Author Topic: Sudden Death alternative? (Read 11211 times)

Plague Bringer · « **on:** July 04, 2007, 05:42:29 pm »

Okay, in my experience, humans tend to roam the map untill SD(this goes for Karith, Niveus, Nexus6, and all of the default maps excluding ATCS). The reason they begin to camp at SD is because their buildings can't be rebuilt, so they feel the need to defend their base.

What if at Sudden Death, everything could still be built, but the cooldown time for the ConstructionKit (and/or Granger) was doubled, and/or the buildpoints halved?

kevlarman · « **Reply #1 on:** July 04, 2007, 06:01:03 pm »

people would probably build a turret and suicide on a tyrant to reset the build timer, but still an interesting idea.

Pete · « **Reply #2 on:** July 04, 2007, 06:01:57 pm »

Or if there was a rising water level like in Worms

David · « **Reply #3 on:** July 04, 2007, 06:04:14 pm »

Quote from: "Pete"

Or if there was a rising water level like in Worms

Oh we so need that mod.
Karth would rule with flooding. Lots of them would.

HamStar · « **Reply #4 on:** July 04, 2007, 06:58:52 pm »

Jet camp until the end?

Dracone · « **Reply #5 on:** July 04, 2007, 06:59:39 pm »

Lol yeah. And we should put crates that fall from the sky/ceiling, and sheep as weapons...

Ahhhh, I remember good old Worms 2.

But still, this isn't the perfect alternative but I guess it would be better than nothing being done about the SD campers.

David · « **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2007, 07:02:23 pm »

Worms 2 rules.

Super sheep!

we need a worms mod.

Taiyo.uk · « **Reply #7 on:** July 04, 2007, 07:24:09 pm »

Back on topic, the point of SD is to end a long game, usually because one or both teams are camping.

SD gives the humans a choice of either camping and dieing slowly as the aliens destroy their base little by little, or to attack and therefore possibly win. It doesn't matter if a game ends because one team camped themselves to death or because they launched a successful attack, the point is that SD ended the game.

Doubling build times would encourage more extreme camping since structures could still be rebuilt, but only if the builders had more defense from other players.

Rabbitt · « **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2007, 07:36:00 pm »

I think he said halfing the bp's once sd came and everything is rebuildable.

==Troy== · « **Reply #9 on:** July 04, 2007, 08:13:46 pm »

As I think SD is not a well balanced alternative for the game. Human stuctures cannot live without player's support, whether alien structures do not need such backup and more of a backup for aliens themselves. This tends to make SD an alien heaven and humans camping their base. Out of more than 100 SDs I saw in my play none of them ended up in Alien camping base. It is either humans camp, or get alien base before SD.

also, from the fact that armory is an "Overmind" for humans, this increases the number of objects to protect. I think one of the solutions will be to make Armory rebuildable (and possibly med). Since aliens can have a hidden egg and grow their overmind wherever they want and evolve once it is up. Making them self-sufficient even without a proper base.

Paradox · « **Reply #10 on:** July 04, 2007, 08:47:16 pm »

Worms 3d for xbox, worms lives again.
Almost as fun as the original.

Plague Bringer · « **Reply #11 on:** July 05, 2007, 02:02:03 am »

Quote from: "Rabbitt"

I think he said halfing the bp's once sd came and everything is rebuildable.

Halving max bp (102 would turn into 50/52), not maing turrets cost 4. =D

Mispeled · « **Reply #12 on:** July 05, 2007, 02:33:19 am »

I think with a bit more work, the rampage SD that's on Dretch Storm's server could be very good. For those who haven't played it, aliens are given 9 evos and humans are given a battlesuit, pulse rifle, helmet, and health regeneration, and all structures except reactor and overmind are destroyed (including spawns). It is still lacking in some ways (e.g. aliens can evolve to any class they want, but humans are limited to suit/pulse rifle), but it's a very fun end to a game.

I remember awhile back someone suggested that spawn times slowly increase throughout sudden death, like each time someone dies the spawn time increases by a few seconds, until not enough humans or aliens can spawn to defend their base. You can rebuild, but eventually you'd have to devote too many build points to telenodes/eggs.

The halving BPs is a cool idea as well, though eggspam is still viable for aliens on maps like arachnid, karith, transit, etc. Maybe you could allow rebuilding of all structures except spawns?

Plague Bringer · « **Reply #13 on:** July 05, 2007, 02:58:44 am »

The no spawn building idea sounds like a good one. The increased spawn time sounds like it'd work also.

