Score System

[Nux]

I've searched but couldn't find anything about this.

The current scoreboard shows Kills/Time/Ping in the base game. Have there ever been plans to include deaths in this?

Also, has it been suggested that the board shows not kills (which is dependant only on getting the last hit in) but on damage dealt (together with a damage received)? The only real trouble with making such a system, I can imagine, is with the fact that- with varying maximum health points; modes of attack; point rewards -it could be hard to compare human scores with alien scores.

If you're worried about the scoreboard becoming cluttered with facts and figures, why not have the display user-definable?

Including such statistics I think would give a more accurate account of how well each player is doing.

[HamStar]

I thinkit should show feeds instead of kills, to prevent killwhoring :/ Although a side effect of that would be camping to reduce the amount of feeds.

[Nux]

I don't think we should abolish the positive side of the score. Also, the only difference I can see between kill-whoring and simply scoring high, is that with kill-whoring you purposefully don't end the game so you can get more kills. This shouldn't be a problem in that case as they are only giving you more time to gain advantage. If you just don't like the fact that they are scoring well, then you might want to blame his skill or your teams lack of it.

Another possible effect might be that with the damage-based score system people will be less inclined to frantically throw themselves at dying enemies, trying to get the kill before one of their teammates do. It won't stop this entirely though, as they would still need the enemy to be dead to get the damage-score (plus a dead goon will come back as a dretch if it's poor enough).

[Lava Croft]

Do the scores even matter? I mean, isn't the goal of the game to kill the opposing team instead of getting the highest score? I would rather opt for removing all references to a 'score', so that people can focus on the goal of Tremulous, instead of the goal of Quake.

[temple]

Do the scores even matter? I mean, isn't the goal of the game to kill the opposing team instead of getting the highest score? I would rather opt for removing all references to a 'score', so that people can focus on the goal of Tremulous, instead of the goal of Quake.

I agree

[PIE]

Do the scores even matter? I mean, isn't the goal of the game to kill the opposing team instead of getting the highest score? I would rather opt for removing all references to a 'score', so that people can focus on the goal of Tremulous, instead of the goal of Quake.

Couldn't be said better. I can have an awesome game, then get stuck as dretch when the humans attack the base and get killed a bunch of times trying to fight them off. I'm going to try to save the base unless its hopeless and a granger needs cover. Same goes for humans, or when you're at a lower stage and your enemies are s3. Sometimes its worth the trade off to get killed a few more times fighting off a tyrant or chasing an almost dead alien for the kill and credits. If people were afraid to die now and again it would ultimately hurt the game. Feeding sucks when it pushes your enemies to another stage, but its part of the game.. is it worth the feed to achieve this goal you just have to be smart about it and scoring it would make people paranoid.
I'd rather have 2 teams of feeders than a campfest anyday.

[Rabbitt]

Do the scores even matter? I mean, isn't the goal of the game to kill the opposing team instead of getting the highest score? I would rather opt for removing all references to a 'score', so that people can focus on the goal of Tremulous, instead of the goal of Quake.

Yea same thoughts.

Honestly just drop the whole scoreboard cause once you take away kill counts who needs ping and total time ?
Come to think of it who needs that anyway except admins to see 999's

[kevlarman]

Do the scores even matter? I mean, isn't the goal of the game to kill the opposing team instead of getting the highest score? I would rather opt for removing all references to a 'score', so that people can focus on the goal of Tremulous, instead of the goal of Quake.

Yea same thoughts.

Honestly just drop the whole scoreboard cause once you take away kill counts who needs ping and total time ?
Come to think of it who needs that anyway except admins to see 999's

the scoreboard is still useful for determining how many kills are left to the next stage for both teams.

[Lava Croft]

Just to clarify, the scoreboard should not go.
It is a list that shows who is connected, what their playing times, pings and classes are, and most importantly, like kevlarman already pointed out, you need to to check how many kill there are left for stage advancement. By this I don't mean you add up the killcounts, but the line that says 'XX kills left'. The killcounts can be removed, certainly because as kevlarman pointed out, you can use it to see how many kills the opposing team has left until stage advancement, something your enemies should not be able to see.

[Rabbitt]

Yes but couldnt we just implement a stage counter to the HUD like some HUD's already have for the opposing teams stage ?

