Author Topic: Valid careers in programming?  (Read 12266 times)

KamikOzzy

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Valid careers in programming?
« on: January 01, 2008, 08:50:42 pm »
Bunch of ranting and bs, if its too long just read the last paragraph. <3 oz

My dad always warned me to learn all I could from working with him (he owns a concrete construction company) and the other outfits around town, but not to make a career of it. It sounds cool at first, and pays considerably more than other jobs teenagers can have, but there is little to no opportunity for advancement.

In my life I've pretty much never mastered anything. I've picked up many skills around construction sites: I can do basic masonry, concrete finishing, tile setting, HVAC, electrical, and can operate most of the heavy machinery, but I only have a basic to proficient knowledge of each, getting bored with all skills before I can master any of them. The problem is that each time you go a different path, your pay resets to entry-level, and start out as, basically the company bitch, all over again. No respect for skill is earned in this way. Good compensation is not awarded, and basically it sucks.

Well, I'm 18 years old now, in my last semester of high school, and I have no idea where I want to go to college, nor for what degree I will pursue. I've been finishing high school by going half time to regular school the past two years, and half time to a technical school as an electrician. I had originally planned on using this as a jumpstart for an electrical engineering degree at a four year college.

As the days went by, though, I became bored with electricity. Aerospace engineering sounded exciting for a month or two, and then I realized I'd probably get bored with that, too.

I always get bored with nearly anything after I reach a level of proficiency. Repetitiveness doesn't keep me happy, but perhaps all jobs are like that. The only thing I've never gotten bored with in the large picture of things is computing. From the day I got my first computer, an oldschool Mac back in '94, I wasn't going to be seperated from the damn thing. Still, I have never picked up anything in the ways of coding, I knew how to declare integers and shit and make basic loops with C++ before, but never knew how to do anything useful with it, and definitely never took it beyond command line functions. I was definitely bored fast with that kind of useless shit.

I'm starting to think that a career in computers is what I really want, as cliche as it is for a forum of this sort. Actually, it's rather cliche anywhere, and that bothers me. Perhaps too many people are in programming for it to be worth pursuing for me. I don't know if there are many jobs available or not, and whether the average college can teach me enough to be good at it. I've heard many people say it's unintelligent to go to college for programming, as you can learn this on your own. I've heard several people tell me to just use google to learn. I have googled everything I could think of throughout several years, and the most I can find is an offer from *insert online college here*.

Is it something worth going to college for?
Is it something that really can be learned through google?
Are too many people already doing this?
Should I make shorter topics?


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Shadowgandor

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2008, 08:58:04 pm »
Is it something worth going to college for?

Yea, some people say it's not needed but judging on how you talk about getting bored with something before mastering it seems like you are like me :P I took some guides for programming but I need to get the motivation to continue: College. Not sure if it's the same for you but whatever.

Is it something that really can be learned through google?
Yes, but read what I answered above.

Are too many people already doing this?
I live in the Netherlands and there're way too few programmers, but it depends on the country.

Should I make shorter topics?
I've seen way worse, so no :P

Bunneh

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2008, 09:11:27 pm »
I'll give you advice, but advice from a 14 year old genius isn't too valuable around here. What do I know, right? Anyway, here goes.

Quote
Is it something worth going to college for?

Oh yes. The world is rapidly becoming more computer-dependent. Taking computer-related training is very wise, since a few years of college will get you a job with a 5-figure salary (current computer programmers = $65,510 annually).

Quote
Is it something that really can be learned through google?

Yes, but taking college courses will give you a degree in the field, which REALLY helps job resumes. It allows you to write "Associate's/Bachelor's/Master's/Graduate's Degree" instead of writing down "homeschooled in computer nerdry lolz" under "Qualifications". Also, under "Previous Experience", you could legitimately write down various college projects you've worked on instead of "homemade Doom clones and hax00rzing teh FBI mainframe lolz", which would help get you a high-paying job.

Another thing you could do is to join the military as a computer technician, which would be action-packed and you'd be contributing to society without being stuck in a windowless basement as a coder slave for some megacorporation back Stateside. Computer techs are valuable now; the United States military is gradually becoming more involved in cyber warfare.

Yet another thing you could do is to join an unknown 3-letter government agency where you could LEGALLY hack into China's computer systems, use their nukes to fry the Russians, then give the US a reason to nuke Russia AND China. Win-Win situation!

Quote
Are too many people already doing this?

2006: ~435,000 trained employees nationwide
2016: ~417,000 trained employees nationwide

Projections show a shortage of computer geeks working for legitimate companies ( :P ) 8 years from now. Advice; get in college, get a degree or two under your belt, and about that time you'll be in high demand. High demand + few available = LOTS O' MONEY TO BE MADE. Understood?

