Freeze Tag

[Risujin]

TinMan PM'd me suggesting we port Freeze Tag to Tremulous. Technically not very difficult and since this is a very team-oriented mod to begin with, it may work. What do the people think? Would you play this mod?

An overview of Freeze Tag:
http://freeze.planetquake.gamespy.com/

The largest problem with porting this mod is the rounds game mechanic. In Quake there is no problem with playing multiple rounds per map--both teams just respawn. In Tremulous, this doesn't work. You would have to restart the map completely to restore buildings. Is there a way around this?

[khalsa]

Do I smell a !layout hack?



Khalsa

[David]

hmm.
looks interesting.
Just not sure about the balance with the humans and aliens.

Aliens can hide much better, and move faster, so it will be very hard to freeze all of them, as the last will just run away.

Also, I'm in your base, I get unfrozen, and killed again, along with the person who defrosted me.   This would make base attack imposable.

[Risujin]

Do I smell a !layout hack?

Nope. I don't have a technical problem with respawning the bases, but I think it would be really lousy to build a big base, get an attack party going, have everybody rush out and get frozen solid. Map restarts and the nice base is gone!

Also what would eggs do? You spawn once and then you can't die unless you fall off a cliff or get crushed. Interestingly, you wouldn't need to be worried about telenodes or eggs ... as long as you keep a powered armory or an OM up, you're capable of freezing the enemy team.

Another problem with not dying as often -- what if you want to respawn as a Granger or evolve to a lower class? This kind of shafts the Aliens. Perhaps we could allow devolve by the OM?

[David]

Also, why would the aliens even need a base?
Other than a booster?

And what happens when I die, and no one is around?
I foresee boredom.

[f0rqu3]

I dont understand the problem. you kill a tyrant it will freeze till some alien defroze it. same goes for buildables acid tubrets freeze till someone defroze.

game ends if the all aliens are frozen
and frozen reactor -> no power
frozen turret -> no fire ... so on

[kozak6]

Do you really need multiple rounds per map?  If an entire team got frozen, why not just declare a win and move on to the next map?

I wonder how it would play.  It would seem like it would make the human's automated defenses and camping disproportionately more powerful.

If, as a dretch, a turret gets you, you are basically stuck there until a team member destroys that turret which will generally take until S2 or S3.

How much health do frozen players get when thawed?

[TinMan]

My idea is that you are frozen when an enemy "kills" you. The exceptions to this would be 0 evo aliens and humans with $0 of equipment, you would just be put into respawn with a timer for your death. You could freeze structures, but they can't freeze you, you'd just die.
It sort of relates to a real game of trem, if you don't want to feed and suffer (=being frozen) then you try to die by a structure kill, not by an enemy. Dying after spending 0 credits is no sweat, so neither should it be in the mod.

Some of these other ideas sound good too, I hadn't thought of freezing structures originally, but that would make it more trem-like which is cool.

I don't see the Alien's speed vs. Human's weapon guns thing being affected by this gameplay any more than on a usual game, if someone could explain their thoughts about this to me I'd appreciate it. If there is an unbalance it could possibly be evened out by alien or human thaw time.

[Risujin]

same goes for buildables acid tubrets freeze till someone defroze.

Interesting.

The exceptions to this would be 0 evo aliens and humans with $0 of equipment, you would just be put into respawn with a timer for your death. You could freeze structures, but they can't freeze you, you'd just die.

Uh ... hmm. That doesn't seem quite right. If I buy body armor for 70c I get frozen and can't respawn but if I dretch around I can respawn no problem? Freezing is a big penalty.

