Harvesting bodies

[BabyAlien]

I'm talking about the question I'm sure everyone has wondered at least for a brief second:

"I just used up all my salary for a pulse rifle and got trampled by a Tyrant two steps from the armory.  Why can't I pick it UP from the $x!!&* GROUND?"

Likewise for the aliens.

So my suggestion in brief is that it might be a valuable addition to allow a human to raid a dead body for weapons and an alien to feed off of a dead body for evolve points.

I think this would add realism and also perhaps draw fighting out into the hallways and such a bit more as people get out there to try and get their stuff back.  You might see something novel like a 'naked' human run out to the alien base and pick up a Lucy outside the door and lay waste to things.  

Some considerations:

1- This might help noobs a lot.  This game is NOT noob friendly.  It's very hard to pick up IMO and noobs on a team really detrimental making it a hostile environment for noobs.  It is extremely frustrating because as a noob you are either being creamed over and over as a low-level or hiding waiting for free points.  At least this way you could be supporting your 'mates and if one of them falls you could pick up their weapon and fight on as best you can.

2- It would have to take some time to gather up the weapons or feed from the body.  This would mean a human couldn't run into an alien base littered with bodies, snatch up a weapon and start shooting.  You are vulnerable while you are 'harvesting'.

3- Ammo would get depleted and evolve points would be reduced from harvesting.  A human might find an empty Lucy out there and have to run back to base to recharge, making it risky business.  An alien wouldn't get to wait and use the points later.  Based on what they harvest, they evolve, and 'goons and above are too big to harvest.

Human scenario:
This should be pretty obvious.  You run out of the base and down one corridor you see a dead comrade.  Something must have killed it, so you stop and listen.  All is quiet.  You peek around corners looking to see if the coast is clear.  You notice some movement around one corner and open up with your rifle.  A dretch falls dead to the ground.  Ugly little critter.  With that you bend down and search the body as quickly as you can.  You snatch up a pulse rifle just in time.  You hear the heavy footsteps of something nasty and turn to face it.

Alien scenario:
Aliens might be a bit more tricky.  You just got cooked by some human's flamer and pop out as a new dretch.  Tearing down the halls, you come across a Tyrant corpse.  SCORE.  You latch your little fangs onto the body and start sucking up the powerful juices.  As you do your body starts to writhe and change.  Just then, JoeNoobius comes around the corner with his rifle.  He sees the body of a Tyrant on the ground with this bulging sack on it's back.  He curses and whips out his riffle just as the sack explodes and a dragoon pops out.  He doesn't even have time to radio for help before he becomes dragoon breakfast.


Of course either of those scenarios could go another way so it would be better to work as teams where one person guards while another harvests, etc...

[[db@]Megabite]

I can imagine two scenarios... either it is well balanced and everybody is finally running around with "top equipment", killing diversity...
...or games are over in mere minutes as the slightly better team gets even more powerful even faster...

It may be worth a try, there is a "Mods" button in the main menu, I guess it works...
For the base game: I think it would change gameplay too much. Realism is not everything, a game has to have its rules.

Danny

[Stof]

Megabite"]I can imagine two scenarios... either it is well balanced and everybody is finally running around with "top equipment", killing diversity...
...or games are over in mere minutes as the slightly better team gets even more powerful even faster...

It may be worth a try, there is a "Mods" button in the main menu, I guess it works...
For the base game: I think it would change gameplay too much. Realism is not everything, a game has to have its rules.

Danny

I must say I'm not a huge fan of the money buying equipment games type. I'm sure the game would be much more fun without it of course, weapons would have to be balanced a little. Weak weapons beeing stronger and strong weapons slightly weaker.

[kozak6]

Yes, this would make a very interesting mod.

[BabyAlien]

Megabite"]I can imagine two scenarios... either it is well balanced and everybody is finally running around with "top equipment", killing diversity...
...or games are over in mere minutes as the slightly better team gets even more powerful even faster...

It may be worth a try, there is a "Mods" button in the main menu, I guess it works...
For the base game: I think it would change gameplay too much. Realism is not everything, a game has to have its rules.

Danny

Yes, there is a good point there in that weapons and bodies probably should not go on forever.  On a team of 5 with 5 Lucy's floating around the map then the whole team might be set just like that.

Pehaps weapons would have to malfunction and bodies 'expire' etc..

[Vector_Matt]

Megabite"]It may be worth a try, there is a "Mods" button in the main menu, I guess it works...

If someone knows how to do that, please do! It would be very cool to try and might even get it's own server or two.

[OverFlow]

It does sound kinda fun and interesting... But I see a major problem with people complaining that when they die, they should be able to pick back up their stuff, and everyone getting huffy puffy about which stuff belongs to who.

Not to mention intentional teamkilling/not protecting teammates to get cool stuff from teammates...

[Aziere]

Or better yet, don't die so much. I never run out of cash, and you shouldn't either.

Idea is just stupid. Imbalanced and provokes all kinds of unimaginative gameplay.