Quote
Should I make shorter topics?

Only if they're mindless ramblings with no point. This doesn't fall into that category.
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kevlarman

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2008, 09:26:59 pm »
first of all, you should be good at thinking logically and math in general to get into programming (yes there are a lot of programmers that are bad at math, most of them are absolutely horrible programmers). ideally you should have taken at least one calculus class by now
Is it something worth going to college for?
it depends
you definitely don't need to go to college to learn to program, but it makes a huge difference if you did go to college (or even if you are currently attending) when you search for a job.
Quote
Is it something that really can be learned through google?
yes it is, and maybe even should be depending on the college you go to though if you can make it into one of the better CS schools, then you will definitely learn things that you won't learn through google.
Quote
Are too many people already doing this?
Should I make shorter topics?
i don't think so and yes, respectively
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KamikOzzy

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2008, 11:40:09 pm »
I haven't taken any calculus or such, I've taken the laziest classes I could have picked. I don't think I should let that stop me from at least trying, idk. Another problem I have is that, living in Kansas, we don't have the best selection for colleges, and out of state tuition could just about bury me. =/
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ShadowNinjaDudeMan

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2008, 11:41:03 pm »
Just another 14 YO genius here.

As Bunneh says, we are getting more computer dependent, and as forhow many people, well, as we become more techy, we need more people to service that tech, and since there are less for more, well, the price of your time rises.

You are at an ideal age to cash in on this, get yourself them degrees, and by the time your outta college, the shortage will beginning to take effect, you can get a fasttrack promotion in a company, military or not, and by the time you are 30 you'll be sitting at home (some palace somewhere) with twelve curvacious Russian woman for company in a hot tub putting the finishing touches to your own game, and every now and then some guy will phone you up askng where the "on" button is.

Run-along, get busy.
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ShadowNinjaDudeMan

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2008, 11:43:12 pm »
Well, maybe talk about some out-of school tuition if you want the mental-picture I painted, somehow get more skilled in maths.
As long as you have determination.

Look at Bill Gates, hes a college dropout and used to look like a pot-hippie.

But I will hunt you if you make another Microsoft.
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KamikOzzy

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2008, 11:55:35 pm »
somehow get more skilled in maths.
As long as you have determination.

It's partly my fault for taking lazy classes, but partly the fact that 90% of teachers around here are dumbasses. Would you recommend buying books, or trying to learn via the google method, or even a private tutor? I don't know if that's even available. I'm certainly not struggling, the tutor would have to be capable of teaching advanced math. But...don't they teach you at least some of this in your first years in college?
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munroe

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2008, 12:52:46 am »
I'm 23 years old, and I graduated from a 4 year (including coop) college Computer Science program in one of the biggest cities here in Canada. The first year was easy, but became increasingly difficult until I was pulling my hair out in my last year. I worked hard enough to be accepted into the coop portion of the program I was taking. I acquired a job in my first coop term with a government department, working on a team that did no technical work at all. After being noticed for having above average computer skills, I was migrated to a technical team where I've been for the last 3 years(2 years as a student). I graduated in December of 2006, and started work full-time in January of 2007. In my first year I competed for a better title(and pay), and I got it. I'm now making more than enough money to have my own car, live in my own house, pay for my bills, eat good food, and buy something nice for myself from time to time.

So yeah, going to College for me was worth it. I tried learning on my own, but I had a hard time with the more difficult concepts. Another human being who is well versed in the subject is infinitely more valuable than a search engine serving up content that could be false. What you need to do is determine what you would like to get out of a college program. I wanted to learn the fundamentals of Computer Science, what I could expect in a professional work environment, and how to work with other programmers. So I selected a program that taught Data Structures, Compilers, Number Theory, Graphics, Unix/Linux, Operating Systems, Networking, Systems Design, Project Planning/Execution, and a final group project. The course didn't focus on one particular language, platform, or method of thinking. We had teachers who had previously worked for Novell, Nortel, the Royal Canadian Military Police, the Federal Government, and the National Capital Freenet(a local precursor to the Internet), and they taught us Windows, Linux, Unix(solaris), DOS, Batch Files, C++, C, BASH, PERL, DirectX, OpenGL, Java, CSS, Javascript, Microsoft Project, and Assembly.

My point is to pick a course that teaches you the basics in as many areas as possible(and more advanced techniques in areas that matter), unless you know specifically what type of computing environment you want to work in. People I went to school with have gone on to work in PHP web development, massive .NET projects for big Government departments, and smaller Java projects for private local companies.

