Author Topic: Some Human Techniques.  (Read 13266 times)

Bullislander05

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Some Human Techniques.
« on: August 06, 2007, 10:11:25 pm »
Hey guys,

Oftentimes when I am playing tremulous, I notice that there are a few techniques I see myself using constantly and other humans using as well.  I figured the other day I would write a post on the strategies section and help educate many of the members of the tremulous community.

Anyways, I'm going to start with crouching.  While many people think crouching is an ineffective thing except when camping, it's quite useful.  For example, did you know it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a headshot against a human who is crouching?  That's because the hitbox for their head disappears, and all that is left is their legs and torso.

No alien can one-hit kill a human who is crouching except for a tyrant.  (Warning, if you are stage 2 or stage 3 and have a helmet DO NOT CROUCH when facing a tyrant.  As soon as you crouch your helmet becomes ineffective in protecting you and the tyrant can one-hit kill you)  So, knowing this, when humans get in trouble and are only stage 1 and aliens have goons or mara's even, they can team up, pick up some shotguns, and when they expect to get chomped by an alien to do a quick crouch, take the hit, and then stand back up.  If you want to be paranoid, just crouch all the way down to the aliens base, but I find that quite annoying.

This method works especially well versus marauders, because it requires them to hit you 3 times to kill you, and when they usually jump over you to get a quick headshot, if you crouch, they can't reach you anymore and you get a free shot at their belly.  Once they do that 3 or 4 times you have them dead.

When facing goons, unless you are in a group, you will most likely die anyways, because a pounce-chomp will kill you in 2 shots anyways.   The best trick in that case is to circle the goon as much as possible, and when you see the goon getting ready to hit you, you crouch.  All the while shooting the goon as much as possible.  Remember though, as soon as you crouch and take a shot, you MUST get up and run.  Try to use your medi, but don't worry about crouching again if you have anything under 80 HP.

Next, another trick I like to use is when I'm facing a goon in the hall in ATCS on one of the ramps.  If I am on the top of the ramp I try to jump on top of them and try to ride them as much as possible, or if I'm on the bottom of the ramp, I crouch and let them come right at me once they get close, because they will usually walk right over you and miss you completely.  If you do manage to get on top of a goon, remember to stay on there as much as possible.  A goon cannot hit you at all if you are on top of it.  Pounces don't even work.  It's just the way they are for some reason.

Anyways, my final "trick", more of a dodging strategy, is to circle, circle, circle.  Whenever you see a big alien coming up to you that will require more than one shot, do whatever you can to get around it, and avoid it's claws.  Sometimes the alien is just too far away and can counter any move you make.  Just think of it like you were a running back for your football team, and you have to get by one defender rapidly approaching you.  The defender is going for the tackle, but if you can avoid him for 5 seconds, you usually will have someone else on your team come and block him for you (I.E. getting the kill in trem).  Dodging requires much forethought.  You have to know where the alien will likely go, and see everything from his viewpoint and try to lead him into a trap.  If you are facing a good alien, most of the time you will die, but if you are in a group or get lucky, you might finish him off alone.

Anyways, just a little post to jump-start some people's training as humans, and maybe give a tip or two to some people who think they know it all.  =)

Thanks for reading,
-Bull

Overdose

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2007, 10:32:32 pm »
That was really good, some nice tips in there. I didn't know about the anti-headshot while crouching lol.
A while back I was playing on Cerberus, and the 5 of us on the human team went around crouching through most of the match. It was hilarious at the time, but now when I look back I realize how little damage we actually took while fighting. So thanks for the new info!
Chocolate Milk.

Caveman

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2007, 10:35:11 pm »
hint for the aliens. just jump onto the croucher and aim straight down. No more than 2 hits are needed.

Geni3

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2007, 11:00:42 pm »
if you don't have larmour goons will still 1hit u with pounce or chomp unless u jump

Bullislander05

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2007, 11:43:56 pm »
Yea, without larmor, pounces will kill you.  Chomps will not though.  Chomps only do 80 damage even without larmor.

And Caveman, 2 hits only works if you're a goon.  If you're a mara it's 3 and I haven't memorized how much damage a basi does to a human but my guess would be 3 or 4.  Marauders do 40 damage when you crouch, goons do 80, and dretches do 48.

