3 Suggestions (Structure points||Scaled Points||Anti Camp)

[temple]

Sup Tremulous community,

I want to toss out 3 ideas that could help the gameplay of Tremulous.  I've been stewing these ideas for weeks and ready to present them.  Its a lot, read at your leisure.  

Structure points
Killing any structure should give the player credits or evolution points.

Human structures
Turret: 1 evolution point
Tesla generator: 2 evolution points
Defensive Computer: 3 evolution points
Medistation: 3 evolution points
Armory: 3 evolution points
Telenode: 3 evolution points
Reactor: 5 evolution points

Alien structures
Acid Tube: 175 credits
Barricade: 175 credits
Trapper: 300 credits
Hive: 300 credits
Booster: 550 credits
Eggpod: 550 credits
Overmind: 800 credits

Repeater: 0 evolution points


Scaled Points (credits or evolution points).
This suggestion is about scaling the amount of credits or evolution points players receive based on improvement of Stage related gear or class.  The difference between 2 players upgrades determines the amount of points they receive.

Humans
A Stage 1 human:
Only Light armor and any Stage 1 weapon

A Stage 2 human:
A Helmet  and any Stage 1 weapon/armor or
Pulse rifle or flamer thrower with Stage 2 or Stage 1 armor

A Stage 3 human:
A Battlesuit and any Stage 1, 2, or 3 weapon or
Lucifer cannon and any Stage Stage 1, 2, or 3 armor

Special Rules:
Grenades are not considered in the Stage evaluation for simplicity sake.
Builders' stage is based armor type.

For example,
A human with a painsaw and a helmet is considered a Stage 2 human.
A human with a painsaw and battlesuit is consider a Stage 3 human.
A human with a lucifer cannon and no armor is consider Stage 3 human (even though that is improbable).


Aliens
A Stage 1 alien is an granger, advanced granger, dretch, basilisk, marauder, or dragoon.

A Stage 2 alien is an advanced basilisk, advanced maurader, or a dragoon  whose team is at Stage 2 or Stage 3.

A Stage 3 alien is an advanced dragoon or tyrant.

Special rules
Dragon are considered Sage 1 or Stage 2, depending on what Stage their team is on.  This is because Aliens at Stage 2 still use dragoons extensively.  Dragoons at Alien Stage 3 is considered a Stage 2 opponent for humans.  So, being killed by a battlesuit or lucifer cannon means the human will only receive 75% of the credits.


When a player kills an opponent of an equal level of Stage upgrades (gear, weapons or class), they get 100% of the credits or evolution points possible.  If a player kills an opponent of a higher Stage upgrades, then still only receive 100% of the 'points' earned.

How much damage they do is considered in the award as well.  

When a player kills an opponent of a 1 lower Stage, they receive 75% of the credits or evolution points possible.  Killing an opponent 2 stages below a player awards 50% of the enemies 'point' value.  


Due to Aliens only receiving flat points (1, 2, or 3) and never partial points; the code for Alien's evolution points needs to be modified.  The raw number of evolution points stored for an alien needs to be 36.  Code wise, the cost of each class needs to be increased by a factor 4.  However, on the player's HUD, the raw evolution points total can be simply divided (no remainder) by 4, resulting in the traditional 9 evolution point max.  The evolution menu does not need to be changed.  These changes can all be made in the background and does not have to be apparent to the player.  The player will not know how many 'partial' points they have but their partial points will be saved.  A tyrant killing naked humans would have to kill 4 in order to see 1 evolution point gain.  


Point Spread
Aliens maximum credit value, based on humans Stage

Class: Stage 1 human value/Stage 2 human value/Stage 3 human value
Granger: 200/150/100
Advanced Granger: 250/250/188
Dretch: 175/131/88
Basilisk: 225/169/113
Advanced Basilisk: 275/275/206
Marauder: 350/263/175
Advanced Marauder: 450/450/338
Dragoon: 500/500/375
Advanced Dragoon: 600/600/600
Tyrant: 800/800/800

Humans maximum evolution point value, based on aliens Stage
*Remember* 1 traditional evolution point = 4 partial evolution points in this system.