Personally I remotely maintain several web servers that host both static and dynamic content in a Solaris environment. I maintain several local development servers that run Linux, Solaris and Windows, for things like our in house Search Engine, Web Stats packages(processing gigabytes of logfiles a day), and internal projects to make our day to day work easier. I mostly code in Perl, but I also have to debug coldfusion, C, and sometimes HTML/CSS/Javascript. I'm never bored, and I look forward to work just about every day.

I also worked for my dad's construction company in high school. I learned the basics of how to frame a house, lay brick, run wire, and sweep. I didn't like any of it, so I went to school, worked my ass off, and got a job where I'll never have to lift a finger if I don't want to. It was worth every penny, and every minute. I would do it again in a heartbeat if I had to.

If you have any more questions, just ask. I'd be happy to answer them.
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benmachine

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2008, 02:14:31 am »
Personally I long considered a career in programming, but recently have begun to wonder whether the game mods, cute birthday cards, and little handy utilities I code in my spare time are analogous to the kind of work I'd get in a professional capacity. I'm thinking maybe it would be best to keep it as a hobby, coding what I want to code when I want to code it, and make REAL money from my maths degree I'll get from Cambridge (well, one can hope, eh).
benmachine

KamikOzzy

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2008, 02:18:00 am »
I'd love to get good at math, but it may be just too late now. I've considered going on to college for math, just because I want to be better at it than I am, but then sometimes I think it would be a waste of time because I wouldn't know enough math going into it to keep up. =/

I'm not dumb, I catch on quick and all, I just never cared to learn as an immature high schooler. Slowly growing up now, I wish I knew a whole lot more.
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munroe

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2008, 03:28:46 am »
Personally I long considered a career in programming, but recently have begun to wonder whether the game mods, cute birthday cards, and little handy utilities I code in my spare time are analogous to the kind of work I'd get in a professional capacity. I'm thinking maybe it would be best to keep it as a hobby, coding what I want to code when I want to code it, and make REAL money from my maths degree I'll get from Cambridge (well, one can hope, eh).

I'm making real money coding right now, but I don't do much in my free time anymore. I just couldn't care less when I get home from work. I'd rather relax with a good movie or by killing aliens.

What kind of job do you anticipate getting as a mathematician? If you like numbers, you might be better off just taking an accounting course. A lot of rich people have no idea how to do their taxes. And they'll pay you a lot of money to do them.
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gareth

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2008, 09:38:01 am »
you dont need super maths skills at all, i guess you should enjoy the process of programming (in general, and given time to get past the wtf stages) tho, although internet can teach (or rather give you lots of learning material) everything if you are prepared to put in the effort yourself, but imo going to college/uni is worth it. "programming" is pretty vague and covers a  lot of different jobs/concepts.

NiTRoX

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2008, 09:53:51 am »
Is it something worth going to college for?

At first I was almost in the same situation,wanting to become an engineer, now I want to become a programmer,specifially a gaem developer. You could take a BSC I.T. which involves I.T. , programming,waves and some 3d design. Recently I found another course for a degree in Creative Computing which is exactly what I want without the extra bullshit. It involves making sound,3d graphics,images and programming with computers specifically for games,web desing etc.. without learning the extra bullshit I don't like in BSC I.T.

Is it something that really can be learned through google?

Yes, but you won't learn what you want.

Are too many people already doing this?

Average Number, but then again there are many people doing other jobs. Almost everything that includes electricity,machinery and other technology involves programming so IMHO there are a few programmers out there ;)

Also, as gareth said, programming involves lots of jobs/concepts. Programming can not only be use to just make software, but can also be used to make software that operates machines or robots.

Theres also something where you can create music trhough programming but i forgot what its called. [link]

somehow get more skilled in maths.
As long as you have determination.

It's partly my fault for taking lazy classes, but partly the fact that 90% of teachers around here are dumbasses. Would you recommend buying books, or trying to learn via the google method, or even a private tutor? I don't know if that's even available. I'm certainly not struggling, the tutor would have to be capable of teaching advanced math. But...don't they teach you at least some of this in your first years in college?

I personally suggest a private tutor. The less people there are the better.Why?Becuase you are given better attention and do things faster. I've always went to private lessons for maths for like 5-6 years now and it helps alot.

Good Luck with your decision.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2008, 10:00:56 am by NiTRoX »

ShadowNinjaDudeMan

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2008, 10:29:48 am »
Im more a science/engineering guy, Im working for Oxbridge.
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Bunneh

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2008, 08:21:49 pm »
...by the time you are 30 you'll be sitting at home (some palace somewhere) with twelve curvacious Russian woman for company in a hot tub putting the finishing touches to your own game...

