Author Topic: Offensive Map Start Strategy  (Read 25317 times)

Plague Bringer

  • Posts: 3815
  • Turrets: +147/-187
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« on: June 27, 2007, 07:39:04 pm »
These are just basic strategies {MMD} used at the begining of each map. They're fairly basic, but they work.

Arachnid 2:
Aliens - Rush the top, human bases up there don't last forever, but they can be hard to crack with a good defence.

Humans - Get to and secure the top ASAP. Build a base up there immediately. Never move under the stairs.


ATCS:
Aliens - Rush the hall. Jump that turret and grab some kills at the nodes.

Humans - Defend the hall and build backup turrets around the reactor and spawns. Rush the outside and take down the lower defences in alien base.


Karith:
Aliens - Rush human top, if you move quickly you can prevent any building up there and secure the win. If you can sucessfully do this you shouldn't require a move. If you do move, get to the dark staircase, not the elevator room.

Humans - Secure the top. If aliens break through there a single goon or marauder can kamakaze your base doing a lot of damage.


Niveus:
Aliens - Pull off a move, anywhere, preferrably the box room or window room, but anywhere is better then the default location. Rush the human's side entrance and pin them up in their default room while feeding off stray riflemen and builders.

Humans - Prevent the aliens from moving. Get building on the side entrance, or move to the red room or four door room. Lamer spot is also an option as long as nothing larger then a dretch is roaming around the map.


Nexus 6:
Aliens - Beef up your base and rush, there's not much else to do here. Moves are not reccomended because any competent team can defend the starting position.

Humans - Beef up your base and rush, there's not much else to do here. Moves are not reccomended because any competent team can defend the starting position. Forward building in the halls to the left is possible, but not reccomended on servers with lower buildpoints unless you intend to make a complete move eventually.

Tremor:
Aliens - Rush back entrance ASAP.  Taking the lone turret is easy enough, then their base is wide open to feeding.  Donate to teamates for a goon and it's over. Never put the Overmind in the boxroom unless it's absolutely needed to stay in the game. Otherwise, it's suicide. An egg/booster combo maybe, but that's it.

Humans - Cover back entry and build turrets in front hall ASAP.  Then pansaw-rush their spawns.  If aliens take tunnels, grenade the heck outta them.  If still stage one, credit camp at the tunnel entrances till they decide to come out.

Transit:
Aliens - Go go go! Keep one or two grangers at base to beef up the acids or move while the dretches swarm like bees to honey. The default human base is completely lacking of defences, an armoury, and a medistation. The trickjumping to get there on time is well worth the trouble if you get to the human base before any significant progress has been acieved.

Humans - There's four or five possible base locations on Transit that are accesable from the default fairly easily. Other then the default, a good base can be constructed on the platform by the water towers, on the water towers, on the top level of the pit located to the immediate left of the default, or the blood room. I, myself, suggest that you immediately build defences and save a move untill S2, since no matter where you put the reactor it won't power anything if there's nothing built.
U R A Q T

AKAnotu

  • Posts: 616
  • Turrets: +7/-9
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2007, 07:41:45 pm »
no small type please
nice edit

David

  • Spam Killer
  • *
  • Posts: 3543
  • Turrets: +249/-273
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2007, 11:36:33 am »
Nice.

Too much in the way of dominant strategy for my liking.

What we need is a thing for each map, with good tactics for each team, and how to combat them.  This is a nice start, but there's so much more.  We should stick it on the wiki.
Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
--
My words are mine and mine alone.  I can't speak for anyone else, and there is no one who can speak for me.  If I ever make a post that gives the opinions or positions of other users or groups, then they will be clearly labeled as such.
I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

mooseberry

  • Community Moderators
  • *
  • Posts: 4005
  • Turrets: +666/-325
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2007, 04:43:09 pm »
There is a lot more that can be said, but that would also be a lot of work to cover it all. Good start!
Bucket: [You hear the distant howl of a coyote losing at Counterstrike.]

मैं हिन्दी का समर्थन

~Mooseberry.

Mispeled

  • Posts: 148
  • Turrets: +0/-0
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2007, 05:39:15 pm »
Very informative.

But I guess transit and uncreation are too lame to write anything for. :P

Plague Bringer

  • Posts: 3815
  • Turrets: +147/-187
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2007, 05:40:47 pm »
They're default?

They're never played anyway.

>_>

I'll think of something.

Yeah, it's shit, but it's to be followed in, like, the first 5 minutes. I'll come up with more guides... between now and Survivor's next map release.
U R A Q T

TinMan

  • Posts: 1019
  • Turrets: +49/-70
    • http://neonpulse.net
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2007, 06:57:54 pm »
Your Arachnid 2 cracks me up, telling the humans to run up there. Human bases above those stairs always fail, it's a worse base then default if the aliens aren't really feeding you.
Code: [Select]
Linux: ~/.tremulous/base/
Mac: ~/Library/Application\ Support/Tremulous/base/
Windows: C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Application Data\Tremulous\base\
NeonPulse
http://neonpulse.net/media/games/tremulous/base/autoexec.cfg

Paradox

  • Posts: 2612
  • Turrets: +253/-250
    • Paradox Designs
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2007, 07:10:43 pm »
The only good thing about the stair base is that it can last a while, but it usually looses. Best human base is pipes, if it can be pulled off.

