.

Survivor

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Re: hey
« Reply #175 on: May 07, 2007, 09:15:45 pm »
Quote from: "floodbud"
Quote from: "Survivor"
link it please.


What the heck, if you're interested Google it.  I saw it, I don't need to prove it (but it did happen, i swear)

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If you wish to convince other people link it. If it's just for your own belief don't mention it in a discussion with people who expect deduction and not hearsay.
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AKAnotu

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« Reply #176 on: May 07, 2007, 09:49:00 pm »
speaking of linking, if anyone wants the picture of the silicone atom, contact me. i'd be happy to scan it in my computer and email it

sleekslacker

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« Reply #177 on: May 07, 2007, 11:23:00 pm »
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
I understand that science is not proven, but as I have said, there's a shitload of scientific evidence. You really think they're feeding us crap?


You have not seen the evidence. You have heard of the evidence. Until you repeat the experiments yourself and see the evidence with your own eyes, you can't blame the religious for believing in god after hearing a damn awesome miraculous story. You are talking about popularity, I am talking about the truth. Try to open your mind a bit. Maybe you will notice what actually define science.

Quote

Convince me that your argument is correct, you haven't been doing any of that for a while.

I don't think you understand how debates work.


Because debating with somebody with all the wrong kind of information & conclusions is pointless. You can only put the facts in their face and see if they know what you are talking about.

Quote
actually, we have seen what atoms look like. sillicon atoms to be precise


You too. Have you heard of Theory of Knowledge ? That's the most basic class you should take to understand about Philosophy and Knowledge.

If you can believe that atoms exist because there is a picture of them in your school book, why not believe that god exists ? I could draw the bible into a pictured story book and you might damn well believe it's true.
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Plague Bringer

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« Reply #178 on: May 07, 2007, 11:32:00 pm »
Proof.

Proof.

Evidence.

Give them to us, we will then, and only then, open our minds.

Perhaps you make a valid point, perhaps we are being illogical, but, come on, you're not?
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tuple

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« Reply #179 on: May 07, 2007, 11:49:20 pm »
Quote from: "sleekslacker"
Have you heard of Theory of Knowledge ?


I love Epistemology
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't consider it the most basic class.  You should study basic logic first, as epistemology will seem quite confused if you don't have a firm grasp of logic, a subject many people think they grasp but really don't (myself included :) ). A good, and more fun start would be to study logical falacies, the method of finding idiots, even the idiot in you! :P