Author Topic: Open The Sky Project(Images!)  (Read 286764 times)

ShadowNinjaDudeMan

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« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2007, 04:20:39 pm »
This seems a really cool idea, the way its designed means it could be like a



However it would look weird but its an animal movement that kinda suits it.

ONOEZ!!! A FLYING ALIEN JELLYFISH!!!

It would be totally worth it just to be able to yell that.
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Redsky

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« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2007, 07:31:29 pm »
more like parachute than jellyfish... it would slowly fall down :) and  it makes me think of something more than lift of wings... air resistance=> slow down speed... that would make the thing without pressing 'x'... must think about it

but look at this:


this is my FIRST uv-mapping i had ever done!!! 8) (took me something 6h :) ) And i wont even call it perfect...
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ShadowNinjaDudeMan

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« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2007, 08:09:30 pm »
Dont worry, to me its perfect, I dont know a thing about UV.

Which BLENDER tutorial did ye use?
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player1

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« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2007, 09:52:14 pm »
Quote from: "Redsky"
I knew i can always count on pleyer1. He has lots of ideas and he doesn't mind sharing it with others  :D


:) *blushes*
Yes, me am big-mouth plenty-talker and sand-castle builder (I type with maybe three fingers).

Quote from: "Redsky"
well first the names - i like very much this names:harpy(just like basilisk) vandal(like goon, mara,tyrant) wampyri(sounds nice 8) )


Glad you like the names. I tried to stay in keeping with the Alien naming-conventions. My favorites are underlined, the others I just tossed out as they occurred to me. As you can see, I am most partial to Harrier (since it describes the action such Aliens will have on Humans, hehheh). I agree that Harpy goes well with Basilisk and that Vandal fits in nicely with Marauder, and also feel that those names nicely sum up the model you have made. :D (I still like DeathFromAbove:Playerhater, lol).

Quote from: "Redsky"
Quote from: "player1"
but i definitely agree
in return Human team gets:
super shotgun (s2), nailgun (s2) & railgun (s3)
and how will little flying alien be any danger to this monsters???


:)
This makes me laugh because I am reading Stanislaw Lem right now (humans truly are fearsome monstrosities).

Still, I think that even with the relatively low health, and the late availability of the Harrier/Harpy/Vandal, that the faster movement speed (quicker than Basilisk on the floor, wall or ceiling & quicker than jetpack while in flight), the flight ability, the mini-pounce and the ranged attack of the Advanced version more than makes up for a few new guns for the Humans to shoot each other in the back of the head with. With FF on, a couple of skilled Harriers could practically keep the n00bz busy shooting each other. :P Also, the low buy-in (1 or 2 evos) certainly makes the Harrier/Harpy/Vandal an appealing class of Alien to play. Lastly, not only the variety of attacks, but the variety of damage done by the flying Alien (more for unprotected headshots, more while flying, less while not flying, damage dealt by touching enemy, mini-pounce for silent launch, ranged attack of caustic spit, etc.) will combine to make this class interesting and playable, while not too over- or under-powered.

Quote from: "Redsky"
I also like this idea with a caustic spit (not too powerful though) but should it be infinite(like grangers)?


I think for the extra evo, and waiting another Stage (s3), it should be pretty powerful, but I agree that maybe it should have some limitation, like six or twelve spits and then the Harrier/Harpy/Vandal has to regenerate that ability again, like an Adv Goon (only a +goon gets just three, while a +harrier would get like nine or something, with a shorter regen period than the +goon).

Quote from: "Redsky"
Minipounce=>jump up & wave wings :)
jet pack way of flying would make players go: "omg, its just a alien with jet pack"  :(


I think the taunt ("F") should be wave wings ("chitter, chitter"); "Here I am, lawl!" :D

The mini-pounce was just my idea of the crazy spiderbat things coiling themselves and then silently launching themselves as face-sucking, head-biting, horrifying little flying dretches. Imagine mini-pouncing harriers in the crossbeams in the Human base on Nexus6. :P

I purposely kept the controls the same as the jetpack so that players would have a smoother transition to the new class. I agree that it would seem less novel. I think it would be easiest to code.

One point I would like to reiterate is that flying aliens should go faster than jetpacks, as they have less health, a weak ranged attack (or none at all), and cannot add armor (although they can become a slightly more robust batspider for another evo, in a later stage). So even though they are using jetpack-like controls, they have mini-pounce, they don't make noise unless they change an input (tap another key), and they are going faster than a jettard.

