2 Armories are good during SD?

[The Crazie Coward]

This poll is to provide information to c-kit users and their building plans. We are taking an average here, so its most likely offical.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

uhh...2-3 secs walking... wich way...? :-)))

where could you exactly imagine this on... ATCS, UTCS, and so on...? at most bases 2-3 secs away is out of defendable reach. could work maybe at tremor but i rly doubt.

if you still have money get armored and buy energy weapons, if not, protect the arm with your own body from sniping.
of course if your team is doing cool and you owned the enemy, make a 2nd armory near THEIR base.

+the lame tactic ofc, to block the way with a bonus armory while others are rebuilding turrets <.<

[jr2]

A blocker arm is about the only way to avoid massive pwnage every 45 seconds on ATCS.  If the rants can make it to your rets, you're a goner.  Your only hope is either a stalemate, or, if you have enough uber-1337 (cheating?) players on your side, you might be able to nuke their spawns.  Not very darn likely.  A well maintained blocker arm with a medi serves as a platform where you can hold back the tide of Rants swarming your base.  Now, the only problem is the Adv Goons, you need a few MD guys for them.  And it still doesn't solve the problem of getting to the alien base.

[Steely Ann]

Or you can cut down on the suck, actually kill the would-be assaulters and keep doing so until you sufficiently drain them of evo points.  Then it all goes downhill, in a good way.

[Shadow-Majestic]

i think using an ammo to block is useless.. yes it can take an extra impact from a rant or sniping goon
but .. why not use a turret that also does a bit of damage they cant  get passed it untill it blows up anyways.. plus blowing up deals bonus damage

[Metsjeesus]

i think using an ammo to block is useless.. yes it can take an extra impact from a rant or sniping goon
but .. why not use a turret that also does a bit of damage they cant  get passed it untill it blows up anyways.. plus blowing up deals bonus damage

Point is, turret will blow even if someone repairs it while goon is sniping it. Turret has 190 hp, goon snipes 110 damage per sec. And tyr destroys it, while having about 50 damage from turret. So one way or another, turret is bad blocking device.  Armory has 280 hp. If goons throws all barbs on it, total damage is 330 on 2 secs. You must heal atleast 50 damage to survive third blow. Its like 50:50 chance, sometimes you success, sometimes you not.  Big disadvatage on arms is, they are to big, humans shoot at him,its hard to go over it and its big target to snipe. So, in some situatsions, its better to use telenode. Advantages are, 310 hp(if you repair, goon cant destroy it with 3 barbs), its harder to snipe, you have faster respawns -> more defending humans.  Disadvantages, destroyer gets 1 evo, There are not many places where you can put it as a blocker.

Mostly, it there are alot players, arm or tele as blocker works. If less, then use better turrets on great numbers.

[tuple]

The best way to delay the death of your base is to take out the oppositions base.  I've seen an arm be used somewhat effectively as a blocking device, but as with all other buildings, it goes down at sd.  If you want to protect your base in SD, I wouldn't rely on one blocking structure.  Also, blocking structures block your team, and thats just rude

[Shadow-Majestic]

best is to just place a turret just outside base... tyrants will always go for that turret.. destroy it and charge back... savign allot of damage to the turrets in your base, plus if you have a decent team the rant often dies just because he destroys a distractor turrret
if your beeing attacked its always good to have a builder.. why not use 8 BP's to save the rest
without that turret rants mostly go for your ammo if they can and else they try to destroy multiple turrets (with blowing up damaging everything around them)
suits are much more effective in blocking a rant just by trying to stick your chaingun as far as possible up his ass

[Samurai.mac]

Contrary to popular belief, I've found forward bases can be quite effective for humans (especially on servers with extra build points!) as long as you can put your main base in a well defended position. On Niveus (or is it Nexus? I can never remember which is which) putting a repeater, armoury, medistation and possibly a turret (although not strictly necessary) under the stairs near the window room, should the alien decide to move there (which they often do) makes a good resupply station for heavy weapons to quickly do some damage to a base.

[Shadow-Majestic]

Contrary to popular belief, I've found forward bases can be quite effective for humans (especially on servers with extra build points!) as long as you can put your main base in a well defended position. On Niveus (or is it Nexus? I can never remember which is which) putting a repeater, armoury, medistation and possibly a turret (although not strictly necessary) under the stairs near the window room, should the alien decide to move there (which they often do) makes a good resupply station for heavy weapons to quickly do some damage to a base.

or build the ammo just outside the window room if aliens are innit, face the door.. let a team mate open it
and use your mass basenader script wich some aiming BOOM bye bye alien base

[The Crazie Coward]

I mostly play SST Tremulous sever which has 260bps(alot) and just feel the stupidity of seeing others make 2 arms....(which both are totaly destroyed 30 seconds after the first arm), it seems kinda dumb. They always say....1 main armory, 1 backup armory......which is like a stone's throw away from each other.
When they both goes boom boom in the end, i told them 2 arms stinks but as usual.....they say if we hadn't have the backup arm we woulda die much EARILER....SUCH CRAP!

[jr2]

I don't make it for a backup arm... I just make it to put a dent in the Rants' ATCS swing in - swipe-swipe-swipe - run like a chicken routine... which it does, as long as someone's repairing it, and there are a few people to guard it.