Stage of human: Stage 1 alien/Stage 2 alien/Stage 3 alien
Stage 1 human: 4/3/2
Stage 2 human: 4/4/3
Stage 3 human: 4/4/4



Before people start complaining, look at the interplay between the 2 ideas

Under the new point scale, human structures are worth:
Turret: 4 partial evolution points
Tesla generator: 8 partial evolution points
Defensive Computer: 12 partial evolution points
Medistation: 12 partial evolution point
Armory: 12 partial evolution point
Telenode: 12 partial evolution points
Reactor: 20 partial evolution points

The aim of these combined changes would be change the focus of game from killing other players to killing the opposing teams base.  Killing other players will give rewards but camping inside or outside someone's base will not be as rewarding as actually killing structures.

Specifically, tyrants sitting outside the human base will not get as many evolution points as they did previously.   However, killing a 1 turret will be as valuable as killing 2 naked humans.  

Likewise, flamers or lucifer spamming human will gain more from actually shooting down structures than spamming inside the alien base randomnly or feet shooting down halls.  

A chainsuit killing a tyrant will gain more than just sweeping up dretches and tyrant will gain more from killing a chainsuit than swiping down naked riflemen.  In either case, you can still do it but it won't be as profitable as killing the base or the actual other team.


Anti-Camp structures

I suggest a special structure, available to both teams, to encourage their opponents to leave the base.  Lets call them Anti-Camp structures or A-C for short.

The Anti-Camp is basically a large structure like the Reactor or Overmind that, when build, damages the other team's reactor or overmind.  The rules of the Anti-Camp are simple.

• A-C must be built by a team's builder
• Only availible at Stage 3
• Cost 0 build points and only 1 can built
• Every 2 minutes, its takes 20% of the opponent's RC/OM maximum health
• The lost health can not be be repaired or regenerated
• Only rebuilding the RC/OM can restore its total health
• A-C must be built 2x away the power or creep radius of their RC/OM.  
• A-C regenerates its own health, like the overmind, including the human A-C
• A-C does not provide power or creep
• A-C heals friendly players near it, slowly over time.  This including the human team's Anti-Camp

In 10 minutes, the A-C will completely destroy the other team's RC/OM.  The RC/OM can be rebuilt but there will be a delay as if it was destroyed normally.  A-C will damage the RC/OM at its 2 minute intervals regardless if the OM/RC has dropped during that time.  

A Global message should be displayed alerting all players that the other team has made the A-C structure.  Both teams A-C should have around 1000 hitpoints.  I have not decided on the regeneration rate.

Humans are going to complain that Aliens will have the advantage.  I have already considered this fact by allowing both human and alien A-C to regenerate their own health and other's health.  However, humans have range, grenades, and painsaws.  A dedicate human team should be able to drop the alien A-C is they try.  Aliens, on the other hand, can evolve on the fly and don't ammo issues to consider.  The A-C gameplay is balanced by the same concepts that balance base attacks.  

My only concern is about pre-Stage 3 camping.  That is really bother some but I don't feel that both teams are evenly balanced enough to force leaving the base prior to Stage 3.  However, when 1 team reaches Stage 3, they shouldn't have to deal with camping past that point.  

The overall goal is encourage players to get on the map more and fight it out versus base rushes back and forth.  Regardless of stage progression, the team with a live A-C has to defend 2 points, instead just their base, allowing the other team more opportunities for base rushing.  Rushing an A-C is good practice for rushing a base as well, because it involves the same skills for both teams.

I thought of the names for the A-C structures for both teams.  The Human A-C could be called the "Battery" and the Alien A-C, the "Catalyst".