[SLAVE|Mietz]

Or better yet, don't die so much. I never run out of cash, and you shouldn't either.

Idea is just stupid. Imbalanced and provokes all kinds of unimaginative gameplay.

agreed, just let the game-mechanics be as they are
i never run out of money, if you do, just stay at base longer till you get funds automatically.

[stahlsau]

I'm talking about the question I'm sure everyone has wondered at least for a brief second:
"I just used up all my salary for a pulse rifle and got trampled by a Tyrant two steps from the armory. Why can't I pick it UP from the $x!!&* GROUND?"

Yeah, that's right, i asked myself that too.

But:

This might help noobs a lot. This game is NOT noob friendly.

Actually, at least when playing as human, this game is *very* noob-friendly. Of course it sucks when you enter a game at stage3...but when everyone is at s1, the rifle is a really powerful gun, not alone against dretches. I mean, almost everyone who starts playing trem has played some fps before and therefore can handle a gun and a ironsight (eh..crosshair).

Idea is just stupid. Imbalanced and provokes all kinds of unimaginative gameplay.

Fully ACK!

Or better yet, don't die so much.

That, my friend, is one of the best ideas i've ever heard

[Stof]

Or better yet, don't die so much.

Yeah, nothing like telling new players to camp a little more

[Vector_Matt]

As was mentioned earlier, mabey it could be a mod. That way only those who want to play it wil (And you have to admit it does sound a little bit fun. :wink: )

[Stof]

As was mentioned earlier, mabey it could be a mod. That way only those who want to play it wil (And you have to admit it does sound a little bit fun. :wink: )

Myself, I would prefer a system somewhat like in ET where there is no money and thus, there is nothing to lose personaly by dieing except helping the other team.

[SLAVE|Mietz]

As was mentioned earlier, mabey it could be a mod. That way only those who want to play it wil (And you have to admit it does sound a little bit fun. :wink: )

Myself, I would prefer a system somewhat like in ET where there is no money and thus, there is nothing to lose personaly by dieing except helping the other team.

make am mod: "Tremulous: Enemy Territory"

[BabyAlien]

Or better yet, don't die so much. I never run out of cash, and you shouldn't either.

Idea is just stupid. Imbalanced and provokes all kinds of unimaginative gameplay.

Is it me or does this post look like it could have been generated by an 'meaningless negative post generator'.

Imbalanced...  How exactly?
Unimaginative gameplay...  Why would it be unimaginative?
Stupid... no comment.

No wait, I was wrong.  It would have been an 'arrogant meaningless negative post generator'.

I would rather not have said anything in reply to that post but chose to in hope of preventing those comments from dragging this thread off into meaningless flame-o-land and encouraging people continue posting something (at least somewhat) constructive.

[Aziere]

Imbalanced: You still would lose armor. While aliens get armor at the same time as weapons. Therefor imbalanced.

Unimaginative gameplay: It will become a rushfest.

And yes I'm arrogant and negative. But I only seek perfection, nothing else. This won't lead to it.

[BabyAlien]

Imbalanced: You still would lose armor. While aliens get armor at the same time as weapons. Therefor imbalanced.

Unimaginative gameplay: It will become a rushfest.

And yes I'm arrogant and negative. But I only seek perfection, nothing else. This won't lead to it.

So you're saying this idea could be improved.  Perhaps if the humans picked up armor from the bodies and perhaps the aliens came out of it with reduced health as a result of the 'ordeal'?

As for the rushfest, I don't know how you can state that absolutely as if it is certain.  It could just as easily make it more imaginative, with more possible strategies.  It goes without saying that it would have to be done intelligently and tweaked to make it playable and balanced.

You have to also consider that any rush would be softened by the fact that it would be safer to die close to your base than away from it.  So defenders would find it easier to regroup.  And it wouldn't be that easy to snatch up a weapon and keep running.  You would be exposed and vulnerable for a while.

[BabyAlien]

But:

This might help noobs a lot. This game is NOT noob friendly.

Actually, at least when playing as human, this game is *very* noob-friendly. Of course it sucks when you enter a game at stage3...but when everyone is at s1, the rifle is a really powerful gun, not alone against dretches. I mean, almost everyone who starts playing trem has played some fps before and therefore can handle a gun and a ironsight (eh..crosshair).

I'm just coming out of noobness and know that the best service I could offer my team as a noob was to not feed, so I spent most of my time hiding/camping/building.  Perhaps by 'noob' I mean more 'not l33t'.  Some people know the game but just aren't ravenous killing machines or are rather quite the opposite.

It is definitely easier to start learning the game as a human though, I agree on that point.

My point should perhaps be taken to mean that 'non l33t' people end up camping a lot.  The prospect of going out and getting an upgrade without having to kill a dragoon might help draw them out and give a way for them to contribute.

Perhaps the idea could take another incarnation... Gatherers who bring bodies back to the base to reclaim their resources for the team.  Hmmm INTERESTING perhaps this requires another thread...

