Author Topic: Friendly Fire (Read 14503 times)

testian · « **on:** May 19, 2006, 08:43:54 pm »

Some servers have friendly fire on team mates enabled.
--

I don't like it, because tremulous does not need such PSEUDO-realism and nobody is expecting it.
For pseudo-realism we have counter-strike.
It influences balance, because it's easier to teamkill as a human and I often shoot at teammates, because they have a lot of dretches around them.

btw: how can i filter FF-Servers?

evilfish · « **Reply #1 on:** May 19, 2006, 09:55:45 pm »

Know which ones have friendly fire, and which ones don't.

OneEyedTrouserSnake · « **Reply #2 on:** May 19, 2006, 10:13:26 pm »

Think about it: Aliens can't really do FF.

KorJax · « **Reply #3 on:** May 19, 2006, 10:26:51 pm »

Hate it for Aliens. Except the "tjw" server, they have a special kind of FF on that makes it so certain aliens and certain attacks I belive cant get FF hurt, which makes it alot better, plus that server has more build points so you can actually make a base, which rocks

. Its just silly though on other servers. There is no "accidental" FF with a slash attack, you would have to be mentally retarded for that to happen "in real life" or in a huge battle surrounded by humans.

Its pretty much needed for humans though. Not only does it promote less camping, but unrealistic shooting+nading of thier own base+teammates like a frikin' rambo stops effectivly when FF is on. I hate being on a server where the humans do nothing but lucy+nade thier own base to death, and the only thing that gets damaged is the dretch. Its completly stupid.

So i voted YES... its alot more balanced and less campy with it on, and makes it so shooting/slashing (with big aliens) requires thought. However most servers should re-evaluate the alien FF, as TKing a dretch because of trample, or a dretch TKing a maradur is just silly. This is "fixed" on the "tjw" server though, so i tend to play there

Paradox · « **Reply #4 on:** May 19, 2006, 11:16:33 pm »

Any server using the trembot exe and .qvm has the dretch immunity

Stasis · « **Reply #5 on:** May 19, 2006, 11:33:57 pm »

I feel humans should get FF when it comes to explosives (grenade TK). Leave aliens alone.

Neo · « **Reply #6 on:** May 19, 2006, 11:48:05 pm »

I think the way they have it on @db servers atm is fine. The only problem with FF is you can't trust your teammates to not screw up. ie. Having your Tyrant die from team poisoning.

[db@]Mr.Hanky · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2006, 02:47:41 am »

We didn't enable FF to raise the realism.
We activated it to stop the excessive fire spam from human side.

You have no chance to reach the human base when 4 or 5 humans spam into a corridor with lucis, plasmas and chainguns.
You know what I mean?

The teamkill ratio in the alien team corresponds the teamkill ratio in the human team.

testian · « **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2006, 03:39:24 am »

You mean FF is just a temporary balance fix on your server.
Then it's okay.

Whatever, I don't care on collateral damage.

SLAVE|Mietz · « **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2006, 06:31:59 am »

i prefer it on, but sometimes even i get annoyed by ppl that spam with chaingun on S2.

The problem is, you never know if the enemy has just hit you or your teammates (i'm not talking about kills, but about hits)

but often ff prevents "spamming" with guns and blindly nading in base.

Slajer · « **Reply #10 on:** May 20, 2006, 10:48:20 am »

I'm ok with FF on, i would just like to see some protection against massive teamkilling.

This guy Atso teamkilled on purpose, with every teamkill, aliens got one frag closer to the next stage.
teamkiller.jpg

I just wish db@ central hive would have voting enabled for cases such as this.

Hydra · « **Reply #11 on:** May 20, 2006, 11:27:26 am »

the resion i dont like FF on is that some times u get someone who has something very wrong with them who thinks its funny to TK all the time.

[db@]Megabite · « **Reply #12 on:** May 20, 2006, 12:12:10 pm »

Actually two of our servers (Andromeda and Proximus) are running FF off, all others are FF on. Choose what you like!

There are pros and cons for FF, I actually like FF on more. It allows for more controlled / careful gameplay. Of course you may have griefers, but they know how to destroy a game with FF off, either (deconstructing, etc.). Of course you may have teammates killing you once in a while... but that happens on both sides and is not unbalancing the game.

Danny

P.S.: Voting should be allowed on Central Hive, at least there is "set g_allowvote 1" in the server.cfg

stahlsau · « **Reply #13 on:** May 20, 2006, 12:15:44 pm »

i voted yes, because..welll, i like it

BUT:

Quote

Any server using the trembot exe and .qvm has the dretch immunity

I REALLY hope every server will support that soon. Dretching is really lousy when ff is on...i once saw a charged tyrant trampling over about 5 dretches, all dead. That was almost funny, if not one of them was me

[db@]Megabite · « **Reply #14 on:** May 20, 2006, 12:38:35 pm »

The problem is, that tjw is using / providing modified server- (and for administration client-) files.