[n00b pl0x]

i read how many evos/credits you thought structures should give when killed and i stopped reading

[Dracone]

Same. Your amounts are rediculous and way biased towards the aliens.

And all "anti-camp" ever means lately is, "Hey, let's change the game drastically so that people don't camp."

[temple]

And all "anti-camp" ever means lately is, "Hey, let's change the game drastically so that people don't camp."

Captain Obvious has entered this thread.

[tuple]

Camping can be a strategy.  Deal with it.

Better yet, create a mod with your changes.  Measure whether or not it actually improves game balance.  Then suggest radical changes.

Your changes may not in fact be radical.  I don't know.  I suspect that you don't either.  Perhaps you should ask a coder who knows, and they can tell you the amount of work involved in implementing your suggested changes.

[Nux]

Geee.. No-one would ever dare camp if they knew one of their structures could go attack the enemy base for them...

I'm not sure how you thought this would stop people camping rather than encourage them too.

[temple]

Geee.. No-one would ever dare camp if they knew one of their structures could go attack the enemy base for them...

I'm not sure how you thought this would stop people camping rather than encourage them too.

You didn't read it.  Troll elsewhere.

[Eeeew Spiders]

About Camping: I think if (and i think so:) ) camping is a problem, it is more a probem in S1 and S2.
The interesting part about Tremulous for me is more the race towards Stage 3 than Stage 3 itself. So the A-C doesn't solve that problem for me. Maybe an alternative is to have A-C in all stages, just with different strengths in the different stages. Wouldn't a simple alternative be that acids can kill structures  as well as tesla? On Karith this tactic is already applied often, that you get acids hanging over the human base. In contrast to what everyone else says here, I think an A-C can help in situations where humans choose a hard to penetrate area for their base like for example Plant room or elevator room. Camping mosttimes is caused there because with only a view exits it gets hard to leave that base. So an A-C makes it less favorable to move to a place like that. if that's good or bad is written on another page though.

Also balance issues with A-C highly depends if aliens can hang their A-C, a point you haven't mentioned. It makes a big difference if you can simply nade that A-C.

The proposed credits you get depending on what you wear/are and what you kill is already partly there in that a killed bsuit gives you more evos than a killed naked rifle. Your Idea stretches that idea. One of the results that this could lead to is dretch spamming or spamming with naked rifle since you loose less with feeding. As a result it encourages feeding, which is not in everybodies eyes a better alternative to camping.

Credits for all killed structure is IMHO not a bad idea at all, but maybe your numbers need tweaking (which I presume you had in mind anyways).
The reason I don't think its completely bad is that sometimes I get to kill a couple of acids, loose health with it and get killed on my last 2 hp without getting any credits for my hard labor. The other side of the medal however is that with your new system aliens (and humans) have to stop making outposts or building nuisance acids away from their base. As it is now you can allow yourself a bit more liberty in building without your teammates accusing you of providing easy credits for opposing team with your building.

[temple]

Eeeew Spiders
About Camping: I think if (and i think so:) ) camping is a problem, it is more a probem in S1 and S2.

True.  However, once Alien balance vs Human balance isn't really close enough to allow both team to rush the whole time without a lot of feeding.  

The interesting part about Tremulous for me is more the race towards Stage 3 than Stage 3 itself. So the A-C doesn't solve that problem for me.

I agree and that's why I want the Anti-Camp for Stage 3.  How many games you have played where both teams are Stage 3 and the game goes on for another 20-30 minutes?  Why?  A lot of reasons, but its not because people are playing so hard.   When a team hits Stage 3, the game needs to start going towards a conclusion.  


Wouldn't a simple alternative be that acids can kill structures  as well as tesla? On Karith this tactic is already applied often, that you get acids hanging over the human base.

I already thought of that.  Defenses are just that, defenses.  They aren't called 'offenses'.  Using defenses in an offensive way would leave the base undefended, which would undermine the gameplay (i.e. shit building).

