Author Topic: Public Maptest - "Beyond Derelict" - BETA 3 (Read 17207 times)

[db@]Megabite · « **on:** May 10, 2006, 11:39:20 am »

Hey there,

finally my Gloom1b-Conversion "Beyond Derelict" is ready for a public Maptest!
The mapfile is called "derelictb-beta01" and it really IS BETA. The basic layout is done, I hope it works out well gameplay-wise. That is what is intended by betatesting the map: gameplay!

More visuals, effects, eye-candy, unblandness, lighting, sound, performance, etc. will be addressed later!

Here is the readme:

Quote

May 10th, 2006 [db@]Megabite
================================================================
Title : Beyond Derelict (Beta 01)

Filename : derelictb-beta01.pk3

Author : Danny "Megabite" Marcus

Email Address : megabite@tremulous.de

Web Site(s) : www.online-spielen.de
www.blackheartware.com
www.megavoid.de

Description : Map for the open source game
Tremulous, based on the Q2-mod
Gloom-map "gloom1b" / Derelict

Credits to : ID-Software for Quake III Arena,
darklegion for Tremulous,
qeradiant.com and gamedesign.net for
inspiration and solutions.
And last but not least my testers:
Mr.H@nky, sharky, FireFox and bishop
from the db@ clan!

================================================================

* BETA BUILD *

This is a beta release of this map. It is WORK IN PROGRESS!
There are some bugs in it, just the basic layouting is done
by now!
More details (mostly ceiling decoration, effects, sounds,
other detail crap) will be added in the next weeks. Some
shaders will be added, others changed (the force field in
human base first .

This beta is for gameplay testing, not about visuals!
Feel free to drop me a line with your thoughts to
megabite@tremulous.de!

* Installation *

Copy this *.pk3 file to your base folder, start a game, drop
to the console and type "/map derelictb-beta01" (don`t use the "").

* Construction *

Base : Conversion of a Gloom map

Editor(s) used : GTKRadiant

Known Bugs : Some, too lazy to type...

Build Time : 4 weeks by now

* Copyright / Permissions *

You may distribute these files freely as long as this text file
is included and no file and/or filename is changed.
You may use any textures and shaders included in your own projects
as long as you mention me somewhere in your credits...

* Bug Reports / Suggestions *

Please send them to: megabite@tremulous.de

================================================================

The map can be downloaded here: http://www.tremulous.info/index.php?module=download&action=show&id=1

Please post any comments on gameplay on derelictb in this topic. Happy testing!

Cheers, Danny

P.S.: Please do not move this post to the new mapping forums as it is intended for a broader audience! Thanks!
P.P.S.: Admins, feel free to upload to your server and putting it in the mapcycle!

Survivor · « **Reply #1 on:** May 10, 2006, 12:29:48 pm »

I get a 'requested feature was ommitted at compile time' error with devmap, map and your server.

Code: [Select]

----------------------
Sound intialization successful.
--------------------------------
Sound memory manager started
Loading vm file vm/ui.qvm...
...which has vmMagic VM_MAGIC_VER2
Loading 1075 jump table targets
VM file ui compiled to 786313 bytes of code
ui loaded in 4596672 bytes on the hunk
UI menu load time = 770 milli seconds
UI menu load time = 47 milli seconds
UI menu load time = 47 milli seconds
--- Common Initialization Complete ---
Winsock Initialized
Opening IP socket: localhost:30720
Hostname: cm1027945-a
IP: 213.51.122.151
Working directory: D:\Games\Tremulous
Proceeding with delayed mouse init
Initializing DirectInput...
DirectInput initialized.
----- CL_Shutdown -----
RE_Shutdown( 1 )
Shutting down OpenGL subsystem
...wglMakeCurrent( NULL, NULL ): success
...deleting GL context: success
...releasing DC: success
...destroying window
...resetting display
...shutting down QGL
...unloading OpenGL DLL
-----------------------
Requested feature was omitted at compile time

Neo · « **Reply #2 on:** May 10, 2006, 12:44:19 pm »

Same here

Also get it when downloading the file from the server through trem.