I'd say movement speed should be 1.2 times Basilisk while walking/running/wallwalking.

Normal flight speed should be about 1.2 times that of a jetpack, while speedburst ("X"), should be about 1.5 times that of a jetpack, but be limited by stamina (only so many speedbursts per unit time, no speedbursts below n stamina, etc.).

Quote from: "Redsky"
about flying, i would make it pounce in mid air(wave wings) but with no recharging(it would boost up speed)(also with sound)


I would personally keep "X" for sprint/speedburst (but only while flying).
I would have mini-pounce work only when in contact with an object which to mini-pounce away from (something to push on for equal yet opposite reaction).
The Harpy/Harrier/Vandal would "fly" when flying mode is enabled, but (here is the cool part) it would "glide" at other times, when in the air, instead of falling normally (due to glidewing/umbrella-membrane/flyingsquirrel-thingy/batspider mutation/parachute-carapace).
So with mini-pounce spiderbat can silently launch itself and glide.
Players could even toggle "flying" mode on and off, and "glide" betweentimes. :P
Flying Aliens will not "fall" like other objects, providing they are rightside-up.
If they are upside-down, they will fall like a rock. :)
 
Quote from: "Redsky"
... its model of flight i was thiinking of: glide + wave wing(with rightclick) whan it glides it slowly loses speed(please, tell me what you think of this flight model)<=if that could come true, flying would be more exciting than you could ever imagine :)


See my above explanation of the way I envision the flight and glide modes of movement.

 
Quote from: "Redsky"
about 2 stages:6 and 8 leg would need two different animations, im not saying i cant do it :roll:


Yeah, I just threw that out there. :) It would probably be too much work, server load, etc. I hate to see you trash either model, since both look cool. I think the eight-legged one is really nice (maybe even prettier than the other), but the six-legged one in just more Tremulous, in some way, in my opinion.

Anyway, great-looking start. Glad to help in any small way, even if it's just to give bad names and silly suggestions. Good luck with it. I'd love to test it. I hope I haven't wandered too far from your original concept, and that you'll consider trying a more default type of control scheme. Take care.

Cheers!

sry 4 writing so much :oops:

Remember, while flying, any change in input causes noise (possibly even toggling flight mode on). Otherwise Harrier/Harpy/Vandal is silent.

While I'm being long-winded, I will also add that I think the flying/gliding physics will be really fun to play, and the reduced (input-dependent) noise, increased speed, speedburst ability and class-specific falling physics will differentiate the Harrier from the jettard experience, while still presenting the same sort of control inputs that the player has come to expect. (WASD, C, SPACEBAR, ENTER, X, F, LEFT-CLICK, etc.) Note that wallwalk toggle could be disabled during flight mode, only being used for "descend", and that wallwalk would then remain in last state or instantly be turned off (on?).

Lastly, I'm writing this on my MacBook. There is no right-click which appears to be recognized by Tremulous without an external mouse (CTRL-click does not seem to work). I am too lazy/apathetic/non-l33t/casual/recreational of a player to remap it, since I have an external mouse and keyboard. ENTER is always easy to find.

Laptop players are drawn to Alien, and indeed dretches, basis and maras are playable with the trackpad. I'd like to see Harpies/Vandals/Harriers be equally easy to play on the laptop. Simply press ENTER to fly, and press it again to "fall" in a controllable "glide". No pumping a non-existent right-click or remapped or multikey "flap-wings" combo (even though it is a really cool idea, I object on playability grounds, in the eye of the extremely casual recreational laptop gamer). :D No mini-pounce on the laptop? No big deal. Still got all other Flying Alien cool features.

How did you like the name: Kvetch? :P
:D 8)

Flying Movement Noise Sound: ch-ch-chitter (caused by any change in input)
Taunt Sound: ch-chitter-err
Like a cicada or a cricket, the sound of chitinous bodyparts rubbing in bloodlust and excitation.

@Survivor: The inexact aim for Harrier spit would be an elegant solution. They simply wouldn't have really accurate aim, at any range greater than say, twice the height of a human (twelve apparent in-game feet, or about four apparent in-game meters). Close up, they would be as accurate as the player is, but farther away they would be nerfed. If I can get right next to your head with my flying dretch, though, I shouldn't have my aim messed with, but farther away, I should have to arc or "lob" the spittle-blob to aim accurately.