-Bull

kevlarman

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2007, 12:01:07 am »
Quote from: "Bullislander05"
Yea, without larmor, pounces will kill you.  Chomps will not though.  Chomps only do 80 damage even without larmor.

And Caveman, 2 hits only works if you're a goon.  If you're a mara it's 3 and I haven't memorized how much damage a basi does to a human but my guess would be 3 or 4.  Marauders do 40 damage when you crouch, goons do 80, and dretches do 48.

-Bull
no, the head bbox is still there, just because you play against aliens that can only headshot by aiming straight up doesn't mean everyone does, against any competent aliens crouching just says "headshot me".
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
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Caveman

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2007, 12:50:06 am »
Quote from: "Bullislander05"
Yea, without larmor, pounces will kill you.  Chomps will not though.  Chomps only do 80 damage even without larmor.

And Caveman, 2 hits only works if you're a goon.  If you're a mara it's 3 and I haven't memorized how much damage a basi does to a human but my guess would be 3 or 4.  Marauders do 40 damage when you crouch, goons do 80, and dretches do 48.

-Bull


Come again?
Lets meet up somewhere and I can show you the lowly dretch that will take out the croucher with _2_ bites. As Kev already said, crouching will not hide the hitbox for the head, it is just difficult to hit when you are not used to it.
So once again

Jump on the croucher and aim straight down and you will need no more hits than when the human is upright.

Bullislander05

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2007, 03:57:45 am »
Ok guys, I have proof that you are wrong with my demo's.  I used every alien attack except for marauder attacks and the basilisk's gas.  If you guys have any disputes over those experiment for yourselves.

I just made 2 demo's showcasing what happens when every alien attacks a human standing up, and crouching.  Here they are:

http://uppit.com/d/683NW

I hope this settles any disputes.

-Bull

temple

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2007, 08:30:21 am »
I think what happens, I've seen it posted somewhere, is that when you crouch, your head hitbox gets squeezed between the arms/chest/back area.  Its doesn't disappear, it just becomes vague.  The arms/chest/back all have different armor calculations and it also varies with whether you are crouching or standing.  

http://satgnu.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Humans.LightArmour has the specifics of the different armor calculations.

I wouldn't recommend crouching because as a human, it restricts motion and as an alien, I'll just jump behind you.

VS goon or tyrant, your best bet is jumping instead of crouching anyway (if you can time either one of them against a chomp).  It just sounds like you wanted to tell everyone about crouching instead of giving the best advice.

Bullislander05

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2007, 09:33:28 pm »
Actually, I find crouching more effective.  I'm not saying you fight the entire time while crouched.  You time when you think the alien might hit you and take a quick crouch.  And plus, jumping wastes stamina, quickly.  Usually, if you're sprinting and jumping you'll only get 2 jumps in and then your human gets tired and gets as slow as if you were crouching anyway.

Also, temple, show me a demo of you hitting the head hitbox sometime and I'll believe you.  If you watched mine, you would realize that it disappears from the top completely when you crouch.

Also, I was saying don't crouch against a tyrant because he will 1-hit kill you anyways.  So in that case, sure, jumping is a good bet.  But remember you lose stamina quickly.

And, finally, who are you to say who's advice is better?  People may listen to yours, and some people may listen to mine.  It's naive to think that you know more than everyone who plays tremulous.

-Bull

temple

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2007, 11:12:21 pm »
Quote from: "Bullislander05"
Actually, I find crouching more effective.  I'm not saying you fight the entire time while crouched.  You time when you think the alien might hit you and take a quick crouch.  And plus, jumping wastes stamina, quickly.  Usually, if you're sprinting and jumping you'll only get 2 jumps in and then your human gets tired and gets as slow as if you were crouching anyway.

Also, temple, show me a demo of you hitting the head hitbox sometime and I'll believe you.  If you watched mine, you would realize that it disappears from the top completely when you crouch.

Also, I was saying don't crouch against a tyrant because he will 1-hit kill you anyways.  So in that case, sure, jumping is a good bet.  But remember you lose stamina quickly.

And, finally, who are you to say who's advice is better?  People may listen to yours, and some people may listen to mine.  It's naive to think that you know more than everyone who plays tremulous.

-Bull


Your demo was off.  I didn't want to go there because I watched late last night and didn't want to break out the calculator.

The human was standing, you hit him 7 times...in the head.
That's off.