In contrast to what everyone else says here, I think an A-C can help in situations where humans choose a hard to penetrate area for their base like for example Plant room or elevator room. Camping mosttimes is caused there because with only a view exits it gets hard to leave that base. So an A-C makes it less favorable to move to a place like that. if that's good or bad is written on another page though.

I agree.
Camping happens because people want to camp.  People build hard to access bases just to enhance camping.  A perfect example is all the elevated bases that are hard for humans to actually use and makes anything other than camping difficult.

Also balance issues with A-C highly depends if aliens can hang their A-C, a point you haven't mentioned. It makes a big difference if you can simply nade that A-C.

The A-C for both teams should stay on the ground.  Grenades are already balanced.  They cost 200 credits, short range, and have to be delivered to the target.  

The proposed credits you get depending on what you wear/are and what you kill is already partly there in that a killed bsuit gives you more evos than a killed naked rifle. Your Idea stretches that idea. One of the results that this could lead to is dretch spamming or spamming with naked rifle since you loose less with feeding. As a result it encourages feeding, which is not in everybodies eyes a better alternative to camping.

People already feed, the scaled points lessen the effect.  A well geared player can still defend themselves but just siting around and killing naked riflemen or dretches isn't as rewarding.   The point of the game isn't camping outside someone base or spamming, just to get more kills.


Credits for all killed structure is IMHO not a bad idea at all, but maybe your numbers need tweaking (which I presume you had in mind anyways).
The reason I don't think its completely bad is that sometimes I get to kill a couple of acids, loose health with it and get killed on my last 2 hp without getting any credits for my hard labor. The other side of the medal however is that with your new system aliens (and humans) have to stop making outposts or building nuisance acids away from their base. As it is now you can allow yourself a bit more liberty in building without your teammates accusing you of providing easy credits for opposing team with your building.
Humans/Aliens shouldn't be building too many outposts as is.  

No one is going to get mad at someone for building turrets when the aliens are attacking them.  That's just dumb.  If you stop building you will lose faster.

The major issue here is how the game as a good pace until you hit Stage 3.  At Stage 1, 2 and even if human gets Stage 3 first; the game is pretty fun.  When aliens get Stage 3, the game stops.  Only a few brave humans can and try to attack the alien base at this point.  Even if they do attack the alien base successfully, they get shit for credits for killing eggs or OM or get no credits at all if they hit acids/trappers.  Most humans just feed tyrants (which is why I proposed Scaled points).

On the flip side, aliens that actually bother to attack the human base get punished.  Camping humans + turrets make attacking the human base a money pit or a situation where the aliens are doing what they are supposed to do but end up running out of credits.  The humans risk nothing by camping. That's why I suggested Structure points.  So players actually trying to win to game can sustain their attacks by getting points for hitting structures.  Since kill whoring naked rifle men with a Tyrant is 50% less rewarding with Scaled points, Structure points balance that out and encourage pecking at the human base.

But never the less, a camping team risks nothing.  People always say 'If you camp now, you lose later'.  That's not always true.  What happens in my experience is aliens rush the humans, the humans camp, and the aliens end up with less evos.  Then when aliens have rushed all they can, then humans (who just sat in their base the whole time), rush back without any resistance.  

The alternative is aliens could just camp outside their base and kill whore up evos instead of rushing.  But that is just as bad as the human's camping inside.

That's why I proposed the A-C so that people will have a clear disadvantage for sitting in their base.   It actually helps the other team as well.  Because the offensive team wtih an A-C will have to defend 2 points, their base and the A-C.  This gives the defending team a chance to run with map with less resistance directly outside their base, and possibly less resistance if they choose to attack the opponents base.

If a team get Stage 3 and you can't beat your way out of your base, the game shouldn't go on for another 30 minutes out of spite.  Games need to end.  Good players can do this but the servers aren't filled with good players.  Not only that but good players can still kill whore or camp if they want.