What do you think of the "glide-instead-of-falling-if-rightside-up" solution? The player can then fly or wallwalk to regain height. (Glide would be at jetpack speed, unless speedburst is used). Even with the speedburst and fast default flying and crawling speeds, I think that with the arrow-like trajectory of the spitball and weak "touch-to-damage" attack, that the Flying Alien will be sufficiently semi-balanced/fun/novel/cool. It only has a really strong attack against weaker enemies (the unhelmeted) or helpless structures left unrepaired (time-release anti-structure caustic "venom").

Redsky

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« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2007, 01:15:10 pm »
i have to go out for some time(1 day) and i cant post a reply now but soon i will. with a small technical note about flying and how it would be probably calculated

See You Soon!!! :D

PS. im thinking of making again UV-mapping - it dont look to good to me!
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Werewulf

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« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2007, 01:43:32 pm »
VERY NICE, send the model to me and I'll gladly texture it for you.

Just send it in 3ds format and I should be able to work from there.

If you wish to see my texture work then reply and I'll send you a pm (instead of dragging it here)

Samurai.mac

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« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2007, 03:23:59 pm »
A little suggestion, ther way I'd do it:

Grab ability, like the Basilisk, it is able to grab hold on a human (for swooping down on top and grabbing them)
Bite, it's main attack.
Extend/Contract wings, secondary "attack"
Ability to charge it's jump, similar to the Dragoon pounce.
Pressing jump while gliding flaps the wings once, providing a little extra lift. Press it repeatedly to gain additional lift.
Pressing crouch in mid-glide acts as a sort of air-brake, drastically reducing airspeed and lift.
Pressing crouch with wings contracted toggles walkwalking mode.

Looking at this, I sort of imagine it as being like the bat aliens from "It Conquered The World", but more deadly and less rubbery.

Plague Bringer

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« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2007, 05:32:39 pm »
I honestly don't mean to be the party pooper here. But look at Risujin's Fletch. It failed, and it was just as popular as this. It wasn't finished because Risujin didn't have enough time and didn't like the textures, and no other modders wanted anything to do with the project IIRC. let's hope the same fate does not befall this project. It's going really well.
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ShadowNinjaDudeMan

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« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2007, 06:51:30 pm »
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
It's going really well.


Dont worry, your not the PP any more.
Lol.

I would love to see this as well as like Extreme Tremulous.

Like a total WAR between Aliens and Humans.

Like Tactical Nukes, Vehicles, Blooody Massive aliems and Human Walkers.

Then we would hav the normal Tremulous, smaller scale scrims.
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Vector_Matt

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« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2007, 11:17:01 pm »
Quote from: "Samurai.mac"
Grab ability, like the Basilisk, it is able to grab hold on a human (for swooping down on top and grabbing them)
Except if this is only 1-2 evos, then it would make basi completely obsolete. Why get a slower walking one, when you can get a faster flying one?

HamStar

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« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2007, 12:20:03 am »
Cuz basi is for pr0's only.

player1

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don't take away all the Basi powers!
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2007, 07:00:15 am »
Quote from: "Vector_Matt"
Quote from: "Samurai.mac"
Grab ability, like the Basilisk, it is able to grab hold on a human (for swooping down on top and grabbing them)
Except if this is only 1-2 evos, then it would make basi completely obsolete. Why get a slower walking one, when you can get a faster flying one?


I agree.

While I like the idea of the caustic spit having the power to slow Humans down, I think it would be overpowered, render Basis useless, and allow the Flying Alien to produce creep, all of which I would not recommend.

The caustic spit I envision as somewhat useful against armored Humans (something the basic Flying Alien is pretty much not, the Advanced Flying Alien - being a Stage 3 class - must be), but mostly useful against Human structures.

I also believe it should do long-term time-release damage to Human structures, like a poison for turrets. Any caustic spit which damages an object will continue to periodically do reduced damage to that structure, as long as and until such structure is repaired, deconstructed, or destroyed.

