Attn Humans: Leave the base

[MadMan]

I know theres big scary aliens around the corner and they might scratch your new armor but if you dont grow a pair and attack them once in a while we'll just sit in there for the whole round until they turn into tyrants and rush us. Or the round ends in a draw (which sucks worse IMO).  

I'm always the only one running out there with just my rifle and harassing the dragoons camping outside the base and I know if there were a couple more guys we could clear out the hallway, and push them back. Even by myself I manage to kill a few. Instead the whole team just sits there flying around the base with their jetpacks not doing anything.

Granted, we do need some defense but we cant all sit around the entire time and expect to win. We need more attackers to take out their overmind.

"Come on!"

[raph]

agreeing
no wonder that aliens win so much

[Greewi]

In fact : At stage 1 human should stay in their base. Their defense are sufficiently strong to let them alive. But at the stage 2 and later, they should hunt for destroying the aliens...

Camping at stage 3 for human mean that they wont win... They can only try a draw. At stage 2, human must take the fact the alien dont have as much addons as humans have so alien seem weaker at stage 2... For the stage 3 you now what... :wink:

For the aliens, the trial is to get some human to lunch but they should not attack the base (dretch are easily killed by the turrets...). The stage 2 is normaly the suvival stage. At stage 3 the go nearer to the victory but all is not done...

For the alien base there is two way :
- on small map, build a almost self defendable base...
- on big map, it may be usefull to explode the base (only eggs hidden every were on the map and temporary's overmind (try to hide, but no defences...)

Dont forget one thing : Alien should always maintaint backdoor for escaping : it mean that all the eggs must not be in the main base... If the base is attacked, it is vital to have a few spawn that can spawn builder for a new base... But if humans are quick, this will be an egg hunt only, and on small map this can mean the alien death...

[Manic]

In fact : At stage 1 human should stay in their base. Their defense are sufficiently strong to let them alive. But at the stage 2 and later, they should hunt for destroying the aliens...

Wrong! Humans are best used all out offensively.  This is a common misconception among players.  To be a good human, you have to hunt the aliens, end of story.  Course it is up to the builder on each team to cover defense.  Camping til s2 will only end in disaster because if the aliens hit s3 h is screwed.  The idea is you have to get a lead on the alien team, and stay a full stage ahead of them to win.  Humans win by constant offense, not constant camping.

EDIT: Also, it is possible for s1 humans to win a game, and if h keeps the constant pressure on A, H can win any map.  You have to keep their grangers going crazy, take out a few eggs, knock out their OM.  H objective should always be to end the game as fast as possible.

[Silverius]

It depends on the situation really. When the enemy is strong, defend. When the enemy is weak or running, attack.

[Tweed]

It depends on the situation really. When the enemy is strong, defend. When the enemy is weak or running, attack.

And when you camp they get stronger anyway, camping the base at the start of a fight is braindead, doubling back to the base when you're s1 and they all have dragoons is a better move, a naked s1 human will lose more often than not to a goon.

Overall base camping is fairly retarded in most situations, I've already made this point on the SA forums, but if you just sit around then you're going to get a bunch of goons rushing into your base and ninjaing your reactor at which point, you lose.

[b0rsuk]

To encourage humans to attack, I'd suggest a few new items:
- bandolier for increased ammo capacity (i know it has been suggested before, but it hasn't been IMPLEMENTED)
- 2nd medikit (mutually exclusive with battlesuit, jetpack, energy pack, bandolier; once you purchase it, it can be restocked for free at armory)

Especially lack of bandolier annoys me. Energy weapons already have big advantages:
- you can refill them at free and very mobile repeaters
- they're refilled at very tough and electrified structure
- you can carry more ammo (doh).

At least put  amount of ammo for conventional weapons on par with energy ones by implementing a bandolier !

[Silverius]

Personally I'd like to see a kind of support unit. This could be implemented using a special armour. This armour would not give any defense advantages and slow the unit down a bit (say speed 0.9). Other units would be able to go to the support unit and use 'q' to refresh their (energy) ammo.

The support unit would only be able to carry a limited amount of each ammo type, making a run back every once in a while a necessity. The unit could pull that off alone if the path is duly cleared, but mostly it would require an escort.

The support unit would not be able to carry a gun, aside from the standard blaster and the construction kit. It would not be able to carry a helmet. However it would get a special visor allowing it to see aliens through walls at a decent range, albeit in somewhat vague form (think dots or donuts or other indications of type). This would make the support unit useful for coordination.

To compensate for the new advantage human clip sizes could be decreased.

[SLAVE|Mietz]

i'm against both requests.

