Poll

Include an old style Quake hook?

Yes.
7 (26.9%)
No.
5 (19.2%)
Yes, and include location mines for aliens as well.
5 (19.2%)
No, but I want the location mines for aliens.
1 (3.8%)
Go away! I've had enough of your cowbell already.
8 (30.8%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Voting closed: May 14, 2007, 09:01:29 pm

Author Topic: How about a grapple hook?  (Read 8059 times)

treminator

  • Posts: 198
  • Turrets: +0/-0
How about a grapple hook?
« on: May 14, 2007, 09:01:29 pm »
I think I've mentioned it somewhere before, but why not a +hook for humans? You can still keep the jetpack too.

As I see it, not many people fully utilize wallwalk on aliens (even after all these years of playing tremulous).  To encourage it (and counter balance the grapplers or jetpackers) - give dretches and basilisks a location charge they can leave on walls (or even floors).  Just like the invisible mines Vultures can leave in Starcraft, when a human passes by them, it sets them off in pursuit like a hive (self detonating after a time limit).  You would only get two or three location mines, which disappear or detonate after some inactivity period.  Plus, you could also suspend mines in mid air, jumping off a high wall for instance - great for knocking down jetpackers in Karith (watch them fall and try to grapple to safety).

The S2 radar would make them visible too, allowing you to shoot them.  I think it would make playing lower class aliens a little more fun, as well as adding some fast paced fun to humans as well.

Lava Croft

  • Guest
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2007, 09:15:45 pm »
No fucking way.

Plague Bringer

  • Posts: 3815
  • Turrets: +147/-187
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2007, 09:24:25 pm »
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
No fucking way.
Why?
U R A Q T

Lava Croft

  • Guest
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2007, 09:35:09 pm »
I don't have to a supply a reason why it shouldn't be added, you should give DarkLegion a reason to add it. Naturally, you cannot supply such a reason because the whole idea of a grapple is just plain stupid since the Humans already have a Jetpack.

doomagent13

  • Posts: 506
  • Turrets: +18/-18
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2007, 10:15:26 pm »
Jetpack is slow though, and a grappling hook would be hard to use.  If it is added, it will need effects on aliens properly implemented, and damage from swinging into a wall.  Mines would be useful, but give them to basis ONLY!!  Make more people use basi/adv basi. :D   Probably wouldnt happen often, but grapple could help save jettards who were jettarding when the reac went down--not from the sea of aliens, but just from the ground.

kevlarman

  • Posts: 2737
  • Turrets: +291/-295
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2007, 12:40:43 am »
Quote from: "doomagent13"
Jetpack is slow though, and a grappling hook would be hard to use.  If it is added, it will need effects on aliens properly implemented, and damage from swinging into a wall.  Mines would be useful, but give them to basis ONLY!!  Make more people use basi/adv basi. :D   Probably wouldnt happen often, but grapple could help save jettards who were jettarding when the reac went down--not from the sea of aliens, but just from the ground.
basi/adv. basi don't need buffs, they are pretty close to overpowered already.
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----

Lava Croft

  • Guest
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2007, 12:50:30 am »
Quote from: "kevlarman"
buffs, they are pretty close to overpowered already.

Totally seconded, Both forms of the Basilisk are rather powerful in the current gameplay changes.

TriedtoDestroyMetal

  • Posts: 123
  • Turrets: +0/-1
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2007, 01:12:07 am »
Why not give aliens a grapple hook, huh?
img]http://image.listen.com/img/356x237/7/1/0/4/504017_356x237.jpg[/img]

Lava Croft

  • Guest
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2007, 02:28:15 am »
Quote from: "TriedtoDestroyMetal"
Why not give aliens a grapple hook, huh?

You mean this?

TriedtoDestroyMetal

  • Posts: 123
  • Turrets: +0/-1
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2007, 02:57:26 am »
yeah, but with anisotropic filtering
img]http://image.listen.com/img/356x237/7/1/0/4/504017_356x237.jpg[/img]

kevlarman

  • Posts: 2737
  • Turrets: +291/-295
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2007, 04:09:54 am »
Quote from: "TriedtoDestroyMetal"
Why not give aliens a grapple hook, huh?
because timbo stole that variable for wallwalking normals
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----

Taiyo.uk

  • Posts: 2309
  • Turrets: +222/-191
    • Haos Redro
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2007, 05:53:21 am »
There are no Tremulous maps that were designed for a game with grappling hooks. Humans already have jetpacks, and aliens already have class-specific wallwalk, walljump and pounce capabilities.

player1

  • Posts: 3062
  • Turrets: +527/-401
    • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
I wholeheartedly agree...
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2007, 06:46:39 am »
Quote from: "Taiyo.uk"
There are no Tremulous maps that were designed for a game with grappling hooks. Humans already have jetpacks, and aliens already have class-specific wallwalk, walljump and pounce capabilities.


QFT! <3 8]

@OP: even though a grappling hook or an alien minelayer sounds cool
try the many varieties of Tremulous that you can already play...

;p

Lord Baxter

  • Posts: 116
  • Turrets: +1/-3
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2007, 09:20:30 am »
look at this from a real-world kind of view, why would a military force invest in a grappling hook for close-quarters fighting, and how the fuck would aliens have mines? military surplus?
quot;Unless you count the Chinese. But at this point, NOBODY can count the Chinese."

Known as Hydra ingame,
1227 apparently, can't change that now...

TriedtoDestroyMetal

  • Posts: 123
  • Turrets: +0/-1
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2007, 01:28:39 pm »
Yeah, we need to look at it from a more realistic point of view!!!  :roll:
img]http://image.listen.com/img/356x237/7/1/0/4/504017_356x237.jpg[/img]

treminator

  • Posts: 198
  • Turrets: +0/-0
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2007, 02:20:07 pm »
No tremulous maps were designed for a grappling hook?? Show me one quake map that was.  By your reasoning, how many maps were truly designed for the mass driver zoom?  Or jetpack?