Redsky

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« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2007, 11:26:42 am »
Technic Note about Flight

There seem to br some kind of misunderstanding every time i try to explain what is so special in flight model I insist on all the time.  :wink: Here ais something spectial about it as you will see.
A little bit of phisis:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing(but all you need to know from this page is: "A common use of wings is in flight, using forward motion to create vertical lift, but wings are also used to produce downforce." :) As you know wing must move in right direction to lift from the ground(forward). Well imagine that alien is that kind of wing and he also must move in right direction to create a lift. We can check if speed he moves in any direction within 3D space creates that lift(and how strong this lift would be). All we need is angle between Z axis (line from aliens center to center place of camera) and speed vector:

a=g/h*x*cosB*v
if a is negative value than it there is no lift(a=>0)
(a-lift force;g- ingame grav.; h- default grav.; x- some value or a function  of (v*cosB): v- speed value)*if you want to know how i came to this formula just pm me, i dont want to make this thread to boring  :wink:

If you can check angle and if you can add speed to object(Y-axis) than you are able to make this model.Merits of it:
-very flexible
-realistic
-easer to made than some other things you told me about :) (i think so)
If you still dont know how this model will look like than imagine yourself a paper plane(its not controlled but you can see how it would glide and manoeuvre) remember? move mouse to sides to change angle of alien(and its lift) and... move to the sides :)
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Redsky

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Re: don't take away all the Basi powers!
« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2007, 12:12:46 pm »
Quote from: "player1"
Quote from: "Vector_Matt"
Quote from: "Samurai.mac"
Grab ability, like the Basilisk, it is able to grab hold on a human (for swooping down on top and grabbing them)
Except if this is only 1-2 evos, then it would make basi completely obsolete. Why get a slower walking one, when you can get a faster flying one?


I agree.

Me too :)
But this caustic spit damaging structures till they are down is too powerful you know. It would crash human base in max. 3 minutes- you wouldnt have time to fly around and enjoy yourself :wink:
Plague Bringer, i wont stop this project even if i will have to learn C language . And i know im not alone! no worry :D
Player1, harpy can get can have 3 spits with faster regeneration(like adv mara in tremX),
Quote from: "player1"
sry 4 writing so much
You make this thread more interesting :)
controls wouldnt much change: but whan birds fly thay cant just stop anytime and move to the sides(like jettard can) so wsad is useless, mouse wouldnt change that much, and about your MacBook wave wings can be made by "W" key (in mid air)-that is one pressing one flap. And as im thinking about it, this alien would take 2 evo to evolve(between basi and goon) but it wouldnt have more hp than and basi and should have less powerful attack than mara(price for fly ability) and shouldnt suck out blood either. Tell me what do You think about it?
PS. Sorry for double post  :oops:
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techhead

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« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2007, 09:03:01 pm »
If you want something simpler:

Space bar jumps; You may jump in midair.
While in the air, you slowly glide down.
Large amount of air control; no friction. (Maybe 50% normal)
Hold crouch to drop down with gravity, release to glide again.

Simply, easy to learn for beginners, fair learning curve for the pros, and it makes sense.
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Redsky

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« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2007, 10:01:11 am »
Quote from: "techhead"
Space bar jumps; You may jump in midair.
While in the air, you slowly glide down.
Sure jumps=>wave wings(add speed)about glide(it will be allways on whan "fly" in on, its in flight model :)
Quote from: "techhead"
Large amount of air control; no friction. (Maybe 50% normal)

ok, i think it will have large amout of air control, and less friction thats for sure
Quote from: "techhead"
Hold crouch to drop down with gravity, release to glide again.

 toggle between modes:fly & walk(same button :D )
Quote from: "techhead"
Simply, easy to learn for beginners, fair learning curve for the pros, and it makes sense.

It may sound a little bit too complicated but in game im sure it will be quick and easy to understand. It would take some time to master it to pro level of course, but it would take no time to learn how to fly(only new thing it will do is rotate whan moving to the sides in a little different way :wink: Im waiting for other comments :)
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Divmax

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« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2007, 01:21:03 pm »
If this is going to be a success, please add in stamina for this little alien, or else we have to create another word for the alien camping in the sky......
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Samurai.mac

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« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2007, 01:47:47 pm »
Ah but a sky camping alien is cannon-fodder for humans, the reason human "sky-campers" can pose a threat is because until Stage 3 it's difficult to get up to them and bring them down without the larger pouncer and projectile abilities of the Advanced Dragoon. Aslo, presumably this thing can't stay still while in the air, which eliminates it's ability to camp.

