Great change for human

[Ceaser342]

Those whole thread is obsolete because it assumes the Alien team is stronger than the Human team, which is incorrect. The problem, as stated above, lies in the fact that most Humans lack the common sense to go out in small groups.

Or all the humans in the group suck and I get 3 kills in 5 seconds and there like WTF h4x when I goon there base.

[xyblor]

59% of wins go to aliens on the Fragify public server.

Please don't force me to jump in circles.

[IabzO.o]

Ok, for all those who talk about staying in a group: I was talking about clan match, but if you think a group of human can "own" a group of alien just because they are in a group, then you guys are wrong, or maybe you just don't use the alien correctly, and for your information, teamplay isn't all about staying in a pack and shooting everywhere.

Henners: Alien S1=Tyrant? Also, I never said that if you can dodge you can kill a tyrant, I said, if you can aim but can't dodge, then you have no chance against a tyrant.

[David]

What servers do you play on?

[IabzO.o]

I don't play much anymore, exept in scrim since I find no more interess in public game, if you feel like playing me, you can scrim NT.

[Plague Bringer]

Ok, for all those who talk about staying in a group: I was talking about clan match, but if you think a group of human can "own" a group of alien just because they are in a group, then you guys are wrong, or maybe you just don't use the alien correctly, and for your information, teamplay isn't all about staying in a pack and shooting everywhere.

Henners: Alien S1=Tyrant? Also, I never said that if you can dodge you can kill a tyrant, I said, if you can aim but can't dodge, then you have no chance against a tyrant.

Your original arguments was that humans can't dodge well at S1. To back up your argument you spoke of the S3 alien, the Tyrant.

[IabzO.o]

No it wasn't, my argument was that S1 human doesn't have head protection, nor a radar. So against saying "why don't you put human a helmet in S1" I though about something to counter the ground headshot, since many player already jump, but they can't alway do it because of the lack of stamina. So it's like saying "Why don't you guys add more stamina to the human so they can jump more often" Wich is what they will probably do in the 1.2, All I'm asking is if they can put it unlimited while deacreasing the armor, I also don't see why this post started to be an Alien vs Human S1 S2 S3 thread, and a You-can't-aim-at-all-stay-grouped thread, this is only my "Suggestion" while giving some reason why I'd like to see this change being aply.

[Megaman]

If humans would use their stamina wisely, there would be no reason to increase it.  This is not halo or quake, this is much closer to real life than that.  Have you ever tried to jump repeatedly while shooting aliens and running for your life?  Have you ever just jumped that high over and over?

It is tiring, and the stamina bar is a good, solid representation of getting tired.

These men are not super men, they wear down.


P.S.  If you would shoot the aliens, Iabz, jumping from their ground headshots would not be an issue.

[n00b pl0x]

please let real life references die.

[blood2.0]

3 shotguns can own anything besides stutures and its easy to doge just use W,A,S,D then you can doge

[Plague Bringer]

[RANT]

So, I was thinking of that a long time ago, about the HUGE advantage Alien have against the humans when both team are Stage 1, So I asked myself, what would be the best idea, that would encourage humans players to go out of their base, that would actuly require skill to do.

And I though of something: What if Human had unlimited jumping?
But then I asked myself, wouldn't it be too overpower? So, I had another idea, What if human WITHOUT a battlesuit would have unlimited jumping, with an armor reduction (reduce the helmet/light armor effectiveness) and maybe a "Radar-usefulness reduction"(Radar refresh time would be a little bit slower, Can't see friendly units or/and can't see how high an alien is compared to you)

So here is a list of advantage:
-Can use the circle jumping trick
-A good defense against ground headshot
-Make the humans actuly get out of the base, since they will be able to fight and not get one shotted
-Would encourage people to play human more often

Disadvantage:
-Reduce the armor value of light armor/helmet
-Reduce the radar effectiveness
-Can't be used while your a battlesuit

Shooting straight? I don't get it, I was talking about dodging, you can't kill a good Tyrant if you only shot straight but can't dodge.  :roll:

Must I pick apart every one of your f***ing posts to explain them to you?

In your first post you said "WHEN BOTH TEAMS ARE S1".

To back that up in your second post you wrote you cant kill a TYRANT.

ALSO you're contradicting yourself. You talk about lack of headgear in the first post, but in the second you say you're talking about DODGING. So YES you are goddamned well arguing human's ability to dodge. If you're not, well, this argument is too full of holes and should be locked. I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one am sick of explaining people's craptastic hole filled arguments to them just so they can say "I never said that".