[Neo]

Corpse hunting could work, but it would need alot of balancing.

You'd need atleast corpse decay so after a time it disappears to stop people from corpse campin. Maybe also a slow down after digesting a corpse instead of no damage, so it makes people think before they do something.

[stahlsau]

My point should perhaps be taken to mean that 'non l33t' people end up camping a lot.

There's a difference between "camping" and "not feeding".
You just have to be a little careful. Don't rush the alien base alone with no armor. Don't chase tyrants. Don't chase goons with no armor (unless they are screaming). Such things...

And you don't have to hunt down a goon to get an upgrade. Killing a dretch gives 175 Credits, that's a larmor and a painsaw, for example. And killing a dretch is fairly easy, even for a noob. Kill 2 dretches and don't die in that time, and you probably can afford a battlesuit.


Afterall, i don't like the idea and i don't think it would lead to anything good. You can always build a mod, but i really don't think this has any chances to get into the base tree.

[SLAVE|Mietz]

My point should perhaps be taken to mean that 'non l33t' people end up camping a lot.

There's a difference between "camping" and "not feeding".
You just have to be a little careful. Don't rush the alien base alone with no armor. Don't chase tyrants. Don't chase goons with no armor (unless they are screaming). Such things...

And you don't have to hunt down a goon to get an upgrade. Killing a dretch gives 175 Credits, that's a larmor and a painsaw, for example. And killing a dretch is fairly easy, even for a noob. Kill 2 dretches and don't die in that time, and you probably can afford a battlesuit.


Afterall, i don't like the idea and i don't think it would lead to anything good. You can always build a mod, but i really don't think this has any chances to get into the base tree.

totaly agree, the game now is PERFECTLY balanced, i think BLIZZARD wouldn't have done a better job.
If corpse-harvesting would be introduced, the humans would gain a big advantage, because they dont have to rely on armory/repeater so much (you out of ammo, just get a new gun from a dead comrade). This would have a great impact on tactics.
And second, why should Aliens get evo-points from dead corpses? Reality? Balancing?
It would be realistic that aliens can FEED of their bodies and regen health, but that would just be an overpowered advantage (regen health + health feed?)

Maybe and only MAYBE if the harvesting would take some time (like more time on a B-suite, and less on naked humans), the idea could have some future, anything else makes Tremulous another game.

The dynamic would be like adding Vietcong the rocketjump ability, it makes the game more SPEED-based and Trem isn't designed for that.

[Vector_Matt]

If corpse-harvesting would be introduced, the humans would gain a big advantage, because they dont have to rely on armory/repeater so much (you out of ammo, just get a new gun from a dead comrade). This would have a great impact on tactics.

Actualy that issue has been addressed, guns taken from dead comrades wouldn't have full ammo, they would probably have very little at all.

[Teiman]

Corpse hunting could work, but it would need alot of balancing.

You'd need atleast corpse decay so after a time it disappears to stop people from corpse campin. Maybe also a slow down after digesting a corpse instead of no damage, so it makes people think before they do something.

Maybe aliens can place a "mini-building", a small egg that automatically digest the building. Call it "Vermis". So this able the human to kill that mini-building to stop the score.

[Paradox]

I have wanted something like this for a long time. A control scheme for this is you could salvage things, say you could salvage a gun and get 2/3 the original credits. Same with alien. You could decompose the body, and get 2/3 the evolve points (including the invisible points, that when you do damage to someone, the ones that stack up)

[[HUN]N.M.I.]

That would surely suck, everyone would try to get the guns first.

[[db@]Megabite]

Anyone remember the early counter-strike betas? Weapons from earlier rounds everywhere and everyone just rushing for the guns...

It sucked.

Danny

[Neo]

yeah but these would have a lifetime, and you have set map rotations. Also counterstrike didn't have small speedy buggers that could flying headshot you from 10m away.

[Teiman]

Bad idea:
Maybe if a turret destruct, you can get his barrel has a new type of "autogun"

[Vector_Matt]

Then people would just build turrets, tk them, and get a free mega-weapon.

[chompers]

Here's a different slant on the idea:
Only human corpses have value, but they have value for both teams.
Only a construction kit can salvage a corpse for cash & items, and only a granger can harvest the corpse for points. Humans with the same weapon as a corpse could replenish their ammo from it.
Other classes would be able to destroy (gib) the human corpses to prevent anyone from claiming it.

The effects that it would have:
*Less skilled players would take builder classes and tag along hoping for scraps. Nobody wants to see newb builders on their team, espceially not at the frontline.
*It would discourage the human suicide runs where you wipe out as much of a base as possible with saw / flamer / grenade until you die from acid.
*It would encourage humans camping even more, because nobody will want to leave a corpse in the middle of the map.
*Humans would be able to salvage cash during the end game when the s3 aliens start slaughtering left and right. This would be great.

I don't think this would be "newb friendly" at all, but it could still be interesting and fun as a mod. I would rather see a mod that pushes the game in the opposite direction somehow - I mean, one that really discourages humans from camping.