Vector_Matt

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« Reply #48 on: August 20, 2007, 03:00:59 pm »
Quote from: "Divmax"
If this is going to be a success, please add in stamina for this little alien, or else we have to create another word for the alien camping in the sky......
In glide mode it slowly looses height.

Redsky

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« Reply #49 on: August 20, 2007, 03:46:46 pm »
Quote from: "Vector_Matt"
In glide mode it slowly looses height.
if it doesnt use its wings...
But i want to ask you one question Divmax. Why should that alien ever camp in the sky?? to get shoot easly and have no chance to attack...(having a highly inaccurate spits makes him useless in long range battle. Human can skycamp because they attack from distance. All though stamina isnt that bad idea there is other problem:
Aliens have no stamina  :roll: So it came to changing all aliens? Anyway there would not be any problem with camping in mid air coz every camper would die instantly. Attacking-Yes, Camping-No
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Death On Ice

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« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2007, 12:15:51 am »
Amazing models :eek:

I think this would flow very well into TremX :P

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« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2007, 01:15:28 am »
It should be able to transport small units like the granger and dretch to bring them faster to the pressure point, or to run out safely. This unit should also be able to lift human and drop them from high place or in lava pit.
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« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2007, 02:05:54 am »
Quote from: "Flower"
This unit should also be able to lift human and drop them from high place or in lava pit.


Oh ya, I'm sure humans will all line up to be picked up and dropped to their death.  :)

But about flying speed I think normal should be around at least 1.5 times the speed of jetpack. I mean have you seen how slow jetpacks really are? They are actually very slow, humans can out-walk them.

But great model, great work, I really hope this gets completed!
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« Reply #53 on: August 22, 2007, 10:02:16 am »
Poly count?


'bout 5000 methinks

Good work anyways
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« Reply #54 on: August 22, 2007, 11:09:36 am »
TremX or Arccade... I don't realy care as long I find this someday in trem. ^^
And far as I know the fletch thingy got busted coz the modeller disapeared and it was not animated. ris sed he would do it if modeller would not soon show up but in the end he did not do it anyway.
In tremX this would be great since it already is totaly messed up mod (that is the only reason it is so much fun xD)

Rawr

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« Reply #55 on: August 22, 2007, 08:04:14 pm »
I'll be looking forward to this. Just an FYI, Chompers has been "modeling" something like this, a flying critter for over 4 months. And hasn't produced a thing. Good luck  :wink:
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player1

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more than simply ironic...
« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2007, 12:59:20 am »
Off Topic:
Name change, huh, Funky Duck?

On Topic: Redsky, good luck with it. Sounds really cool. I'll throw in my two cents occasionally. If you can get your more complex flight model to work, it could be cool. Maybe you should start an "Animator wanted" thread. Cheers!

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« Reply #57 on: August 23, 2007, 06:27:50 pm »
It's good to hear that you're dedicated to this project, Redsky. You've put a lot of effort into this, and I'm sure you'll continue to do so, I hope to see your model in Tremulous some day.
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Redsky

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« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2007, 09:45:34 pm »
Quote from: "Kaleo"
Poly count?


'bout 5000 methinks

 :eek: ??? what does it mean this 'methinks'??
(im noob as well in modeling as in english :oops: )
'Poly'<=you are talking of faces, right?
 if yes than it has 706 (in blender, i dont know how much as md3 file)
^it sounds not too good, does it mean model would have some problem in game

About animations:

Quote from: "tehOen"
and yes you should use armature

If so maybe animation wouldnt be so big problem with good skeleton, IK Solvers, Rot Limits maybe this wouldnt be so hard to do? :)

The only problem i got is UV-mapping. As my UV arent that good :-?
Werewulf made it for me:
you can see his render
But he was working with 3d Studio and now i cant open his UV :cry: and there is no help about it on internet.(he done some fine work and now its wasted)
I i done some Uv but it doesnt look too good... and whan i try to do it in a way shown on Video Tutorials everything flips in wrong possition and i cant fix.
it makes me mad :evil:

im not a modeler Im just a player. Just want to play with it make some tricks in air :D
Im soo glad you like my model
I want to thank all of You for cheering me up :)
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« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2007, 10:55:31 pm »
Onoz he is gonna kiss meh! RUN!