We are using the main tremulous source with R1Admin and unless this dretchprotection is not implemented in the trunk I bet it will not show up on our servers.
But maybe it is better to trample a dretch standing in the way when you are fleeing a battle with a tyrant than having the dretch protected and blocking you to death... a dretch does not cost 5 points at least!

Danny

Vector_Matt · « **Reply #15 on:** May 20, 2006, 02:42:54 pm »

It doesn't protect the dretch so mush as it sends the dretch flying away when hit by teammates.

Aziere · « **Reply #16 on:** May 20, 2006, 03:40:40 pm »

I have yet to see humans win on any #db server with FF on. The humans usually pick some small corridor to camp in. But, that doesn't work that well actually. When you get rushed by tyrants, only a few will be able to shoot, while the rest just have to wait. And with a few advanced dragoons, jetpackers gets taken down easily.

The endresult is... the humans lose. Every time I play that same scenario happens.

Though, on servers with no FF, aliens almost never win.

Well, what I'd like is: No player FF, but building FF. If you cast a grenade in your own base, then it should blow up the base, period.

[db@]Megabite · « **Reply #17 on:** May 20, 2006, 05:58:21 pm »

Quote from: "Aziere"

The endresult is... the humans lose. Every time I play that same scenario happens.

Though, on servers with no FF, aliens almost never win.

I cannot back up that comment. I do not win / lose more often than before with either human or aliens. As we mostly play coordinated with teamspeak we usually win 3 to 4 out of 5 matches... either side (mostly aliens). That has not changed since playing FF on mostly, it just feels more comfortable as human weapon spamming is reduced and gameplay is more controlled on either side. Camping a long tunnel with 5-8 people is ineffective, you are forced to go out and hunt... by camping hardcore humans usually just delay being overrun. To win you have to wipe aliens out and that is not harder with FF on!

If you prefer playing FF off on our servers just join Proximus or Andromeda!

Danny

codernem · « **Reply #18 on:** May 20, 2006, 10:37:10 pm »

Quote from: "[db@

Megabite"]
Quote from: "Aziere"
The endresult is... the humans lose. Every time I play that same scenario happens.

Though, on servers with no FF, aliens almost never win.

I cannot back up that comment. I do not win / lose more often than before with either human or aliens. As we mostly play coordinated with teamspeak we usually win 3 to 4 out of 5 matches... either side (mostly aliens). That has not changed since playing FF on mostly, it just feels more comfortable as human weapon spamming is reduced and gameplay is more controlled on either side. Camping a long tunnel with 5-8 people is ineffective, you are forced to go out and hunt... by camping hardcore humans usually just delay being overrun. To win you have to wipe aliens out and that is not harder with FF on!

If you prefer playing FF off on our servers just join Proximus or Andromeda!

Danny

I agree with Megabyte. I'm new on trem (less than two month), and today evening I tryed FF on a db@ server. It was a surprise to me, playing as a human. At last the match ended in a draw, but with human base all up, and aliens without OM and eggs. FF forces humans to go out (at least, I went out...). FF doesn't block human camping however, but can resolve many static situation, i.e. 2-3 humans camping in the hall that connect human base with box room in Tremor map. With FF on, this is impossible to do: in or out (three time I entered in box room alone, with TM waiting I-dont-know-what in the hall).

On the other hand, I think that dretch immunity is bad, because it's the same concept applyed to aliens.

I'm sorry for my poor english, i'm italian. Hope someday i could improve it a bit.

Cheers

UnplayedNamer · « **Reply #19 on:** May 21, 2006, 01:55:17 pm »

FF sends me up the wall, I just don't want to use any spread weapons when playing human any more (kinda annoying as Shotgun is probably my favorite weapon) and I just end up sitting watching others die rather than try and help out, just in case my help turns out to be their death..and I'm ending up doing lots of lone runs which are never a good idea as human. On the other side, playing Mara is a nightmare - I may be trying to tackle a human or two..dretch jumps in that I don't even see and 1 second later, dead dretch, -1 to me and me withdrawing just in case.

Most games I'm leaving early cos I'm pissed off at getting TKed or TKing myself - finished 2 games in the last week.

Whether a server is FF or not should be posted in BIG FUCKOFF letters when you're looking at the server info or entering - for me, it ruins the game.

Teiman · « **Reply #20 on:** May 21, 2006, 05:05:38 pm »

After playing with FF on, I feel i like it, because make the game harder, and even newbies learn to teamplay more, and avoid firing lucy inside base.,etc. So.. It creates a new, better, gameplay.

Nemo · « **Reply #21 on:** May 21, 2006, 05:39:17 pm »

I really like FF, especially against stupid basekillers... Some days ago, I saw one spawning as human (so same team as me), and them directly heading for armoury, buying a luci there, and started to shoot at the reactor. I simply gone into his line of fire near at him, and at the next shot, he tried, there was a nice suicide

. He does not respawned, he left the game then.

