Old Mapping Competition

[Mango]

I would suggest more than one category. Maybe for maps that are better in some ways than others. Also, maybe consider having more than one prize?

I'm sure there are lots of people who are new to the mapping scene who haven't built up there skills, but have plenty of talent. Maybe you could nominate your map to be in an expert category, or... not so expert  

[Kaleo]

This competition is designed to find the best mapper. That means if some nobody comes along and creates a map that looks ugly but plays well, they get the same amount of credit if someone makes a map that looks awesome, yet plays like a cow.

A good mapper is someone who can combine these skills.

[Plague Bringer]

Are any prior public gameplay tests or releases allowed, or is this competition to count as the first release?

Also, what will happen to the .map after judging? I can't speak for everybody, but I'll want mine to be deleted, I don't want anyone tampering around with the map and re-releasing it.

[n00b pl0x]

If some nobody comes along and creates a map that looks ugly but plays well, they get the same amount of credit if someone makes a map that looks awesome, yet plays like a cow.

i, a proud cow, resent that remark.

DIE :evil:

[player1]

can you fix the spelling on the thread name?

"competion"

just to prove u r worthy to judge the work of others?

[Kaleo]

Are any prior public gameplay tests or releases allowed, or is this competition to count as the first release?

Also, what will happen to the .map after judging? I can't speak for everybody, but I'll want mine to be deleted, I don't want anyone tampering around with the map and re-releasing it.

No public gameplay tests. Private ones, by all means, but no public ones.

And I will delete your .map files if you wish.

[Survivor]

You haven't explained the model rule and the icon is custom. They can choose it themselves and keep it forever. But changes to it are expected to be very slow so choose one you want to stick with if you win.

[Kaleo]

You haven't explained the model rule and the icon is custom. They can choose it themselves and keep it forever. But changes to it are expected to be very slow so choose one you want to stick with if you win.

Models need to be obvious. I did already explain that.

As for Icons, they are not going to be custom. I have spoken to DASPRiD, and they will be a sort of title.

Survivor, please stop acting as if this is your idea.

[Plague Bringer]

Okay, thanks for the fast responses (and sorry for the many questions), Kaleo.

If we run into a problem, or need some help in deciding what to do with something, are we allowed to ask for help, or do we have to search for a wiki?

I'll give you an example:

Ok, I'm having some trouble with a.. trigger_buildable. Am I allowed to ask an experienced mapper for help, or do I have to google it and figure it out on my own?

or

I can't decide whether to have a ladder in the giant pit, or a staircase to get to the bottom. Can I ask someone who'd be able to advise me on the best way to go?

[Survivor]

You haven't explained the model rule and the icon is custom. They can choose it themselves and keep it forever. But changes to it are expected to be very slow so choose one you want to stick with if you win.

Models need to be obvious. I did already explain that.

As for Icons, they are not going to be custom. I have spoken to DASPRiD, and they will be a sort of title.

Survivor, please stop acting as if this is your idea.

I only requested the icon from timbo or dasprid to add to your competition as a price and got an answer from timbo. No more.

Dasprid as a judge is a wise choice. But at what do timbo and overflow need to help in mapping? Can we request help from them on technical issues with mapping? Insights into the 1.2.0 possibilities for mapping so we can adjust our maps for that? I don't understand what you are saying here.

And what is obvious about the models? There need to be a minimum of two different obvious models? I am not asking what they are, I know they are models. I am asking why 2 and what limitations are set on them. Selfmade, or imported from within the maps of the texturesets, or completely free. You still haven't answered that.

I wasn't taking over control of this. I was trying to make your original post as complete as possible so nobody can say they were following rules when they were not. But I'll no longer point out anything. You take a few pointers as harsh criticism.

[Plague Bringer]

Don't get overly defensive, Survivor, you're just helping. However, it did seem as though you were telling Kaleo what the icons were going to be, when Kaleo is the one who would choose.

Also, Kaleo pointed out that the models need to be in plain view, but they can be taken from anywhere.

Kaleo, would I be able to use the two types of boxes from Transit as the two different models? I'm not big on model usage, and I'd like to do most of the work with brushes. Also (I know you haven't had time to respond, but I dont want my previous questions to be unanswered, just incase you skip over some posts)...

Okay, thanks for the fast responses (and sorry for the many questions), Kaleo.

If we run into a problem, or need some help in deciding what to do with something, are we allowed to ask for help, or do we have to search for a wiki?