[Nux]

Geee.. No-one would ever dare camp if they knew one of their structures could go attack the enemy base for them...

I'm not sure how you thought this would stop people camping rather than encourage them too.

You didn't read it.  Troll elsewhere.

I did read it. This is how I'm able to comment on it.. but alright, I'm going to throw the irony out the window.

Your System-

I don't think you've thought this through. You say that the purpose of this A-C is to abolish camping between the races when they're both S3. This will mean that both can and will have an A-C. This also means that whoever got S3 (and the A-C) first can now just sit in their base, waiting for the enemy base to go down. They will now WANT to camp.

All the other team can do is frantically make rushes on their base to try and stop the A-C doing it's job. When the campers are now enjoying their bonus to healing and their assured opportunity to smash the enemy base in two, you won't be seeing them leave at all until the A-C has killed off their major structure. At this point, the enemy A-C will stop working and their own base will be safe, so they can now go attack the enemy base. The base itself won't put up a fight and it'll be full of players who wasted their cash/evos on futile attacks on the enemy A-C. The campers will win the day.

Hoorah?

The losers think they can try something else. Next time, when they both hit S3, they'll camp too! This is a better idea, as they can save their evos for when their major structure goes down. They would have to rebuild it ASAP and then wait for the already very damaged opponents major structure to go down. Then they attack!

Wait..

So now we have a case where camping is the best option- for both sides -whenever the enemy major structure isn't down.

Then there's the case where the enemy is sub-S3, but you are S3. With this system, EVEN THEN it'll be the best option to camp. You'd be causing camping in scenarios there never was camping in the first place.

Old System-

In my honest opinion, S3 camping punishes itself. Those who are too fearful to make an attack when they already have S3 won't necessarily have been given a choice in the matter, but if this is so then the enemy has done a good job and might just win it because of their fearsome strangle-hold on the enemy. If the camping party can make an attack, they should. If they don't, they'll lose.

Since, aliens generally don't camp, you're not likely to have this problem with aliens. Human don't have to camp though. A group of S3 humans can be a formidable force- they just don't always realise it.

[Eeeew Spiders]

Alright.. I'm going to throw the irony out the window.
Hoorah?

That's letting it out the window and back through the front door

This also means that whoever got S3 (and the A-C) first can now just sit in their base, waiting for the enemy base to go down. They will now WANT to camp.

That depends if the A-C is hard to get down. Since the operation and abilities of A-C is not yet very clear by temple's description, we don't know yet what it does.
In cases where A-C only damages structures but not players, and given the case that A-C can be damaged by dretches, the A-C is down in very short time if not being defended. This is especially true when the A-C relies on an operating repeater/egg.

So in my view, the A-C works in much the same way as the control point by CY. You need to stay there for it to be effective.
There is one major difference in A-C and CY's control point.
CY's control point is effective in S1 and S2, but looses most of it purpose once S3 is reached (since you cannot evolve further from S3) except for a burst in evo/credits every 6 minutes.
The A-C only applies to S3. So the anti-camp arguments for CY's control point can also be applied in some regards to A-C.

In my honest opinion, S3 camping punishes itself. Those who are too fearful to make an attack when they already have S3 won't necessarily have been given a choice in the matter, but if this is so then the enemy has done a good job and might just win it because of their fearsome strangle-hold on the enemy. If the camping party can make an attack, they should. If they don't, they'll lose.

With SD on, camping can become a very strong tactic. Make sure you don't feed to much until SD and that you have enough credits/evo for a rush once SD starts. In my opinion it's actually SD that makes camping worthwhile, very unfortunate. So while the thing that SD tries to fix is to finish the game, it actually often leads into making the game last longer because the tactical camper will refrain from taking to many risks before SD.
But without SD it is exactly how you describe it and how it should be imho.

Since, aliens generally don't camp, you're not likely to have this problem with aliens. Human don't have to camp though. A group of S3 humans can be a formidable force- they just don't always realise it.