[mooseberry]

Guys, guys think about what you are doing! Okay, so maybe some of you think it a bit worthless but still! This is an inspirational breakthrough in meaningful technology! To some people this is very very very important piece of the game! And think about its own feelings also! Don't don't be mean to the scoreboard!!!


P.S. Sorry I am writing this late and am feeling a bit silly.  :eek:  :roll:

[Plague]

If you're inquisitive about how well your performing, play on server's with Lakitu's newest QVM release with /mystats.

While it currently only shows your own stats, and for the duration of one round, it's only a matter of time before someone hacks it to allow you to view other player's as well.

[tuple]

Do the scores even matter? I mean, isn't the goal of the game to kill the opposing team instead of getting the highest score? I would rather opt for removing all references to a 'score', so that people can focus on the goal of Tremulous, instead of the goal of Quake.

+1

So many people worry about the details.  Noone worries about the details when you get results

Maybe at the end of the game, instead of the scoreboard it should just say YOU WIN or YOU LOSE or BOTH TEAMS SUCK

Please refer to member David's signature.

[Nux]

Do the scores even matter? I mean, isn't the goal of the game to kill the opposing team instead of getting the highest score? I would rather opt for removing all references to a 'score', so that people can focus on the goal of Tremulous, instead of the goal of Quake.

Sorry for the late reply. Thank you for mentioning this.

Not caring about kill-scores is one thing. Suggesting that they shouldn't even be there is another. If you decide that no one should be able to see such scores, this gives the impression that you either don't feel as though anyone finds them useful or that you don't like the effect it has on people.

People do find them useful. For one, they give the team a better idea of how well each player/the whole team is doing and assign roles accordingly (e.g. You might want a low scoring individual to hold off on the attacks as he's not having a good tremulous day). Also, scoring well is a good confidence booster and can mean doing well for longer still.

Also, in public games, the team is likely to have new players on both sides or experienced players mostly on one side. This generally makes teamplay less prominent a feature in public games. Trying to get your team organised or to simply do anything at all can be a difficulty and an annoyance. This is why in public games, it's only fair that the individual has his score to provide attainment in a game where the random feeders will most likely lose the game no matter what he does. In clanwars though, I'm happy to build and not get many kills because I can trust my teammates to do well.

The effect the score has on people is a good thing in my opinion. Though you are part of a team with a teamgoal, you want to have some idea of how much you are doing for that team. No matter how selfless you might think you are, it is all for the benefit of the self.

My personal enjoyment in the game is derived from the killing of lots of enemies (preferably skilled), the helping of lots of friends (preferably grateful) and the overall success (preferably long strived for). I can see that it's fun to jump on the selfless train and pretend you see no point in the kill-scores, but if you had a mighty kill-score I think you'd be happy to have it.

Competitiveness is a huge part of online gaming. Without it, we'd have far less reason to improve.

EDIT: If someone could add the option "There is too much already" to the poll and reset it, I'd be grateful. I wasn't anticipating that one.

[Lava Croft]

Maybe instead of just a killcount, show your kills minus your deaths?

Again, I would like to point out that the opposing team should not be able to see how many kills you have left for stage advancement.

[Survivor]

The most important facts people are missing are the following.

Not all important jobs provide score in the screen, builders don't get it, structure and basekillers don't get it. The killpoint goes to the person that lethally hit the opponent. Someone can be smashing tyrants and goons left and right with his psaw doing 300 damage before they are away and the chainner or even rifleman can get the kill for a measly expenditure of risk and ammo. A marauder can be having an excellent duel with a pulser and a goon drops in and hits off the last 20 hp.
Current Killcount != an accurate way of keeping score.
The correct way of keeping score is watching your teammates play. Not relying on something which can only be caught in numbers when it's described in a 4 page essay per match per player.

[Nux]

Maybe instead of just a killcount, show your kills minus your deaths?

Again, I would like to point out that the opposing team should not be able to see how many kills you have left for stage advancement.

So you're proposing the kills-minus-deaths system as a way of keeping the other team from knowing how close they are to the next stage? If so, that's quite a clever solution. I wonder though, if there are too many people who want that information for such a change to be made.

At this point I'll note that the current system gives your score in terms of the kills you have provided your team with. Killing a member of your team (including yourself) is seen as taking a kill away from your team and so deducts from both your individual score and your team score. The proposed system will incorperate information about kills the other team has gained because of you. Whether this is a good thing or not you can decide.