∧OMG ENTROPY∧

Plague Bringer

  • Posts: 3815
  • Turrets: +147/-187
@tinman
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2007, 07:14:30 pm »
Above the stairs is better then default a lot of the times, you can chase down tyrants in that hall and fend off goons fairly easy. Under the stairs is horrible. Basically, the rule here is only move if you're going to move twice. It's unlikely you'll make it to the pipes till S2, and above the stairs is good for getting fed to S2.
U R A Q T

Plague Bringer

  • Posts: 3815
  • Turrets: +147/-187
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2007, 07:14:56 pm »
fuckin' lag
U R A Q T

Quaoar

  • Posts: 152
  • Turrets: +1/-0
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2007, 06:24:33 am »
Transit is in dire need of a building strategy for humans, I think. Absolutely no human base I've ever seen in the starting location has really worked. Humans might win, but that doesn't mean that the base itself was ever any good.

Blood room bases have worked, but trying to build in there is such a giant mess... I've seen 6-player pile-ups at the armo. People coming out of nodes couldn't even get anywhere. Even for a hummie base it was way too damn small.

Everything else just seems too far away to really risk against a good team, and that's when you need a good base.

Sand pit?

Raytray

  • Posts: 355
  • Turrets: +3/-19
    • http://trem-null.com
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2007, 05:06:56 pm »
Pipes aren't very great if you're all up there. IMO arachnid sucks for builders. :) So just attack.

Transit human sand base is quite good. As for aliens, can't think of many decent bases for them. Maybe blood room or just egg spam it.
Default base with a OM move isn't that bad either.
}MG{Raytray

Plague Bringer

  • Posts: 3815
  • Turrets: +147/-187
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2007, 05:13:41 pm »
H Base in the second train is a great assault position provided the aliens haven't moved. :)
U R A Q T

kevlarman

  • Posts: 2737
  • Turrets: +291/-295
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2007, 08:22:30 pm »
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
H Base in the second train is a great assault position provided the aliens haven't moved. :)
also known as "we're so much better than the other team we can be suicidal and still win". blood room is the best there is for humans in 1.1 (it's pretty meh on trem.tjw.org), and you should not have problems with space unless you're on a huge server, and if you're on a huge server that invalidates pretty much all discussion on standard base locations.
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----

player1

  • Posts: 3062
  • Turrets: +527/-401
    • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
useful info; raising the level of discourse?!
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2007, 01:00:34 am »
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
They're default?

They're never played anyway.

>_>

I'll think of something.

Yeah, it's shit, but it's to be followed in, like, the first 5 minutes. I'll come up with more guides... between now and Survivor's next map release.


As far as I know there are 8 default maps (I have the Mac version, so maybe it's different, but I don't think so).

Anyway I just wanted to say great start to a strategy guide and useful addition to the Strategies & Tactics subforum.

I think it's very useful for new players to understand the basic strategy of each team at mapstart, so they can participate and actually contribute to the overall effort.

Good job, Plague Bringer. Also, I'd like to hear your thoughts on Transit and Uncreation (in the form of an edited first post, using the same format). Would you be willing to start another thread with mapstart strategies (or even mapstrat startegies) for some of the more popular non-default maps (I immediately think of Gloom2Beta2, Gloom3t, Cerberus, UTCSb, ATCSZalpha, and ATCSCargo)?

Quote from: "David"
Nice.

Too much in the way of dominant strategy for my liking.

What we need is a thing for each map, with good tactics for each team, and how to combat them.  This is a nice start, but there's so much more.  We should stick it on the wiki.


One of the wikis (I'd swear it was the MG one) is arranged by map (you'd know better than me), and I found it somewhat useful, if incomplete. This, being a smaller bite, would make a good header page for that section in the wiki, or "one player's opinions about strategies" or something. And, yeah, what you said sounds great, but aren't you guys in the middle of a mind-blowing secret project or something?

Plague Bringer

  • Posts: 3815
  • Turrets: +147/-187
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2007, 01:20:02 am »
Updated with Transit, it could probably use some touchups, it was just a quickie off the top of my head.
U R A Q T

player1

  • Posts: 3062
  • Turrets: +527/-401
    • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
congratulate yourselves!!!
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2007, 01:30:33 am »
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
Updated with Transit, it could probably use some touchups, it was just a quickie off the top of my head.


sweet
yeah please add uncreation at your leisure
and a similar thread about some popular non-defaults would be very useful if you were so inclined

Plague Bringer

  • Posts: 3815
  • Turrets: +147/-187
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2007, 01:33:35 am »
I'm inclined, just not in the mood right now. >_>
U R A Q T

player1

  • Posts: 3062
  • Turrets: +527/-401
    • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
as read by Alan Alda as Hawkeye Pierce
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2007, 03:47:37 am »
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
I'm inclined, just not in the mood right now. >_>