The only thing, I hate at FF are your "teammates": Either, they're standing or running in your line of fire, or they shoot u in your back.

I prefer the last one on servers with teamkill-banning.

Gr33tz, Nemo

[HUN]N.M.I. · « **Reply #22 on:** May 21, 2006, 07:23:50 pm »

Hmm, yes, we have here various opinions.
Personally, I think that FF isn't good for Tremulous. In Counter-Strike for example, there are good reasons for it: 1) realism 2) gameplay element (not to shoot everything that moves)
But for Trem, these elements aren't in use. You see, Trem doesn't want to be (and isn't) a realistic game (lasers, Aliens and so on). Nor has it the same gameplay elements (many of you don't think about this one).

In Trem, there is a lot more responsibility when dying: You help the enemy team win easier, by helping them to advance to the next Stage, or by supporting the enemy with credits (because you die).
So, if a teammate shoots you, and then you die from a scratch, it causes a bigger problem than in any other game.
Also, FF isn't fair or balanced because of the models: While in Counter-Strike or other FPS games the models are nearly same the size, in Trem the Aliens are smaller than their Human counterparts (except for Tyrants). So it's harder to hit an Alien as an Alien, then to hit another Human player as a Human. Also, consider that Aliens have almost only melee attacks, but Humans can use splash damage weapons (e.g. Flame Thrower, which harms the wielder as well, when not skilled enough) or ranged weaponry, with slow projectiles (Pulse Rifle).
Conclusion: FF is really bad, because it can't be balanced in Trem.

Stof · « **Reply #23 on:** May 21, 2006, 07:49:22 pm »

Quote from: "[HUN

N.M.I."]Conclusion: FF is really bad, because it can't be balanced in Trem.

Yes it can. I dare to say that it's pretty balanced too.

[db@]Mr.Hanky · « **Reply #24 on:** May 21, 2006, 08:41:44 pm »

Quote from: "[HUN

N.M.I."]You see, Trem doesn't want to be (and isn't) a realistic game (lasers, Aliens and so on).[/u].

Hmm... Do you want to tell us, that Counter-Strike is a realistic game? Or BF, ET and Unreal Tournament?

Ksempac · « **Reply #25 on:** May 21, 2006, 11:04:55 pm »

I just played some game with FF ON on a [db@] server and i noticed that Aliens TKed much more than humans (the human team was full of noobs, but they managed to get S3 before us with all the kills we gave them...it was strange to see a BS guy with a Shotgun XD)

The problem occurs when Aliens attack a single human : they are all near the human trying to bite/slash him and a single slash from a Marauder or a Dragoon kill the poor little dretch that was desperatly trying to bite the human.

FF isn t only for Humans...

testian · « **Reply #26 on:** May 21, 2006, 11:53:00 pm »

It would be better if there was no FF but if you hit your friends you will be punished (your credits are transferred to rest of the team, or the damage you would do on your teammates hits yourself.

it's not funny if "third" persons are affected.

(Since pseudo-realism is NOT or AGAINST our aim, this is the better solution)

SLAVE|Mietz · « **Reply #27 on:** May 22, 2006, 08:36:29 am »

Quote from: "Ksempac"

I just played some game with FF ON on a [db@] server and i noticed that Aliens TKed much more than humans (the human team was full of noobs, but they managed to get S3 before us with all the kills we gave them...it was strange to see a BS guy with a Shotgun XD)

The problem occurs when Aliens attack a single human : they are all near the human trying to bite/slash him and a single slash from a Marauder or a Dragoon kill the poor little dretch that was desperatly trying to bite the human.

FF isn t only for Humans...

What is strange about a BS with a shotgun?

stahlsau · « **Reply #28 on:** May 22, 2006, 08:48:09 am »

Quote

What is strange about a BS with a shotgun?

ACK. I love that gun too

DarkRogue · « **Reply #29 on:** May 22, 2006, 09:33:28 am »

FF deserves to be on for:

Flamers - despite many people claiming flamers are easy to kill, there's at least 4 decent flamer users on AKKA alone that prove daily that killing them with flamer is NOT easy. When humans have a flamer in the group expect all dretches to die and any brave non dragoons will be seriously crippled. Teammates NEED to get damage from running through flames using them as a kill all shield.

Luci Cannons - Luci spam. nuff said.

Plasma Rifles - Spray and pray. Like flamers as long as plasma rifle users can just hose down an area in plasma no aliens can realistically get near one without a concentrated effort by a team of aliens. Everything else gets turned to swish cheese in short order.

Dragoons - To cut back on the pounce in pounce away one shot one kill S1 bullshit FF for goons wouldn't be a bad thing. Likewise it'd be helpful for clearing stupid grangers and dretches off the floor

Turrets - I'd love for turrets to be like gloom turrets. If you're standing in the way of them targetting aliens YOU get mowed down by them first.

Everything else FF deserves to be off (player wise)

News:

Poll

Do you prefer friendly fire switched on?

Author Topic: Friendly Fire (Read 14503 times)