The most important facts people are missing are the following.

Not all important jobs provide score in the screen, builders don't get it, structure and basekillers don't get it. The killpoint goes to the person that lethally hit the opponent. Someone can be smashing tyrants and goons left and right with his psaw doing 300 damage before they are away and the chainner or even rifleman can get the kill for a measly expenditure of risk and ammo. A marauder can be having an excellent duel with a pulser and a goon drops in and hits off the last 20 hp.
Current Killcount != an accurate way of keeping score.
The correct way of keeping score is watching your teammates play. Not relying on something which can only be caught in numbers when it's described in a 4 page essay per match per player.

Yes, at the moment alot of key tasks aren't being rewarded. So long as the kill-score is intended to be a reward system, it should give more of this kind of information so as to be more accurate.

Please bear in mind that this is not about for what the kill-score was originally intended, but for suggestions on what you want it to be. It may very well have once just been a way of making sense of the overall teams score as a sum of each of the players kills. This doesn't mean it can't be made into a reward system. Furthermore, if enough people want it, I think it should become one.

[Paradox]

Deaths have been shown on the scoreboard in a number of mods, and with out client side patches, you can use /mystats from lakitu to see your deaths and feeds.

[Nux]

Deaths have been shown on the scoreboard in a number of mods, and with out client side patches, you can use /mystats from lakitu to see your deaths and feeds.

..but not anyone elses. I'll clarify that I'm talking about the introduction of score-systems to the base game.

[PIE]

Deaths have been shown on the scoreboard in a number of mods, and with out client side patches, you can use /mystats from lakitu to see your deaths and feeds.

..but not anyone elses. I'll clarify that I'm talking about the introduction of score-systems to the base game.

The only valid option is for you to only see your OWN deaths. Otherwise you open your door to paranoia and discrimination.  If you want to work on your own game then thats all you need to know.

[player1]

Did somebody say Rewards?

Seriously, rewarding the other tasks besides killing enemies has long been an idea I've been mulling around in me wee brain.

I agree with Survivor, Lava and others who have said that it's not so much about the killcount, but knowing you've helped your team to win (or not).

I also think that maybe the chat/message/alert approach would work best. I can see why there is no announcement as structures are destroyed (let players find out for themselves that there are no spawns left), but it would be cool to see who destroyed what (after all, you can see who is building what). e.g. - "PlayerOne sawed an egg." I don't see that happening, though, for the reason stated above (that's what teamchat is for).

Also, players are rewarded by the game already for doing those things which help their team.

For killing enemies: killcount, evos/creds, contributes to stage advance
For building: team survives longer, may even have a chance to win, time evos/creds for staying alive (while build-camping)
For healing/repairing: see above
For destroying enemy structures: reduced enemy resources, reduced enemy spawn rate (they have to respawn using less spawnpoints), accelerated win, evos/creds for destroying really important ones (OM/reac, spawns)

Even when I get a low killcount, as long as I basi'd the armoury or dretched a bsuit, I'm still grinning.

One possible suggestion. A second screen, called Game Summary, which comes up after 15 seconds of the normal scoreboard (at end of game). Game ends, "_______s Win", normal scoreboard pops up, and then another, different Game Summary scoreboard pops up which shows other stats, like Deaths, Feed Ratio, # of Enemy Structures Destroyed (probably not enough room for itemization), # of Structures Built, Time Spent Repairing/Healing, OM/Reac Damage Dealt, Egg/Node Damage Dealt, and etc. Everything would have to be wicked abbreviated, thusly:
Deaths/Ratio/Structs/Builds/Assists/Main Dmg/Spawn Dmg

All players would be listed (both teams in one big list), in descending order, with the players who destroyed the most enemy structures at the top of the list.

Not entirely satisfying to everyone, but then nothing ever really is. Feed Ratio would be Deaths by Enemy divided by Kills of Enemy. The higher the number, the more you were feeding (whether or not that is of importance to you is a personal matter). I also agree with PIE that Deaths and Feed Ratio become something to argue and bicker over, so maybe just who built, who baseraped and who repaired and healed would be fine. Of course, people who defended without getting many kills or destroying enemy structures might feel left out.