"I used to be so inclined, but now I stand corrected."

sorry, couldn't miss the chance for a Groucho Marx line

yeah, no worries, no rush, just expressing an interest in your thread *bump*

Lava Croft

  • Guest
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2007, 10:35:34 am »
This thread is making me laugh, with a touch of sadness at so much misinformation.

player1

  • Posts: 3062
  • Turrets: +527/-401
    • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
so, fix it then...
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2007, 04:27:00 pm »
plz make corrections to the above material
& feel free to curse, flame, and resort to personal insults, where necessary
it's your duty as a mod/veteran player/general curmudgeon/person who pointed it out

P.S. a wistful sadness? more like reading Proust or listening to Debussy?

Plague Bringer

  • Posts: 3815
  • Turrets: +147/-187
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2007, 08:34:40 pm »
Lava, your job as a helpful member of this community is to, well, be helpful.

Do it.
U R A Q T

player1

  • Posts: 3062
  • Turrets: +527/-401
    • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
tell me more, O wizened elder...
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2007, 08:40:08 pm »
Even if it means disabusing us of our prejudices, and correcting our ill-formed opinions.

Megagun

  • Posts: 36
  • Turrets: +1/-2
Re: tell me more, O wizened elder...
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2007, 10:01:28 pm »
I totally agree with the Karith and Tremor early tactics, especially for Aliens. If Aliens control the balcony on Karith, Humans are done for, and controlling the balcony isn't hard to do at all, even with a sole dretch. As soon as you get shared a Dragoon (convince your teammates to share you the money to secure a victory.. Works best when you play with people you know ofcourse) within the first two minutes of Karith, You're pretty much winning already. :P

Also, too bad the default Alien base in Tremor is closer to the door entrance than the side (boxes) entrance, as everyone *always* attacks through main door, even after I told them that the boxes entrance is clear of all turrets. :(
But yes, get that first turret down and you have already secured part of the victory on that map :D

Also, indeed, under-stairs bases in Arachnid are meh. The only times I've seen that location work was when, well, Humans were winning already anyways. Too bad that under-stairs bases are getting way too common lately. When I started playing Trem a year ago <insert Lava Croft flaming me for 'only a year' here>, under-stairs bases were, well... not common at all, yet nowadays it seems as if the first thing anyone does in Arachnid is move the base upstairs or under the stairs...

But either way, I guess the best tactic of them all (for aliens) is getting an early goon, either by sharing, or by killing lots... :)

Quaoar

  • Posts: 152
  • Turrets: +1/-0
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2007, 10:13:29 pm »
For some reason, base moving was A LOT more bold about a year ago.

For example, in Niveus, no one ever put their base on the right of the left arch behind the barrels right where the starting base was. More than half the time we ended up in the Red Room.

And I'd see a blood room base once every couple of visits to Transit, whereas now it's all about the pile of rubble on the right.

In Arachnid, the U-turn base was really popular, and honestly, tended to hold out better than either understair or abovestair bases. At least, so it appears now. In my mind, Arachnid is a really bad situation.

Of course, you can blame it on a good alien team not letting you move, but that doesnt even seem the case half the time. Everyone's just resigned to really boring moves that don't ever really seem to help.

|pl0x|Inaki

  • Posts: 12
  • Turrets: +0/-2
    • http://www.psychomatic.us
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2007, 07:52:07 am »
IMHO the best method for ATCS is moving the human base to center island and putting Turrets and nodes on each side of the entrance.Seems to work the best a good deal of the time. Default base is too open in my opinion,  aliens not so much because the acid tubes =p

Damn lucispammers.

DASPRiD

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 549
  • Turrets: +21/-2
    • http://www.dasprids.de
Re: Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2007, 10:42:02 am »
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
Humans - Cover back entry and build turrets in front hall ASAP.  Then pansaw-rush their spawns.  If aliens take tunnels, grenade the heck outta them.  If still stage one, credit camp at the tunnel entrances till they decide to come out.


NEVER suggest camping.
url=https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=mail%40dasprids%2ede&item_name=DASPRiD%27s&no_shipping=0&no_note=1&tax=0&currency_code=EUR&lc=DE&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8][/url]

Survivor

  • Posts: 1660
  • Turrets: +164/-159
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2007, 10:47:47 am »
Everything will change come 1.2 anyway.
I’m busy. I’ll ignore you later.

|pl0x|Inaki

  • Posts: 12
  • Turrets: +0/-2
    • http://www.psychomatic.us
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2007, 12:22:39 am »
Quote from: "Survivor"
Everything will change come 1.2 anyway.



orly   :acidtube:

Survivor

  • Posts: 1660
  • Turrets: +164/-159
Offensive Map Start Strategy
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2007, 08:51:50 am »
Turret spin up time alone means an entirely different way of building bases and as such an entirely different way of playing offense and defense.
I’m busy. I’ll ignore you later.