[whitebear]

In freeze tag we had on mohaa (medal of honnor allied assault) it was great fun and I almost only played it  if you don't count some bazooka n00bing dms in one spific map.
I thought of freeze tag in tremulous but there is many things that might unbalance it too much.
Classic FT Is melted on contact while newer version has also lazer melting (use button in mohaa)
also newest variation of this is called team-tag where any player can melt any other on close contact to gain the player in same team (team with 0 players loses)

Some of changes I would like in port (note: argues with TinMan's ideas):
for FT:
-structures do not freeze
-Any death freezes you
-All corpses glow (if possible for easy notice)
-Range melting takes double time (lazer beam is visible to everyone so the melter can be spoted.)
-Melting takes 3 seconds by touching
-If all players are frozen opposing team gets next stage unless s3 then they win. (all frozen then they go to respawn gue)
OverView: Best teamwork and strategy wins in games of +2 players/team.

[TinMan]

I'm good with anything as long as there's a time limit on the freeze so you don't get bored.  
I really like in UT2K4 how you can spec yourself in 3rd person and others on your team while you are frozen.

[Risujin]

The problem that I can't get over is the base. If all but one player is frozen, and if say, we give stages for freezing the opposite team, then why should one team go for the stage ... ever? Why not just freeze all but one player and then destroy the base?

Also about team-tag ... team with 0 players loses? No one ever loses? xD

[Somtin]

Hey, how about making the adv lisk shoot ice blobs that freeze things. Freeze the armoury so you cant open it, freeze the medi, freeze a turret so it cant move, only fire etc etc

[f0rqu3]

freeze tag
kill -> freeze -> happy childhood

if you kill something it is not killed but frozen

win condition: noone to tawn

also if the om is frozen you can let aliens die for real and they need to spawn back ... if there is an egg of course

[Risujin]

also if the om is frozen you can let aliens die for real and they need to spawn back ... if there is an egg of course

But ... my happy childhood!!

Thawing buildables would be kind of easy. Goon snipes a turret ... just sit on it like you already were?

[whitebear]

How About if all players are frozen a timer of high value (long time ^^) starts runing that melts everyone in the team. If the timer is minute or something then it should be enough for avarage team to atleast give atempt to kill the base.
This game mode could also have hud object that shows all players frozen in your team and if location noded map then location in pair of symbols ( [(" or any other type). OR have loadout icon in score board that symbolizes the frozen state. although lucy symbol looks too much like it already. ^^
Also the glow of frozen corpse could react both teams but with difrent color and enemy can't melt it. This prevents hiding in the model. (dreches in any corpse and humans in tyrant.)

[Risujin]

Yeah adapting the scoreboard isn't difficult.

Actually another problem is that, a frozen teammate doesn't turn into a corpse ... its not "ghost-tag" (although the idea of wandering about dead could work for another mod). The player just freezes but remains solid. No one could hide in a frozen player. But you could use frozen players to block doorways.  :-?

[f0rqu3]

Yeah adapting the scoreboard isn't difficult.

Actually another problem is that, a frozen teammate doesn't turn into a corpse ... its not "ghost-tag" (although the idea of wandering about dead could work for another mod). The player just freezes but remains solid. No one could hide in a frozen player. But you could use frozen players to block doorways.  :-?

but players should be able to shove them. that how it works in quake. so no one blocks doors and corridors

[Risujin]

but players should be able to shove them. that how it works in quake. so no one blocks doors and corridors

You'd have to be able to pull a frozen player. I can imagine aliens wanting to block the window room doorway by getting a tyrant killed and propping him up with an acid or something.

[whitebear]

In MoHAA this is done by removing player corpse and model also replaced by no collide model of player with three vertical lazer beams around the model in triangel formation. these lazers are colored red/blue depending of team and turn into yellow/cyan when are being melted and purple when oppsing team is inside melting area.

I have never played q3 freeze tag so I don't know difrence. Mohaa has these difrences probly coz there can also be freeze tag game in objective based maps. (no players as road block)

The player also go in third person view when frozen and can cycle through all team members (easy way to find frozen friends location)

[mooseberry]

I vote yes.

[Seldom]

I've been getting bored w/ trem. If this were to be made, I would probably spend most of my time playing freeze tag :>

[whitebear]

Well freeze-tag was only thing that kept me playing mohaa for two years.