And aliens do camp, they often just occupy entrances and kill everything that peeks out until SD comes, where they rush.

[St. Anger]

i read how many evos/credits you thought structures should give when killed and i stopped reading

[Nux]

That depends if the A-C is hard to get down. Since the operation and abilities of A-C is not yet very clear by temple's description, we don't know yet what it does.

He says what it does in the description:

Every 2 minutes, its takes 20% of the opponent's RC/OM maximum health

In cases where A-C only damages structures but not players, and given the case that A-C can be damaged by dretches, the A-C is down in very short time if not being defended. This is especially true when the A-C relies on an operating repeater/egg.

If the A-C needs to be defended, all the more reason to camp it while it does it's job.

So in my view, the A-C works in much the same way as the control point by CY. You need to stay there for it to be effective.

There are major differences between the CP and the A-C. The CP is a deterrent. Ideally it won't give out bonuses at all. It merely acts as a reason to leave the base (to stop them getting the bonus). The A-C is an active offense. The intention is for it to kill the enemy base (using anti-camp-magic) to try and make camping in it futile. This is still partly a deterrent as it deters you from not attacking their base when they have the A-C first. It doesn't just do this, but damages their major-structure irreparably, without any major camping having occured. Just because they haven't managed to destroy the enemy A-C in 2 minutes doesn't mean they're camping; so why be punished for it? Also, as I explain later, it doesn't get rid of camping, but merely changes the casting roles.
 

There is one major difference in A-C and CY's control point.
CY's control point is effective in S1 and S2, but looses most of it purpose once S3 is reached (since you cannot evolve further from S3) except for a burst in evo/credits every 6 minutes.

Given that S3 camping works in the way I described, then there's no reason to have the anti-camp affect it (as it already punishes itself).

With SD on, camping can become a very strong tactic.

Reaching SD wasn't intended as a tactical objective. As you quite rightly point out, people seem to see it as one and are willing to wait for SD. Camping can be helpful if done in small bursts, but waiting through S3 for a time when both sides are given the opportunity to cripple the enemy base seems foolish to me when you will more than likely bring the fight to your base, and so that's where it'll most likely stay during SD.

And aliens do camp, they often just occupy entrances and kill everything that peeks out until SD comes, where they rush.

That's a different kind of camping to the kind I meant. I meant staying near defences which can take the edge off their hp. When you have a group of humans or aliens away from the base, I wouldn't consider this camping as they are far more vulnerable and more mobile than if they were sitting on some turrets/tubes.

@temple: I'll reiterate. I don't think you've thought this through. You've come to the conclusion that a good way to stop your enemy camping is to have a super-weapon that can attack their base without any way of stopping it, other than them attacking your base. This is true if you're the first one to get the A-C up. You seem to have neglected to think about your own team. Now they don't have to attack to get the overmind/reactor down. Now you can wait on your defences while the enemy frantically throws himself at you, in vain attempts to prevent the inevitable. Now you can be the happy-campers. You haven't abolished camping. You've moved the advantage to the campers.

As for your other suggestions, the game already incorperates those ideas in a far more balanced way. For example, you already get points for killing structures that are important enough. To un-tweak the currently balanced point systems used would be to unnecessarily unbalance the game- creating problems rather than solving them.

[Eeeew Spiders]

Now they don't have to attack to get the overmind/reactor down.

Ok, now i see what you mean, instead camping in their base they will camp near their A-C (which was actually one of the critics about CP too until you see the game played). What you refer to as camping is when a team does not enter the enemy base.
However you would have to get the A-C there in the first place. Also since humans have 2 points to defend they are making themself more vulnerable.
But I see what you mean. Possible it could also turn Tremulous more into one of these war strategy games.
Mind me, I am not against or in favor of the suggestions, but I do find some of the ideas interesting in that discussing them could reveal what actually is wrong and what is right in the current game.