If someone were to remake, say, ATCS to have water rise at, say, 35 minutes, a server could run that version of ATCS so long at their SD was at 35. If their SD removed spawns, it'd work great. Kill or drown.

Lakitu7 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 05, 2007, 06:02:58 am »

It's been said many times before, but instead of increasing the build timer, inrease the time it takes for BP to return after a building is destroyed.

My own addition to this idea is to scale it throughout the game with a linear increase such that the transition between SD and no SD is a gradual one, thus encouraging folks to attack bases throughtout the game instead of just killwhoring until SD.

Metsjeesus · « **Reply #15 on:** July 05, 2007, 11:30:49 am »

SD is very unfair to humans. Alien base needs only 1 egg and overmind at s3. They can spawn, they can advance/evolve, they regain health and they have no problem with ammo. To defend against tyrants, you need react and spawns, plus arm and medistation. If one of them is destroyed at SD, game over. What should change? When alien destroys human building, please give him some evos(not kills) like humans get money from destroying alien buildings. Second, Arm and Medi 0 Bp. So they are rebuildable and suicide goons will not end the game.

David · « **Reply #16 on:** July 05, 2007, 12:02:04 pm »

Aliens get cash for killing buildings exactly the same as humans do. 1 evo/250 creds per spawn.

temple · « **Reply #17 on:** July 05, 2007, 12:42:29 pm »

Quote from: "Mispeled"

I think with a bit more work, the rampage SD that's on Dretch Storm's server could be very good. For those who haven't played it, aliens are given 9 evos and humans are given a battlesuit, pulse rifle, helmet, and health regeneration, and all structures except reactor and overmind are destroyed (including spawns). It is still lacking in some ways (e.g. aliens can evolve to any class they want, but humans are limited to suit/pulse rifle), but it's a very fun end to a game.

I don't like it any more. People spend most of their time voting to bring on Rampage. Camping still happens, even in Rampage.

tuple · « **Reply #18 on:** July 05, 2007, 03:27:10 pm »

Quote from: "Mispeled"

I think with a bit more work, the rampage SD that's on Dretch Storm's server could be very good. For those who haven't played it, aliens are given 9 evos and humans are given a battlesuit, pulse rifle, helmet, and health regeneration, and all structures except reactor and overmind are destroyed (including spawns). It is still lacking in some ways (e.g. aliens can evolve to any class they want, but humans are limited to suit/pulse rifle), but it's a very fun end to a game.

Dretch Storm's rampage is the reason I never go back. I like to play tremulous, that's not tremulous. Watching kill whores and the like camp around till rampage (which really just turns every match into deathmatch) gets REALLY old really quick. Dieing in rampage while a tyrant and two bsuits run around the map playing tag gets really old really quick. Ending a match by turning it into another game just because you don't like a tie is the cheapest excuse for a cop out I can think of. Everyone camps cause it's better to run around like a moron than spectate out of complete boredom. 1 good way to solve the SD problem is to not have SD. Problem solved. If you can't win in the alloted time, noone wins. Don't like there not being a clear winner? How exactly does turning tremulous into an entirely different game accomplish that? The team that is clearly losing just has to hold out till rampage to make it completely even. Yeah, that makes rampage decide who the clear winner is. :roll:

Plague Bringer · « **Reply #19 on:** July 05, 2007, 04:17:31 pm »

Quote from: "David"

Aliens get cash for killing buildings exactly the same as humans do. 1 evo/250 creds per spawn.

But not for the arm/medi.

khalsa · « **Reply #20 on:** July 05, 2007, 04:33:53 pm »

Quote from: "tuple"

1 good way to solve the SD problem is to not have SD. Problem solved. If you can't win in the alloted time, noone wins.

That is the best solution. With tjw's changes (for 1.2) camping the base= feeding, so the best idea is to eliminate sd and timelimits (or have really really high time limits)

Khalsa

Mantra · « **Reply #21 on:** July 05, 2007, 04:36:56 pm »

Problem is, on some servers(Mainly giant servers) There's just no way to win without SD.
When on small servers, you have 5-6 people campig, possibly 1-2 chainsuits, a lucy, and some other things on the range of rifles to pulses.
Now a tyrant can come in the base, slash a little, and run out with some life left.
But when 20 peoppple are sitting in that same base, good luck even getting to the turrets. That being said, trem was never made to play with that many players.
A good way to make SD not as bad, is halving BPs and having all buildings rebuildable but spawns.