The unlimited stamina was shot down for a reason a long time ago. Learn to aim, and the dretches won't get close to you. Learn to dodge, and you wont get killed. It's as simple as that.

Get teammates to cover you so the dretches wont get kills.

It's as simple as having some COMMON-fucking-SENSE and NOT BEING A total n00b.[/RANT]

[Henners]

I was about to repeat the same objection but I think plague bringer has it covered

[St. Anger]

As gay and retarded as Iabz is. He would pwn the shit out of Plague Bringer, might be best to not call him a noob.

[Steely Ann]

Oh snaps!  It might not be the best idea to call him a n00b!  'Cause, like, he's gonna drive-by your house or something.  PH34R

[mooseberry]

Hey who's that in my garden??  :eek:

[IabzO.o]

Must I pick apart every one of your f***ing posts to explain them to you?

In your first post you said "WHEN BOTH TEAMS ARE S1".

To back that up in your second post you wrote you cant kill a TYRANT.

ALSO you're contradicting yourself. You talk about lack of headgear in the first post, but in the second you say you're talking about DODGING. So YES you are goddamned well arguing human's ability to dodge. If you're not, well, this argument is too full of holes and should be locked. I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one am sick of explaining people's craptastic hole filled arguments to them just so they can say "I never said that".

The unlimited stamina was shot down for a reason a long time ago. Learn to aim, and the dretches won't get close to you. Learn to dodge, and you wont get killed. It's as simple as that.

Get teammates to cover you so the dretches wont get kills.

It's as simple as having some COMMON-fucking-SENSE and NOT BEING A total n00b.

Hum, I come on the forum and see that my topic got some new messages, well I think you deserve an answer, but I'm tired of explaining my idea, while talking about Tremulous balance, So here is your answer:
I was talking about my idea, and then David said that I could simply shoot on the alien, note that my post was talking about a jumping strategy and defense reduction, not about aiming, so I pointed david that you need to be able to dodge to kill an alien(You also need many more thing like mind-game ect...) So I said you can't kill a good tyrant if you can't dodge, you also can't kill a good Dragoon if you can't dodge ect...
Now for me using the Tyrant as an example is simple, when I said both team are S1, I was mostly refering to the human, who doesn't have a head protection, wich is why they need some "anti headshot mechanism".
So if you would read my post, I was talking about how human can protect themselves against headshot without head gear.

ALSO you're contradicting yourself. You talk about lack of headgear in the first post, but in the second you say you're talking about DODGING. So YES you are goddamned well arguing human's ability to dodge. If you're not, well, this argument is too full of holes and should be locked. I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one am sick of explaining people's craptastic hole filled arguments to them just so they can say "I never said that".

Before you explain me something, read my post first. My first post was talking about the unlimited jump, wich was my SUGGESTION, but I was also talking about reducing headgear defense, to create some sort of balance.

[Plague Bringer]

David suggested that you should kill the alien before it reaches you.

Your suggestion would keep humans alive far too long, and it'd make dretches very vulnerable, they'd have to jump for headbites. I can make it to alien base and back on most maps with full health. No medkit, but full health.

Sorry about the yelling, I was just really pissed, but I'm sure I got that across. It wasn't aimed at you, per-se.

[IabzO.o]

David suggested that you should kill the alien before it reaches you.

Your suggestion would keep humans alive far too long, and it'd make dretches very vulnerable, they'd have to jump for headbites. I can make it to alien base and back on most maps with full health. No medkit, but full health.

Sorry about the yelling, I was just really pissed, but I'm sure I got that across. It wasn't aimed at you, per-se.

Well, I don't know why a good alien couldn't reach you.
I fail to see how it make a probleme for dretch, they can use the ceilling and the wall to help them, a lot of good dretch do a side-jump and use their camera angle to headshot you. But don't forget that Dretch isn't the most powerful alien, nor the most useful, and most of the clan who are scrimming wait for the timed evo then share for 1 Dragoon, since the Dretch is a decent alien in Regular, but Dretch is awful in Unlagged, and a lot of the server are Unlagged nowadays. So I don't think dretch should be taken too much in consideration, atleast in scrim.

[AppleJuice]

LOL @ kill the alien before it reaches you.  I guess you've never been killed by a dretch, since...you always kill it before it reaches you, hm?  Meaning, unless the aliens camp, no one ever gets a goon.  Wait, I always see goons...