Dretch bite = 48
48 x 200% of damage for hitting the head = 96
30% of 96 damage = 28.8 (Helmet decreases damage by 70%, so it deal 30%)
100 total health / 28.8 damage per hit = 3.5 hits to kill

So when the human was standing, it should have taken 3-4 hits to kill him, if you were hitting the head.  

Probably you were hitting the chest, which takes roughly 8 hits (75% damage reduction = 25% damage dealt of 48 damage per bite out of 100 health = 8 hits)

Actually, if you killed him in 7 hits, you were hitting his arms and not the chest.  Or was it the head?

When the human was crouching with the helmet, you killed him in 3 hits, which is what it takes to kill a helmeted player.

Maybe you can't aim and was hitting his arms the whole time during your 'tests'.


I don't care if anyone follows my advice.  They can suck all they want.  Nice strawman on the whole 'you think you know better than everyone' as well.  
Math gud.

DHRUVINATOR

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2007, 11:35:33 pm »
Nice info. Nice calculations:P
Just me.

kevlarman

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2007, 11:43:23 pm »
the modifier on larmor (chest,standing) is .35, which means 6 hits or 7 depending on how rounding works (7 on .so, 6 on .qvm)
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----

Bullislander05

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2007, 09:28:53 pm »
Ok, so one of my calculations was off.  I probably was missing when it took 7 shots to hit him standing up, but you can't deny that the other ones were correct, and in fact, when crouching, the head hitbox disappears.

If you would like, I will get on the wall as a dretch and do it from straight down.  But, the whole point of the demo was to show that crouching eliminates the head hitbox, which you can't deny.

-Bull

jit

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Re: Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2007, 02:10:54 am »
Quote from: "Bullislander05"

Anyways, my final "trick", more of a dodging strategy, is to circle, circle, circle.  Whenever you see a big alien coming up to you that will require more than one shot, do whatever you can to get around it, and avoid it's claws.  Sometimes the alien is just too far away and can counter any move you make.  Just think of it like you were a running back for your football team, and you have to get by one defender rapidly approaching you.  The defender is going for the tackle, but if you can avoid him for 5 seconds, you usually will have someone else on your team come and block him for you (I.E. getting the kill in trem).  Dodging requires much forethought.  You have to know where the alien will likely go, and see everything from his viewpoint and try to lead him into a trap.  If you are facing a good alien, most of the time you will die, but if you are in a group or get lucky, you might finish him off alone.


just want to point something out. In football, if you play, you don't have 5 seconds to avoid some idiot tryin to tackle you. Chances are, your not Reggie Bush and can run circles around the whole field w/o getting hit. You gotta dodge in less than a second. Also most likely, a teammate should have already blocked for you considering you would have a decently strong fullback in front of you. In the open field, more of a juke would help you.

But back to the topic. Yea i like some of the techniques, sorta :P

Hk

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2007, 01:27:44 pm »
Another technique I found useful is something that is similar to Star Treks bypass-maneveur of fast ships..

You face the alien face to face, in a little distance, and if he comes at you, you get your sprining activated and pass on his left or right side, shooting him in the flank (chose the side randomly to be less predictable).
This works pretty well against most medium skilled aliens in areas with enough space and those few-shots-with-lotsa-damage-guns (shotguns, lucies, mds), however, you can use it with other guns as well, however, Id rather stay further away with those guns

_Equilibrium_

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2007, 09:28:19 pm »
uestion: how come when you crouch with larmour and a helm, the tyrant can kill u with 1 slash?

kevlarman

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2007, 10:05:59 pm »
Quote from: "_Equilibrium_"
uestion: how come when you crouch with larmour and a helm, the tyrant can kill u with 1 slash?
*points to technical questions forum desgined for questions just like this*
i'll get back to you on this one, the crouching location damage is a bit funky, but i'm not completely sure how.
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----

Vector_Matt

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2007, 02:31:47 pm »
Quote from: "_Equilibrium_"
uestion: how come when you crouch with larmour and a helm, the tyrant can kill u with 1 slash?
Mabey they hope the tyrant will attack to high up, and miss them

Coca-Cola

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Some Human Techniques.
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2007, 06:12:26 am »
Goon barbs kill a crouched human in one hit.
f the brain was simple to understand, we'd be too simple to understand it.

Quote from: "Caveman"
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