[db@]Megabite · « **Reply #3 on:** May 10, 2006, 02:14:45 pm »

I was able to reproduce the error... seems the file was damaged sending it from home to work. It worked at home this morning...

I will have a closer look at it ASAP!

Cheers, Danny

Neo · « **Reply #4 on:** May 10, 2006, 02:23:28 pm »

Cool, can't wait to give it a spin

[db@]Megabite · « **Reply #5 on:** May 10, 2006, 03:07:07 pm »

Got it, somehow the new levelshot (startscreen) fu'ed it up... :evil:

The fixed version has been uploaded to blackheartware.com already, restarting the testserver any minute!

Cheers, Danny

Edit: Server up and working... if you downloaded the derelictb-beta01.pk3 previously: please delete the file in you tremulous/base folder and download the fixed version!

Survivor · « **Reply #6 on:** May 10, 2006, 03:30:45 pm »

Checked the map, the only two base locations with any merit are the starting positions. Hallways so cramped that they are deathtraps for just about every alien. Maybe widen some hallways and expand with some more rooms. Also the number of routes from and to a base are 2 for each and they just about lead directly to the other base. Sorry to sound so harsh but this map is very in favour of the humans.

chompers · « **Reply #7 on:** May 10, 2006, 05:17:42 pm »

Gotta agree with what Survivor has said. It looks great already, but those long narrow corridors which make up most of the map will mean there is no chance of dodging and humans win this map every time. If it's possible to make the corridors wider, taller and shorter it would improve gameplay by allowing dodging and basebuilding on the whole map rather than just in the 3 main rooms.

[db@]Megabite · « **Reply #8 on:** May 10, 2006, 05:34:58 pm »

I just played a few rounds with a few people and I agree with your thoughts. That is the problem with map conversions... stay too close to the original and it will not work out.

Currently the map clearly favors humans, right. It is just a bit too small... I don't think that the main corridors will be widened, but there will be some 2 more rooms on the human-base-vent route (cutting into the corridors) and I am thinking of a vent entrance directly in the upper part of the human base and some more blocking stuff up on the grate as it is far to easy to defend atm, almost as bad as the "elevator room"...
Maybe I will add another corridor / room combination as a forth entrance to the big hallway, connecting to the small room near the human base.

Just post your thoughts about my fantasies...

Besides these balancing issues the feedback was quite positive by now, that keeps up mapper-motivation for working fast...

Cheers, Danny

P.S.: I don't take any constructive criticism as "harsh". I want this map to be balanced and liked by the players. To reach that goal I have to listen, so shout...

Vector_Matt · « **Reply #9 on:** May 10, 2006, 07:59:17 pm »

I can't test it online, my ping was 127, and that was too high for it. please cosider raising the max ping limit, at least for testing.

[db@]Megabite · « **Reply #10 on:** May 10, 2006, 08:04:46 pm »

Just thought about that while revising my server.cfg (sv_pure was set to 0 from previous testing)...

Just restarted the server half an hour ago with sv_maxping 180, so even "fast" american connections should work...

Cheers, Danny

UnplayedNamer · « **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2006, 08:35:22 pm »

One good thing for aliens is that you can spiral dizzyingly effectively as a wallwalking alien towards a human that has a non-area effect weapon down the corridors, but as has been said above larger aliens have a hard time - banging me head constantly as a mara or dragoon and corridors mean that you're an easy target.

The human base is also camptastic - you have a tyrant proof upper area and long narrow corridors leading up to it - sticking the reactor 'up top' means you can still power the defences downstairs as well.

I do like the look and the views are good (like the 'room with a view' especially, though functionally, its pretty useless - too near home to be a forward base and too small to relocate to), but the map makes Uncreation look like a alien-friendly zone.

