Author Topic: Borderlines of Hacking...?  (Read 7435 times)

Rawr

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« on: July 01, 2007, 03:43:55 am »
What would you all consider to be the boundaries of hacking..?
Theres Aimbots, wall hacks, ESP bots, scrolling track bots, HUD mods, IG(in game) mods.
A few which I have seen, are rather pathetic. You can look up hacks by typing "tremulous aimbot" in google.

Roth, bloody demon and J' have all been accused of one, being the same person, and two, using a scrolling track bot. Roth, has admitted to using a wall hack before.

There are a few HUD mods in circulation presently which suggest hacking. Paradox's mod for example, has Human S1 radar. Cheap yes? That defeats the purpose of having an S1 for the most part. Just give them Pulse, flame and nades and they are good.

Although the origional code came from vcxzet aka F0rqu3  :evil:

Ideas?/Suggestions?

Unfortunately for Lava, Chompers HUD mod is NOT a hack :P
img]http://dvclan.org/statsig/statsig.php/3826/4.jpg[/img]

Plague Bringer

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2007, 03:56:43 am »
A hack is defined as anything that gives an advantage to someone over other players. Binds could be considered hacking, but everyone can bind, so it isn't really hacking, is it?

Anything that isn't available to everyone that gives an advantage is a hack in my books. That's wallhacks, aimbots, Paradox's HUD, hell even ESP. Although ESP doesn't sound too bad, it allows you to see the name of every player over their head, you can single out people that way, and you can also know when to run.

Just my 0.02$
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Repentance

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2007, 04:08:16 am »
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
A hack is defined as anything that gives an advantage to someone over other players. Binds could be considered hacking, but everyone can bind, so it isn't really hacking, is it?

but everyone can google 'tremulous hax yarly' too =[.
here is the love?

player1

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there's also this...
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2007, 04:19:20 am »
what about lightmap adjustments?

I'm sure some people just blow out the dark areas with a bound "flashlight" effect (actually more like a magnesium flare)

also, I would imagine some people have scripts for moving when they are in a bad spot and can't evolve (they were common for building in Tribes)

if you can't do something because you are spatially limited (too close to objects or other players, or on the wrong surface) you step, say forward and left, until you can...

as regards Roth, I prefer to have him on my side, and he is uncannily good sometimes; beyond his normal semi-amazing, and truly unbelievably good...:P I like to hope it's all talent and experience, but some of the MD work is almost too good... almost...

Rabbitt

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2007, 06:49:41 am »
So your telling me inputting r_lightmap is a cheat ?
Adjusting the gamma shouldn't be considered a hack more along the lines of knowing your coding and exploiting it
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Taiyo.uk

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2007, 06:53:34 am »
Any modification that isn't included in the standard client. I.e. mods which the other players do not have, and therefore gives you an unfair advantage is considered to be a "hack".

Examples of "non-hacks" include using cg_shadows 2 to show you where hidden structures are and using armoury and evolution binds to avoid having to stop to use the menu system, but these are standard client features that are not exclusive to any particular player(s).

Modifications such as S1 radar, HUD mods that display information that is not available in the standard HUD, aimbots, wallhacks, etc. are exclusive and give an unfair advantage to the players using them.

doomagent13

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2007, 07:25:33 am »
Quote from: "Taiyo.uk"
HUD mods that display information that is not available in the standard HUD
Would that include it being a little more accurate? (*points to default stamina meter*)

Rawr

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2007, 08:11:31 am »
Quote from: "doomagent13"
Quote from: "Taiyo.uk"
HUD mods that display information that is not available in the standard HUD
Would that include it being a little more accurate? (*points to default stamina meter*)

Not that it's really important  :-? You can jump 3 times, then you have to wait about 5 seconds before you can jump again.
img]http://dvclan.org/statsig/statsig.php/3826/4.jpg[/img]

.f0rqu3

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2007, 11:22:50 am »
oh dont play on sv_pure 0 servers like sst

Kaleo

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2007, 11:25:25 am »
Quote from: "Repentance"
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
A hack is defined as anything that gives an advantage to someone over other players. Binds could be considered hacking, but everyone can bind, so it isn't really hacking, is it?

but everyone can google 'tremulous hax yarly' too =[.


http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=tremulous+hax+yarly&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
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player1

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no, what I said was...
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2007, 06:50:58 pm »
Quote from: "Rabbitt"
So your telling me inputting r_lightmap is a cheat ?
Adjusting the gamma shouldn't be considered a hack more along the lines of knowing your coding and exploiting it


I didn't say it was a hack or a cheat. I just said it was an advantage which some people use and others don't. I'm not talking about minor gamma tweaks, I'm talking about completely blowing out the colors and textures and filling every dark nook and cranny with light, and having that effect bound to a key, so it can be toggled. It is as you have stated, an exploit, which is a borderline case of the unlevel playing field. raWr was asking for examples. I provided a couple.

As far as I know, gamma tweaks are pretty common. In most games I've played, many of the "better" players used them. It's a matter of degree. If you add some brightness, that's one thing. If you utilize lightmap to remove all textures and make the whole game lit up like the 4th of July, that's a little more of an exploit. What one player calls an advantage, other players will call exploits, or cheats or hacks.