Thats how I see it personally.

khalsa · « **Reply #22 on:** July 05, 2007, 05:03:55 pm »

Or a better solution: make sure there are no servers over 22 slots out there. Anything larger is just retarded and not trem.

Quaoar · « **Reply #23 on:** July 05, 2007, 08:34:23 pm »

SD actually works for humans sometimes.

On the larger maps (and most of the default ones are), aliens are almost impossible to get rid of on a moderate sized server assuming they don't have a catastrophic base failure (so fast that there is no time to react). Otherwise, with good eggspam, they can keep on trucking, UNLESS they're in SD.

I've had this happen multiple times. Stuffing eggs absolutely everywhere, half the team spawning only as granger, on and on and on until as3. Humans had s3, but that only helped them destroy a full base, after which bsuit and lucifer were almost pointless.

When a match goes on until SD, that eliminates a very important aspect of alien gameplay. If you eggspammed beforehand, your base has very few eggs, spawning in the middle of nowhere is not often good, and the eggs out there are easy to kill. If you didn't eggspam beforehand, then there's no eggspam anymore. Once the alien base goes, it's gone.

In a way, SD increases an alien's reliance on its base tenfold.

kevlarman · « **Reply #24 on:** July 06, 2007, 05:09:02 am »

Quote from: "khalsa"

Quote from: "tuple"
1 good way to solve the SD problem is to not have SD. Problem solved. If you can't win in the alloted time, noone wins.

That is the best solution. With tjw's changes (for 1.2) camping the base= feeding, so the best idea is to eliminate sd and timelimits (or have really really high time limits)

Khalsa

[citation needed]

n00b pl0x · « **Reply #25 on:** July 06, 2007, 05:16:27 am »

so are rifles going to be able to outrun acid tubes so they can kill the aliens in their base, or am i missing the whole idea of making the human base a complete slaughterzone?

Henners · « **Reply #26 on:** July 06, 2007, 01:56:44 pm »

Quote from: "Mantra"

Problem is, on some servers(Mainly giant servers) There's just no way to win without SD.
When on small servers, you have 5-6 people campig, possibly 1-2 chainsuits, a lucy, and some other things on the range of rifles to pulses.
Now a tyrant can come in the base, slash a little, and run out with some life left.
But when 20 peoppple are sitting in that same base, good luck even getting to the turrets. That being said, trem was never made to play with that many players.
A good way to make SD not as bad, is halving BPs and having all buildings rebuildable but spawns.

Thats how I see it personally.

Has it occurred to you (personally) that tremulous is not designed for "giant servers" with 20 "peoppple" sitting in the same base. Thats not tremulous, its an abomination.

Mantra · « **Reply #27 on:** July 06, 2007, 03:06:13 pm »

Quote from: "Mantra"

Problem is, on some servers(Mainly giant servers) There's just no way to win without SD.
When on small servers, you have 5-6 people campig, possibly 1-2 chainsuits, a lucy, and some other things on the range of rifles to pulses.
Now a tyrant can come in the base, slash a little, and run out with some life left.
But when 20 peoppple are sitting in that same base, good luck even getting to the turrets. That being said, trem was never made to play with that many players.
A good way to make SD not as bad, is halving BPs and having all buildings rebuildable but spawns.

Thats how I see it personally.

If you're going to try and make me lose stupid, at least read my post more carefully to find the stupidities in it.[/b]

Plague Bringer · « **Reply #28 on:** July 06, 2007, 03:42:07 pm »

Quote from: "Mantra"

Quote from: "Mantra"
Problem is, on some servers(Mainly giant servers) There's just no way to win without SD.
When on small servers, you have 5-6 people campig, possibly 1-2 chainsuits, a lucy, and some other things on the range of rifles to pulses.
Now a tyrant can come in the base, slash a little, and run out with some life left.
But when 20 peoppple are sitting in that same base, good luck even getting to the turrets. That being said, trem was never made to play with that many players.
A good way to make SD not as bad, is halving BPs and having all buildings rebuildable but spawns.

Thats how I see it personally.

If you're going to try and make me lose stupid, at least read my post more carefully to find the stupidities in it.[/b]

I couldn't resist.

How could you miss that, Henners? We expected more from you.

Steely Ann · « **Reply #29 on:** July 06, 2007, 06:02:10 pm »

Bringer is quoting Mantra quoting himself.

Weird.

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Author Topic: Sudden Death alternative? (Read 11211 times)

Mantra

Mantra