I like your suggestion, Iabz.  I think it adds a good change to the game, and forces dretches to start using wallwalk more, which they should.  Though maybe it shouldn't be unlimited...just increased.  Unlimited jumping would, in my opinion, make humans really hard to hit for every alien, which might throw off the balance.

Oh, and in my experience, a dretch who approaches you from a distance is stupid, and just dies, obviously.  Good dretches use trickery, and attack you when you are within a close distance.  So the argument 'shoot them before they reach you' is foolish, for good dretches will have already reached you.

This might also create many more ninja dretches.

[Plague Bringer]

Balance is key. Adding stamina to humans just removes that balance. A group of jumping hummiess could take down just about everything.

Stamina is greatly increased in 1.2. Unlimited jumping stamina is not happening. You might as well just ask for headshots to do as much damage as chest shots.

If you die, you die. End of story.

Camp till S2, or go out in a group and you won't need to dodge. Grab a shotgun and keep moving, I can gun down a swarm with a shotgun at S1 or mow them down with a chaingun at S1. Just keep moving. You'll get kills, and cash. You'll be able to replace your lost equipment.

In closing, I'm going to emphasise my main point again. You might as well just ask for headshots to do as much damage as chest shots. Ground headshots are one of the dretch's only advantages. Not every dretch can pull them off, and most good dretches take two tries to land one.

[IabzO.o]

AppleJuice: Thanks for your comment and yes, maybe the jump shouldn't be unlimited

Plague Bringer: Yes, maybe it shouldn't be unlimited, but should be greatly increased, And I don't think ground headshot is one the the dretch's advantage, they are small, they can hide well, they also have wall walk and they are silent.

Camp till S2, or go out in a group and you won't need to dodge. Grab a shotgun and keep moving, I can gun down a swarm with a shotgun at S1 or mow them down with a chaingun at S1. Just keep moving. You'll get kills, and cash. You'll be able to replace your lost equipment.

My suggestion is to encourage human to go out more often, even in scrim most of the time the Human team camp, even when they have credits.
Now I'm not gonna argue with you how crim/public/pick-up game work.
Anyway, thanks for your suggestion Plague  :wink:

[Plague Bringer]

The only thing that I know of that's happening to human stamina any time soon is that it's greatly increased in 1.2. I jumped 10 times straight up, 5 or so times while moving, and 3 or so while spriniting.

Good points about the dretches, but once they're seen, anyone with good aim can take them down a lot of the time on maps like ATCS with empty halls.

[Flower]

I think the balance is not that bad. Many things could be improve, such as the blaster that is totally useless, the repeater usefulness could be improved, barricades should cost less and be stronger, hovers are totally useless.

Like many said, one of the only reason why alien might look overpowered is because many players on Tremulous are total dick, and they want to win on their own, to be on the top of the kill rank and they forget all their team behind. They try to play human the same way they play alien : on their own. The problem is that you can't do that.

Just think about it : To kill a goon, you need around 6 MD shot. Alone, it's possible. If there's 6 good human together, in 1 second, the goon is down. It's the same thing for almost every units. I've found many other tactics while playing, but never put them really in practice because i rarely see players using teamplay, except a good clan I already saw playing, called CY (I love their mara dance ^^). Spread your damn humans and stop jacking off together. The more you spread, the more time it takes to the enemy to kill a human and reach the next one, and the next one, and the next one. Use diversions. Ask your teammates to use different weapons. You can have one guy doing close combat and baiting the alien, maybe 2, and another guy sniping with his Mass Driver from a long distance. Don't think you are god like, your name is not Flower (I can feel Iabz's reaction about this sentence hahaha).

Stop trying to grow your eDick up and play as a team. Turn Share OFF, people play like turd with this on. One alien do all the job, while others feed in dretch until the goon share. This is killing teamplay, it's horrible, and it's on on almost every server I played on.

Even in scrim, many people think they rock the shit because they can get 50 kills in a pub. It's not a good indicator to judge the skill of somebody. Kill whoring is easy, getting the real skill and the strategy is something else. Stop blaming your teammates. After a game, think about your strategy and how you could improve it. It's easy. Use your gun wisely, take the environment to your advantage, make the enemy think he have a chance to take the last bite out of you and blow him up with your fellow teammates.

[IabzO.o]

Don't think you are god like, your name is not Flower

Thanks for your comment flower, nice joke by the way...