Can you play without it? Do you need it to get good scores? Are you just as good with a stock client? Do you feel guilty or defensive about doing it? Don't worry about how I label it; how do you feel about doing it?

Plague Bringer

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2007, 08:46:44 pm »
It's available to every single player because it's packed with the game, therefore it's not a hack or a cheat, it's an advantage that some people choose not to use.
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Evlesoa

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Re: Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2007, 09:27:34 pm »
Quote from: "Rawr"
You can look up hacks by typing "tremulous aimbot" in google.


Kaleo, i think this is what he means...

A_Total_noob

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2007, 10:21:55 pm »
I personally consider a hack something that gives you a unreasonable advantage over another player while only being accessable via unorthadox means. Slightly changing your GUI I wouldnt consider a 'uber h4x', but being able to see names above players brings a whole host of new issues (Eg: No stealth dretching/basilisking, singleing out, etc) I would.
Same for aimbots, wallhacks, and all that crap.


My suggestion ? Spectate a player if he appears to be playing too well.
lawl, people still play Tremulous ?

Raytray

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2007, 10:39:06 pm »
Hax == What Taiyo.uk said.

Oh and sv_pure 1 ftw.
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next_ghost

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2007, 10:56:58 am »
Stop confusing hacking and cracking. :roll:
Timbo is hacker, aimbotters are crackers.
If my answer to your problem doesn't seem helpful, it means I won't help you until you show some effort to fix your problem yourself!
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Nux

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2007, 02:12:24 pm »
How about TeamSpeak? Not everyone has this and it gives a great advantage to those who use it. Yet people don't mind TeamSpeak because it adds depth to the game. That's the key issue- aimbots, wallhacks and such like all cheapen the game because they lower the requirement for the player to pay attention to the game, whereas TeamSpeak only adds to the involvement.

Plague Bringer

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2007, 03:16:53 pm »
Well, Teamspeak does give an advantage, and most people don't have immediate access to it (not everyone has it). I guess Taiyo.uk is very accurate with his definiton of a hack. Since Teamspeak isn't a modification to the original client (not everyone can code, but everyone can go online and install Teamspeak) it's not a hack.

Teamspeak is like binds, some people choose not to use them (or haven't heard of them), even though they can.
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player1

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feeling pretty agreeable...
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2007, 03:31:23 pm »
Nux & PB, I agree & I agree again...

binds, Teamspeak, a custom HUD, maybe some builder scripts (look up, right, move forward, left), some vstr strings, maybe a couple special configs on a few key binds (umm, lightmap, enemy health, all playernames) & etc. I would say most players use, or would use, or have used, or consider somewhat fair, or have seen before, or would tolerate

just because something is defined as an exploit, if everyone could use it but don't, I think most people consider that to be fair

I think there's a continuum of online ethical behavior, which some people will tolerate, before they feel the experience somewhat sullied

me: default, tutorial mode  :eek:  :P  :roll:  :oops:  :D

benmachine

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2007, 03:40:16 pm »
Quote from: "next_ghost"
Stop confusing hacking and cracking. :roll:
Timbo is hacker, aimbotters are crackers.


Google'd

hack·er
n. Informal.

   1. One who is proficient at using or programming a computer; a computer buff.
   2. One who uses programming skills to gain illegal access to a computer network or file.
   3. One who enthusiastically pursues a game or sport: a weekend tennis hacker.

So you are half right. Timbo is indeed a hacker and many aimbotters are not. However, many people's perception of the term hacker is entirely accurate, so don't give them a hard time about it. While we're here:

crack·er
n.

   1. A thin crisp wafer or biscuit, usually made of unsweetened dough.
   2. One that cracks, especially:
         1. A firecracker.
         2. A small cardboard cylinder covered with decorative paper that holds candy or a party favor and pops when a paper strip is pulled at one or both ends and torn.
         3. The apparatus used in the cracking of petroleum.
         4. One who makes unauthorized use of a computer, especially to tamper with data or programs.
   3. Offensive.
         1. Used as a disparaging term for a poor white person of the rural, especially southeast United States.
         2. Used as a disparaging term for a white person.

Even point 2.4 does not quite fit an aimbotter, depending on what you think is authorised or otherwise.

Everyone who likes to think of themselves as a 'good' hacker: it may be best to use a more specific term to evade possible confusion.
benmachine

A_Total_noob

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2007, 06:09:10 pm »
An 'uber l33t cracker' ?
Hmm - just doesnt sound the same.
lawl, people still play Tremulous ?

Mantra

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2007, 07:25:27 pm »
I call them script kiddies since 7/8 of teh aimbotters just downloaded null's aimbot.

Plague Bringer

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2007, 08:13:52 pm »
Why don't we come up with a vocab. that we can all agree on?

Hackers are bad.
Script kiddies are bad.
Modders/Devs/Koderz are good.

Something like that.

We should make a Tremulous dictionary.
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Raytray

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Borderlines of Hacking...?
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2007, 10:15:54 pm »
Quote from: "Mantra"
I call them script kiddies since 7/8 of teh aimbotters just downloaded null's aimbot.
Good thing too. It's easy to see.
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