[Nux]

I'll admit I didn't pay enough attention to the "A-C must be built 2x away the power or creep radius of their RC/OM". This would make bases more spread and less campable. That said, I'm not sure if the maps are big enough for this sort of thing and I'm not sure what realism reasons you could attribute to this limit.

I'm all for creative suggestions, but I will criticize judgements that are based on faulty premises.

[temple]

You can't build the A-C anywhere near your base.  I said 2x the power/control radius of the team's OM/RC.  

You don't have to build any defenses around it.  The only thing spread is your players.  Which is the whole point, get people moving around.

Humans can build a repeater nearby, and with the A-C's regen aura for both teams, can defend an A-C as long as they live.  For humans, I envision them making an A-C is a high place where Tyrants can't touch it (instead putting the whole base up there) and sniping any aliens that come near.

For Aliens, they have more to worry about because humans can snipe it at range (the luci will really make it hard) and grenade/painsaw.  It will force aliens to do a little more than Tyrant rush all the time.  

The real strategy is the fact that the OM/RC will lose maximum health.  So after 4 or 6 minutes, any player could rush the OM/RC and possibly kill it faster.  

Worst scenario, the A-C kills the RC/OM and you have maybe a 45 seconds of no defenses.  That's all. If you really wanted to camp, you could camp through the A-C's destruction of your RC/OM.  But at least you have some consequence for staying in your base.

[Nux]

Just so that you know- from the default position for the reactor on ATCS, 2x the radius is slightly further than half way across the map. For the OM it's slightly shorter than half way across the map

You don't have to build any defenses around it.. but you have a very good reason to.

Now that you have 2 very important structures. One that helps you win aswell as the one that helps you not lose. Since these (for artificial reasons) have to be seperate, this gives more reason to camp the bases, to make sure neither gets taken down due to thinner defences.

So long as you can camp it to keep it up until the enemy base goes down by magic, I can imagine people will do so. It's the ability to remotely attack like this which I doubt is a good measure against camping.

[temple]

Just so that you know- from the default position for the reactor on ATCS, 2x the radius is slightly further than half way across the map. For the OM it's slightly shorter than half way across the map

You don't have to build any defenses around it.. but you have a very good reason to.

Now that you have 2 very important structures. One that helps you win aswell as the one that helps you not lose. Since these (for artificial reasons) have to be seperate, this gives more reason to camp the bases, to make sure neither gets taken down due to thinner defences.

So long as you can camp it to keep it up until the enemy base goes down by magic, I can imagine people will do so. It's the ability to remotely attack like this which I doubt is a good measure against camping.

How can you camp 2 points well?  Explain that to me General Patton.

[daenyth]

Everyone makes these suggestions, but noone codes them. How sad.


You can complain about camping all you want on the forums, no one gives  a crap unless you make the mod to test your idea yourself. I'm pretty damn sure the trem devs aren't gonna make it for you.

[temple]

Everyone makes these suggestions, but noone codes them. How sad.


You can complain about camping all you want on the forums, no one gives  a crap unless you make the mod to test your idea yourself. I'm pretty damn sure the trem devs aren't gonna make it for you.

No one is going to play it just because you code it.  I want to see if people are at least interested.

[Nux]

How can you camp 2 points well?  Explain that to me General Patton.

Here's a little diagram

Key-

AC ----- A-C
R ------- Reactor
O ------- Human
X ------- Turret

Code: [Select]

1 Base                          
 _______Yay, the base can defend itself! =D
|                          
O                                                       X
 O                                                     X R X
O                                                       O X
                                 No it can't! >8( ______|

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2 Bases                                                                          
      ______Nooo! The base can't defend itself =(
   X |                        
  AC O                                              O
  X O                                                 X R X
                                                        O
                                  I agree.. =( _________|

They have to defend if they want both major structures to stay up now that the defences are distributed. You don't have to have any defences over at the A-C- this would just mean you'd have all your team camping it.