The support unit: i wouldn't like to play it for long, the great thing about trem is, that as human you can fastly switch from builder to soldier.
When you want to switch from support to soldier, you have to run back (leaving your troops without your support) and change, get back and try help your team. this seems really complicated, and there wouldn't be a benefit from playing that class (excluding the help for your team-mates). On public servers there is almost no coordination, so this class would be only played in clan-wars.

The extended ammo-clip: would be too powerfull. take an extended chaingun, I allready can take down a tyrant at close range (and when the tyrant is not leet) with a chaingun, or hunt it.
Or take an extension for the shotgun, 8 pallets are more than enough for a goon, and just right for a tyrant.
I just don't see the necessity to change that, i play a lot, and really don't see how this should be more fun.

[Lava Croft]

Humans not leaving their base are easily remedied with Aliens not attacking. This impasse will always lure out a few humans who get bored. You could also try to make a run for their turrets and then make a run back for safety, as this will usually lure a few humans from behind and off their turrets and out of their base perimiter.

[b0rsuk]

Humans not leaving their base are easily remedied with Aliens not attacking. This impasse will always lure out a few humans who get bored. You could also try to make a run for their turrets and then make a run back for safety, as this will usually lure a few humans from behind and off their turrets and out of their base perimiter.

Of course, you could also argue that the aliens will be lured onto turrets and not other way around - not humans outside.  And trying to lure humans can easily backfire - after all, they're the ones with free ranged hitscan weapons and you have only (or mostly) dretches.

There's no need for separate support class. Besides, jetpacker with cskit is much better. Harder to kill, cheap, and can do other things like relocating the base in case of emergency.
Repeaters stay around for quite a while even with nothing to power. They refill lasguns and lucifer. Because they're free,they also work as bait for aliens. When you hear someone attacking a repeater you know exactly where to aim.

[Tweed]

Humans not leaving their base are easily remedied with Aliens not attacking. This impasse will always lure out a few humans who get bored. You could also try to make a run for their turrets and then make a run back for safety, as this will usually lure a few humans from behind and off their turrets and out of their base perimiter.

Which we do all the time as the A team, a few goons doing turret attacks in sucession will destory a turret wall in short order. When I'm on H team and the game has just started I'll run to the om and take pot shots at it to goad them into attacking me so I can make some $$$, sometimes it works, and sometimes you get bit in the head.

Which brings me to another gripe, why the turret wall? Oh goodie, you can keep them from attacking you in one direction, too bad the reactor isn't defended at all, scary how many times we've won because someone decided to place every turret in the world at one entryway and leave all the base essentials undefended.

[evilfish]

Attack, attack, attack. Only way to win, by attacking, right?

[Lava Croft]

And trying to lure humans can easily backfire - after all, they're the ones with free ranged hitscan weapons and you have only (or mostly) dretches.

Only your dretch? Oh wait, I guess you still need some training with your dretch, since it's a pretty good class for fighting L1 humans.

[DarkWolf]

I think in S1, they should clear the immediate perrimeter, so when they hit S2, they don't have to loaf around killing dretches and baselisks till they hit S3 and the aliens hit S2/S3 too.
Humans should have the main corridors occupied for entryways/waypoints to the alien base, and let the remaining corridors for surpise attacks for the humans, that way, the pressure on the human base will be far less because most aliens prefer to take the easiest way to the human base, and the defence structures will take care of the remaining corridors/hallways which aliens could pass by.

I, for myself, mostly take the lasgun and the light armour in S1 and clear the immediate peremitter from dretchs, baselisks and dragoons, whilst in S2, i take the light armour, helmet, jetpack (sometimes) and the lasgun and: 1. if the rest of my team is camping, my objective will be to hold out as long as possible till they get knocked to their senses and go attack (trying to tell them is 9/10 times useless, because they mosly don't listen),
or: 2. whilst my team is clearing the area, i take the fastest way to the alien base and try to damage the alien base as much as possible (A.K.A suicide run) before my teammates arrive to finish the job.

PS: in S3, if i got the credits, i take the battlesuit and lasgun (offensive, because it's ammo is enough to sustain an offensive run) or battlesuit and chaingun (defensive, because the ammo is gone too fast) and try to wretch havok to every alien around the map

Anyways, that's just my two cents, i hope some one has use to my sadvice  :wink: .

[b0rsuk]

And trying to lure humans can easily backfire - after all, they're the ones with free ranged hitscan weapons and you have only (or mostly) dretches.

Only your dretch? Oh wait, I guess you still need some training with your dretch, since it's a pretty good class for fighting L1 humans.

I see you still have to work on your aim.

[Silverius]

I don't know about that. The problem with dretches is that a skilled dretch can be very hard to hit. Sure, they are weak, but they are fast and small. And a good dretch can do 96 damage in one shot and deal the remaing four by just walking into you. Meaning that if you happen not to spot the dretch before it hits your head you're dead already.