The point is: the hook is neither a lame duck weapon addition or a use it all the time requirement or necessity.

Why a grappling hook?  

1. As I see it, tremulous moves to slow - slow in the sense that game progression towards the objectives (killing enemy base) never occurs until SD (for the vast majority of games and servers I frequent).  I think a hook would encourage some movement (or at least a few brave attempts) around the many alien camp fests just outside hum base.  Are 45 minute games really what tremulous was designed for? Granted, it seems like it just evolved into it rather nicely over time (as server player slots grew).  There's nothing wrong with that per say, but I just come from a different perspective of game play.

2. Like it or not, the bunny hop physics exploit on other games does encourage player progression (well beyond the tab tapping and kill whoring fluff fests most who've played trem long enough engage in).  So, why not a grapple hook as a parallel enticement?

3. Even without the alien mine addition, a grapple hook by itself would not jeopardize current class or race balance.  How many of us have already been through at least 4 of those revisions and modifications for balance? The hook need not be fast either.  It could also have some delay in between successive hook attempts.  One goon could easily hunt down a fleeing hooker, especially when he sees the slow linear path they will take.

4. The alien mines would not be terribly effective either.  When they go off, they would pop 2 to 7 points off hum health, but more importantly, knock down or stun hookers and jetpackers.

5. ???

6. Fun!

Just think of the possibilities for 6 - a caravan of hookers at S2 takes turns behind the others, swinging into an alien lair for some nade depth charge runs.  Or...

Ranger

  • Posts: 101
  • Turrets: +0/-0
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2007, 03:40:54 pm »
What would be the ideal cooldown on something like this?
img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/KoldShip/marau.png[/img]


The MC Horton Crankfire

  • Posts: 273
  • Turrets: +18/-79
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2007, 03:44:22 pm »
Quote from: "treminator"
but more importantly, knock down or stun hookers and jetpackers.

Oh, now we have to do it, just so we can call them hookers. And talk of killing them.
Caveman's positiveness and encouragement finally broke the max signature size!

Quote from: Dr. Seuss
And what happened then...?
Well...in Who-ville they say
That the Grinch's small heart
Grew three sizes that day!

Glunnator

  • Posts: 865
  • Turrets: +5/-6
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2007, 05:59:33 pm »
Quote from: "Taiyo.uk"
There are no Tremulous maps that were designed for a game with grappling hooks. Humans already have jetpacks, and aliens already have class-specific wallwalk, walljump and pounce capabilities.
Did any of you guys even read this? Taiyo has the best frikkin' point there is to make!
--=STOP BRINGING IN USELESS IDEAS FOR TREM! WE ALLREADY HAVE WHAT WE NEED!=--

Of course, for those spidey-fans, someone could make a mod with aliens and humans each having their own kind of grapple. I doubt any of the maps will support it too well though.

Quote from: (Cebt)Glunnator
HAVE FUN PPL, IT'S THE MEANING OF LIFE TO LOOK AT THE BRIGHT SIDE OF IT! ;)

treminator

  • Posts: 198
  • Turrets: +0/-0
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2007, 08:59:20 pm »
Quote from: "Glunnator"
--=STOP BRINGING IN USELESS IDEAS FOR TREM! WE ALLREADY HAVE WHAT WE NEED!=--

How is this useless?

I don't know how far removed the trem code is from the original Quake 3 source released, but adding the grappling hook was just about a 15 to 20 line patch to two files, g_client.c and ui_controls.c, to turn it on.  Also, there are many Q3 mods already out there for a grappling hook (with the source code readily available).

I just thought it would be (hopefully) something simple to implement versus an entirely new weapon, class, or other doodad which others have offered.  If you don't have the fever for more cowbell, that option is up there too.

If some aspiring server op where to implement this, I think you'd have a trickle of interest turn into a dedicated following (at least for a spell).  Shoot, I'd even play aliens all the time on that server just to see it in action from others.

treminator

  • Posts: 198
  • Turrets: +0/-0
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2007, 09:11:31 pm »
Quote from: "Ranger"
What would be the ideal cooldown on something like this?

Good question.  I guess like a stamina depletion bar, the further you shoot, the more it consumes.  Or, no cooldown but each shot keeps you stuck there for (say) 3 seconds.

Either way, use of the hook makes you susceptible to attack from an alien.  The full second to actually aim and shoot it versus actually dodging and fighting with a weapon may work to your detriment as well.  Plus, the linear path you take makes for tasty goon sandwiches.

durand

  • Posts: 201
  • Turrets: +0/-0
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2007, 09:41:47 pm »
I like the idea...sounds like it will make gameplay faster...  :roll:

David

  • Spam Killer
  • *
  • Posts: 3543
  • Turrets: +249/-273
How about a grapple hook?
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2007, 11:43:47 pm »
Quote from: "treminator"
I don't know how far removed the trem code is from the original Quake 3 source released, but adding the grappling hook was just about a 15 to 20 line patch to two files, g_client.c and ui_controls.c, to turn it on.  Also, there are many Q3 mods already out there for a grappling hook (with the source code readily available).


If its that easy, find it, and make a working diff off the tremulous SVN, and add a cvar so server ops can toggle it.  upload it to the MG patch tracker, and some server some where will run it.
Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
--
My words are mine and mine alone.  I can't speak for anyone else, and there is no one who can speak for me.  If I ever make a post that gives the opinions or positions of other users or groups, then they will be clearly labeled as such.
I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.