Teiman · « **Reply #12 on:** May 10, 2006, 10:57:38 pm »

The map is pretty. The design interesting... theres even a location beyond a door where you can placed acid launchers on 45degrees. nice.
Gameplay is broken because human base is too easy, and most areas lack "bugs hidden locations". The main room looks almost empty. A few crates here and there can help... Everybody love crates!, well except tyrans...
You can also add a deep hole somewhere, because the map is very 2D actually and this is a 3D game. A hole or whatever vertical that add to gameplay or not.

[db@]Megabite · « **Reply #13 on:** May 10, 2006, 11:16:40 pm »

I already thought about some obstacles in the main hallway, I am almost sure there will be some in the future... Oh and I cannot serve big holes, but maybe you want to take a look up in that computer room next to the alien base...

There are many good points in all your comments. Thanks so far, guys! I am already working on some more ways here and there and some obstacles in that human base...

I guess the base will be about 30% bigger in the final version, have balanced gameplay (thanks to you all) and more than just red pipes for decoration!

Cheers, Danny

[HUN]N.M.I. · « **Reply #14 on:** May 11, 2006, 05:04:40 pm »

Yes, the left turret is placed on a lamp...
I don't think that Tyrants can climb ladders. So, as what the others have said, Humans have a huge advantage, but also their main base is very hard to damage (altought it can be sniped by Adv. Dragoons).
Note that corridors are somewhat narrow and people can get stuck in there real easily. (that's my opinion, I know)

Mirsha · « **Reply #15 on:** May 11, 2006, 06:07:43 pm »

I found a bug.

If you are a granger, I forgot to test with other classes, when walking through the vents if your view is off centre towards the side of the tunnels then you get stuck. Judging from the locations you are getting stuck on the tiny light fittings on the roof of the vents.

Without having played a competative game my initial judgement is very much this is a human biased map. The vents are pretty much useless since any alien will get killed in them and they will get camped heavily leading to feeding. The alien base feels horribly cramped, I imagine it'll be a pain to navigate once a bunch of acid goes down and with a bunch of players getting out will be chaos. The alien base also looks perfectly setup for for grenades and rushing and features what I consider a very basic error in designing a map for Tremulous, making sure that the OM can be shot from a doorway.

The right hand corridor from the human base from the big room is also pretty terrible for wall walking. There are a few bits you can't go over so you get stuck and it's very easy to get turned around which will just turn into a mulching pit for aliens.

This map also seems to lack good hiding spots for aliens making it hard for them to setup ambushes. The few places on the map for doing it are quite obvious and not well hidden, or escapable from, so they aren't terrible usefull.

As for the human base, I think the picture above pretty much sums it up as it took me a full second to come to the same conclusion the above poster. That base isn't going to be assaultable by anything other than adv dragoons and with the tight base offering nowhere to snipe safely and the cramped corridors behind it for the aliens it's going to be a constant flurry of blocking.

The good news is apart from these design issues the map runs silky smooth on my GeForce 2!

I'll try sicing some Goons on it tonight and see if we can come to some conclusion with actual games behind this theoretical reasoning.

[HUN]N.M.I. · « **Reply #16 on:** May 11, 2006, 08:46:05 pm »

Dylan says: 'Looky up there. It's a glitchy door.'

C'mon! See it?

WoodenJesus · « **Reply #17 on:** May 11, 2006, 09:09:10 pm »

I found place in alien base where you can build invisible acid tubes

Screenshots:

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6

Neo · « **Reply #18 on:** May 11, 2006, 09:15:47 pm »

Any idea whether it might be worth testing out switching the bases around?

The extra space would give the aliens a bit more room and humans don't need all that space.

AzaToth · « **Reply #19 on:** May 11, 2006, 09:24:46 pm »

I think the "survival"-room is a bit to much "survival"

I mean, if humans is able to build a minor base there, then I think one builder can hold out indef.

[db@]Megabite · « **Reply #20 on:** May 11, 2006, 09:31:24 pm »

Thanks for the feedback guys!

The door is already fixed in the upcoming version.
I will make all pipes, handles and vents non-buildable as they should be...