[daenyth]

The ONLY map where a blocking arm is good is on ATCS, placed on the ramp near H base. And even with that, it has to be the sdmode where you can rebuild arms. It prevetns tyrant from camping around the corner, which is probably the most important thing there.

[Bunneh]

Double armories are only effective if they're placed far apart and in hard-to-reach places. There's no point in putting two armories on either side of the reactor; you need them far apart.

As a rule of thumb, if a dragoon can pounce from one armory to the other without hitting any obstacles, they need to be a) further apart, or b) protected by some other buildable or mapmade structure.

Visually:

................|......|
................|......|
................|A....|
__________|......|
A..............B......|
........................|
_______________|

Where
_ and |= Walls
A= Ideal armory location
B= Bad armory location

From this diagram, you can see that one armory at either A point and one armory at B point makes them both easily killed. However, if you place both armories in each of the A points, you have at least some protection because of the walls between them.

[jr2]

The ONLY map where a blocking arm is good is on ATCS, placed on the ramp near H base. And even with that, it has to be the sdmode where you can rebuild arms. It prevetns tyrant from camping around the corner, which is probably the most important thing there.

...Exactly what I was doing.    Except one time it wasn't SD mode where you could rebuild arms... it delayed the inevitable for about 5 extra minutes, maybe.

[daenyth]

The ONLY map where a blocking arm is good is on ATCS, placed on the ramp near H base. And even with that, it has to be the sdmode where you can rebuild arms. It prevetns tyrant from camping around the corner, which is probably the most important thing there.

...Exactly what I was doing.    Except one time it wasn't SD mode where you could rebuild arms... it delayed the inevitable for about 5 extra minutes, maybe.

It's still good, although it loses 70% of its usefulness. A good builder should be able to judge by the situation at hand though.

[Lava Croft]

Building 2 Armories is not only stupid, is is contraproductive. It takes up too much space, it takes up too much build points and does too little for that price. While I can (sometimes) see the need for 2 Medistats, 2 Armories is just a no.

If the only way you can avoid massive pwnage every 45 seconds on ATCS is by building a blocking Armory, you should review your basebuilding techniques.

[_Equilibrium_]

i don't mind a blocking arm on atcs as long as your team has a dedicated builder and a few defenders. you can have less defenders if you have the blocking arm on atcs. on every other map, 1 arm should be the only choice though. this is for a default bp server btw.

[kevlarman]

The ONLY map where a blocking arm is good is on ATCS, placed on the ramp near H base. And even with that, it has to be the sdmode where you can rebuild arms. It prevetns tyrant from camping around the corner, which is probably the most important thing there.

actually it's pretty useless on atcs, since most base layouts that are resistant to tyrants leave the reactor exposed to snipers (2 +goons can put the 8 1/2 barbs into the reactor just as the first of the 2 die). you need either much more space (nexus, where moving close enough for a clear shot is suicide) or much less space (tremor, where there is no clear shot) to abuse it, and either way choke points are required. it really is lame though, since in many circumstances it can extend the game indefinitely (especially if solilo is holding the ckit).

[+ OPTIMUS +]

blocking arm is blocking the way of shooting... plus on atcs falling down and not going at the ramp can give you funny surprises by lurking cheap aliens.
at ffa games they are destroyed by teammates sooner than aliens could realise that it exists.
not to mention the debate (that can fruit typekills) and 'noobbuilder' spammings.

-1.

[ChaosSquirrel]

Two armories can save the game, especially on tight maps. On transit, two armories may be overkill, but on small maps... a pulse rifle can save the game for the humans, and so can battlesuits.

[Despairation]

Please don't necro threads like that. Check the late post date.

[Her3tic]

It takes too much Bp...

Tough it's a bit usefull in some case, but Bad idea for most

[ChaosSquirrel]

This thread should not be dead. Quite simply, it is quite important. It is a strategy I personally could see as a good end-game strategy.

[Lava Croft]

2 Armories is not only retarded, it's contraproductive, since it takes 10bp you need elsewhere. There is absolutely no excuse for building 2 Armories at any given time.

[Rocinante]

But what about a maze of armories on unlimited build point servers?

Oh yeah, that's not a real game of Tremulous...

[danmal]

2 Armories is not only retarded, it's contraproductive, since it takes 10bp you need elsewhere. There is absolutely no excuse for building 2 Armories at any given time.

The only exception is if you're planning on moving the arm. It's usually better to be down a ret then to be without an arm.

[Her3tic]

Build Before deconning...
Its very awfull when someone decon Arm then take time to rebuild it perfectly frame by frame when you got no ammo and a base to protect.

[Lava Croft]

2 Armories is not only retarded, it's contraproductive, since it takes 10bp you need elsewhere. There is absolutely no excuse for building 2 Armories at any given time.

The only exception is if you're planning on moving the arm. It's usually better to be down a ret then to be without an arm.

For me, that doesn't constitue building 2 Armories, that's just moving the Armory. But yes, technically speaking you are correct.

[Her3tic]

On ATCS when someone build a second armory to stop rant, Yes it stop them a while, but when they'll get in, u got less defense than usual so... It Fails...