I'll give you an example:

Ok, I'm having some trouble with a.. trigger_buildable. Am I allowed to ask an experienced mapper for help, or do I have to google it and figure it out on my own?

or

I can't decide whether to have a ladder in the giant pit, or a staircase to get to the bottom. Can I ask someone who'd be able to advise me on the best way to go?

Can we also get a list of the mappers that are entering this competition? I'd like to know who else is mapping for this.

[Survivor]

Last time, to explain.

Don't get overly defensive, Survivor, you're just helping. However, it did seem as though you were telling Kaleo what the icons were going to be, when Kaleo is the one who would choose.

I answered as I got it from Timbo. I had and still have no knowledge of communication between Kaleo and dasp or timbo. Am I required to be psychic?

Also, Kaleo pointed out that the models need to be in plain view, but they can be taken from anywhere.

There is no max limit. This means someone who is an excellent modeller can transcend texturesetlimitation with mapping since everything is allowed in moddeling and actually only needs to add caulk and related trem entities.
Also why do there have to be models. The minimum limit is a mystery. Why minimum 2, what does it add?
I also see that without an upperlimit good modellers can easily overcome the greatest brushwork mapper because they are not limited within texturesets nor Radiant design limitations.

I am just trying to make his rules fool, fail and faultproof. I can't help it I contain my responses because I don't want to be known as an ass.

But when I become an ass like i did in my previous post it is because people do not know why I state my things. I've had my run in with kobrakaine over several of my mod decisions and they have been in several threads, I explained myself but my explanations take so much time usually that it's easier to simply suggest than explain. Especially when I know the same person will doubt me next time anyway.

[TRaK]

I think the mapper should be allowed to add a few(like 2-5) custom textures/shaders. For example, there is no water shader in the nexus6 texture(afaik). Being allowed to add at least a couple custom ones would help to vary up one's options a bit.

Just a suggestion. I might make something for this, dunno yet.

[rdizzle]

If this is supposed to be a "the best mapper" contest, why is there a limit on textures and shaders?

setting those up yourself and mixing colors and light are a huge part of mapping for games.  saying you can only use someone else's artwork is complete bullshit.

the limits in the contest are starting to sound retarded.

but, have at it.

[AKAnotu]

i hate your texture rule

[Plague Bringer]

That's 3 against and.. one for.

[Plague Bringer]

That's 3 against and.. one for.

[rdizzle]

Let me be clear, I like the idea of setting limits to contests, and limits often inspire great creativity.

However, maps are works of art.  Incorporating others people's artwork is fine, but if you are not allowed to incorporate your own shaders or your own textures, you are basically forced to recycle and rehash existing visuals.  Plus, you are basically saying if you want to use shader A you better hope to god you can find it in the shader list of one of the maps listed.  And if you do find that shader, are you then not allowed to modify it's values?

[Kaleo]

So many lovely questions. Where to start...

Firstly, Plague Bringer: I think it would be appropriate to ask a "Senior" mapper for help. Many mappers, good or bad, should ask questions. ANY one should ask questions for ANY thing. Also, there are no restrictions on to what md3/ase files you use. Hell, you could grab the hotdog cart md3 from Urban Terror if you felt like it. I want to see how you incorporate this in your map. Use the boxes, by all means.

Secondly, Survivor: Part of your question was answered above, so i don't need to repeat myself.

There is no max limit. This means someone who is an excellent modeller can transcend texturesetlimitation with mapping since everything is allowed in moddeling and actually only needs to add caulk and related trem entities.
Also why do there have to be models. The minimum limit is a mystery. Why minimum 2, what does it add?
I also see that without an upperlimit good modellers can easily overcome the greatest brushwork mapper because they are not limited within texturesets nor Radiant design limitations.

I'm not entirely sure of what you mean by this, but if im right, you mean that you think people will make the entire map in a 3D program and then just pop in some other stuff in Radiant afterwards. This is fine. If anyone does this I will be very impressed.

Thirdly, TRaK: Very interesting point. Maybe I might give a list of shaders that you can use anytime.

And lastly, everyone disliking my texture limitations: ...
Go listen to rdizzle.


Thank you for you questions, and I apologize in advanced for this double post. I still need to get a messages across.

[Kaleo]

ATTENTION

It is important that I know who will be taking part in this competition. It is open to anyone. If you wish to take part in this competition, then please send me a PM just saying that you want to. I will put your name in the first post.