Cheers, Danny

SLAVE|Mietz · « **Reply #21 on:** May 12, 2006, 07:53:51 pm »

i really like the lightning. its so...gloomy ^^

[db@]Megabite · « **Reply #22 on:** May 22, 2006, 04:49:53 pm »

Okay guys, quite an Update on "Beyond Derelict"! Beta02 has been released and is already running on our testserver!

You can download the file here: http://blackheartware.com/cstrike/trem/derelictb-beta02.pk3 and put it to your tremulous/base folder. Web-download is recommended as autodownload ingame will take a while now...

But as before you may just connect to our public testing server and autodownload it. Keep care to set /cl_allowdownload 1 in console before connecting:

Quote

Name: #db@ Derelict (Pub Test)
Address: 213.239.197.132:30722
Location: Hetzner Datacenter, Nuernberg, Germany

FreeSlots: 10
PrivateSlots: 4

Voting: not allowed

New Stuff:

- Fixed a lot of visual stuff
- Started getting texture-independent, hence the bigger download
- Fixed a lot of edges, player-clipped a lot of stuff to avoid getting stuck in corridors and vents
- Fixed the pipes blocking the ladder-vent-entrance
- Fixed stuff being buildable on railings
- Fixed stuff being buildable in vents and other unwanted locations
- Lots of Performance tweaks
- Added a new, broad corridor and a new room. They are connected to the main hall and the small "window-room" to add another roundabout-route and building locations
- Added an anteroom (shortening one way in) and some cover to the human base
- Added some crates to platform in human base to obstruct excessive building up there

Notes:

- New room and corridor are quite dark, just to test it out. They will probably be lightened up a bit in the future.
- Cover will be added to the main hall in a later beta release
- The layout is not final with this release. I plan to build another room at the "fake door" and provide at least 3 more exits to the vents, doubling vent size... some parts will be more interesting than the blank vents used by now, though.
- Yes, I will add shaders / particles / other pipe textures in the future!
- Balance should be better for aliens now, though I guess humans will still have an advantage... I will further tweak that as the map grows...

Have fun testing it! Constructive criticism is appreciated, as always!

Danny

Vector_Matt · « **Reply #23 on:** May 22, 2006, 05:20:23 pm »

180 ping = too high? Well another day of not testing it for me. :-?

[db@]Megabite · « **Reply #24 on:** May 22, 2006, 05:35:08 pm »

Just raised sv_maxping to 220, just try again...

Danny

Survivor · « **Reply #25 on:** May 22, 2006, 06:04:00 pm »

http://blackheartware.com/cstrike/trem/derelictb-beta02.pk3

You forgot to change 1 to 2

[db@]Megabite · « **Reply #26 on:** May 22, 2006, 06:08:28 pm »

Fixed it, thanks!

Danny

P.S.: Survivor just found a HOM-glitch in the T-section in front of the alien base. No need to report it, it will be fixed, soon!

[db@]Megabite · « **Reply #27 on:** May 23, 2006, 05:25:07 pm »

Okay, that HOM-glitch has been fixed in my internal build. Seems that finally some infamous magic brush decided to move in. Got it trapped and killed soon enough, though!

I started adding a new vent/service-shaft way directly connecting the vent-sideway to the new beta02 sideway/room.

As I am getting married in two weeks and a lot of family stuff on the horizon, beta03 will be scheduled no sooner than end of june / early july.

If beta03 works out well gameplay-wise it will be the last beta build. I will then start cleaning it up, adding more textures, shaders, particlesystems and minor geometry tweaks... just to raise r_speeds a bit, lower your framerate and make it nicer to look at...

But for now, please feel free to comment on the gameplay of beta02, that mapper needs some feedback!

Danny

hodge · « **Reply #28 on:** May 26, 2006, 05:52:12 pm »

Its awesome, I hope to see that it goes out of beta soon.

Neo · « **Reply #29 on:** May 27, 2006, 03:21:35 pm »

You probably hear this from your clan all the time, but you da man Mega

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Author Topic: Public Maptest - "Beyond Derelict" - BETA 3 (Read 17207 times)