PM me

Entry closes on Wednesday the 11th

[n00b pl0x]

kaleo, aside from mocking L E G I O N A I R E and you in making my font huge and retardedly colored, my post was serious.

you have a lot of shit to sort out and you should figure out specific rules...your current rules leave a lot to be desired and look like they were made in like 30 seconds...with no consultation of anyone else at all

id suggest pushing it back at least a week or two

p.s. ur cumbak r 2 gud 4 me

you flame like evlesoa. and thats not a compliment, considering you flamed a semiconstructive post.

i do want to see this idea get off the ground

otherwise i would have just said something to the effect of "kaleo, go away. you suck at mapping, and you suck even more at making mapping tournament rules. leave it to someone with common sense."

[TRaK]

My only gripe is the texture rule. It's fairly restrictive, and I don't think it serves any particular purpose.

[Kaleo]

The Texture rule is in place to make it more of a challenge. The next competition may of may not have this rule depending on how this one goes.

[Survivor]

I am just too stubborn to let this go.

Secondly, Survivor: Part of your question was answered above, so i don't need to repeat myself.

What question? Because the main question is below this and there were no others which you've answered yet.

There is no max limit. This means someone who is an excellent modeller can transcend texturesetlimitation with mapping since everything is allowed in moddeling and actually only needs to add caulk and related trem entities.
Also why do there have to be models. The minimum limit is a mystery. Why minimum 2, what does it add?
I also see that without an upperlimit good modellers can easily overcome the greatest brushwork mapper because they are not limited within texturesets nor Radiant design limitations.

I'm not entirely sure of what you mean by this, but if im right, you mean that you think people will make the entire map in a 3D program and then just pop in some other stuff in Radiant afterwards. This is fine. If anyone does this I will be very impressed.

This becomes a modeller-promoting contest in that case. When they are not limited to texturesets they can model a wall with a texture they like or make which isn't in the brushmapper restriction while staying within your rules. This would offset everything since the best looking maps would be from people who would be learning and applying a minimum of mapping and a maximum of modeling. Answer me where your rules adress such a blatant misuse.

Neither have you answered why there is a minimum of two? Why. Give me a straight answer and I'll let it rest. And if you say you've answered it already quote it again.

And lastly, everyone disliking my texture limitations: ...
Go listen to rdizzle.

If this is supposed to be a "the best mapper" contest, why is there a limit on textures and shaders?

setting those up yourself and mixing colors and light are a huge part of mapping for games. saying you can only use someone else's artwork is complete bullshit.

the limits in the contest are starting to sound retarded.

but, have at it.

Let me be clear, I like the idea of setting limits to contests, and limits often inspire great creativity.

However, maps are works of art. Incorporating others people's artwork is fine, but if you are not allowed to incorporate your own shaders or your own textures, you are basically forced to recycle and rehash existing visuals. Plus, you are basically saying if you want to use shader A you better hope to god you can find it in the shader list of one of the maps listed. And if you do find that shader, are you then not allowed to modify it's values?

Question you have not answered and I don't even think you've read his posts.

[ShadowNinjaDudeMan]

I think Kal is restricting textures because then the person who's gone out and got the leetest textures wins just cos of that, equal chances, am I right, Kal?

[Survivor]

I think Kal is restricting textures because then the person who's gone out and got the leetest textures wins just cos of that, equal chances, am I right, Kal?

READ
MY
POST

[Kaleo]

I think Kal is restricting textures because then the person who's gone out and got the leetest textures wins just cos of that, equal chances, am I right, Kal?

READ
MY
POST

SNDM is more right...

And NO BODY is going to make a wall in a 3D program just so they can put it in a map. Too much effort. Besides, doing that would lover their chances of winning.

[Plague Bringer]

Someone who is more adept at modeling then mapping can make a whole level in a 3D program. Read Survivor's post.

There is no max limit. This means someone who is an excellent modeller can transcend texturesetlimitation with mapping since everything is allowed in moddeling and actually only needs to add caulk and related trem entities.
Also why do there have to be models. The minimum limit is a mystery. Why minimum 2, what does it add?
I also see that without an upperlimit good modellers can easily overcome the greatest brushwork mapper because they are not limited within texturesets nor Radiant design limitations.

[Ingar]

It should be permitted to write your own shaders based on the shaders and textures in the choosen texture set, if it were only to change the lighting values. The essence of shaders is changing the way the choosen textures interact with your map, sometimes in very subtle ways.
I can live with a texture-set constraint. The choosen maps have textures enough.

[LinuxManMikeC]

Textures: You may only use textures form one source, and that source must be either 1) Nexus6, 2) Niveus, 3) Karith or 4) Sokolov's Space.

Shaders may use textures, but shaders are not textures (even though they are applied in the same way as textures when using the editor).  Shaders are a set of instructions for rendering (and more in Q3 engine).  As far as semantics are concerned, the only restriction is on textures. So there!