Problem; Ruskies don't usually shave in their native homeland. American ethics breaks down right about there. Basically, if they follow Russian traditions, you'll be in a hot tub with 12 oversized beavers instead of 12 hot chicks.

Trust me; I know from personal experience. STORY TIME!!!!!!!!

Actually, I'll put the story in a new topic. No point in spamming this one with a page-long story. Link coming soon!

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=7078.0 <-There 'tis!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2008, 08:31:37 pm by Bunneh »
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Caveman

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2008, 08:25:17 pm »
Trust me; I know from personal experience. STORY TIME!!!!!!!!

Riiiight. Please spare us any story about you and your mother taking a bath.
Grow some hair first.

Bunneh

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2008, 08:29:22 pm »
Naw, Caveman; it wasn't my mother (I'm Irish and German) and I do have some hair. Planning on growing it out into a mohawk.
Bunneh: I'll admit that I really love attentionwhoring like this.
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Bunneh, you should be ashamed.
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benmachine

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2008, 11:18:08 pm »
What kind of job do you anticipate getting as a mathematician? If you like numbers, you might be better off just taking an accounting course. A lot of rich people have no idea how to do their taxes. And they'll pay you a lot of money to do them.
I've never been quite sure, but I know I have to do my degree in maths, even if I don't get a job like that, because I'm (if you'll excuse the immodesty) just really good at it.
Finance has its appeal of course in the £££ sense, but you can't imagine getting much in the way of job satisfaction. Positions in education, especially at a higher level, sound rewarding but they're often hard work and not half as well paid.
I don't know. I feel like I should be doing something morally defensible, and accounting doesn't quite cut it in that regard.
benmachine

Steely Ann

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2008, 11:42:54 pm »
benmachine

Not sure what you mean.  You'd like to have a "morally defensible" job, but you'd also like to have it pay well?  For the most part, that sounds like you're trying to eat your cake and have it too.  I'd also say just the idea of having a "morally defensible job" for the sake of it sounds very, very stupid on its face.  Would you care to elaborate what that term entails?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2008, 11:46:35 pm by Steely Ann »

player1

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Re: Valid careers in America?
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2008, 05:33:59 am »
http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/03/why_a_career_in.html
http://www.careeroverview.com/computer-programming-careers.html

if you have a chance to get a degree, don't pass it up (stay in state, you need the sheepskin, it don't matter that much where from)
you can always fall back on swinging a hammer
also, depending on where you live, some construction trades can make really good money
if you get bored easily, try the entertainment industry
it's never exactly the same twice
plus construction skills are a plus

note: $50k per annum ain't too bad (depending on where you live)

Kaleo

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2008, 05:51:56 am »
Personally, when I leave High School and go to University, I want to take a games and interactivity course. I think it's fully worth it. The course will include programming, level design (w00t!) modeling gameplay and marketing.
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Rocinante

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Re: Valid careers in America?
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2008, 06:35:29 am »
if you have a chance to get a degree, don't pass it up (stay in state, you need the sheepskin, it don't matter that much where from)
you can always fall back on swinging a hammer
also, depending on where you live, some construction trades can make really good money
if you get bored easily, try the entertainment industry
it's never exactly the same twice
plus construction skills are a plus
note: $50k per annum ain't too bad (depending on where you live)

How fitting that an informative post like this should make P1 1337:


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IHaveWitnessed

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2008, 08:14:41 am »
Is it something worth going to college for?

It depends on the university you are applying to, obviously. I suggest you look for universities offering undergraduate research opportunities however. You should make sure that the opportunities are *meaningful* (you are contributing to the research and not simply the marketing potential of the research by working on Java UI, for example). It is worth it to interview the professors as well, see if they're actively doing research (http://scholar.google.com) and push their buttons to see where their arrogance is (without offending them though :-P).


Is it something that really can be learned through google?

Computer Science is a huge field. Programming can be learned through Google. A lot of experience can be gained from your personal computer. A lot of theory can be verified at its potential with your personal computer. However, once you cross over to high performance computing (high performance anything, really) or more complex system theory you will sometimes need expensive software or expensive hardware. You will find the open-source community will actually help you attain such things if your work is meaningful *and* free.

Make sure your university has a community you can learn from, and work with. Motivation is nothing if it is not executed. You will learn the most when you actually develop non-trivial systems. I highly recommend you become involved with the free software community. You *can* make a name for yourself without a degree and be of value to many Fortune500 companies offering interesting jobs but that will take a lot of *real* work.


On the necessity of math?

Do not worry too much about this. At the undergraduate level minimum math requirements will be:
                 - Discrete mathematics (little calculus here)
                 - Language theory (also, little to no calculus)

You will be required to take some math courses obviously but they are nothing specific to CS. Few areas of CS will require calculus (google stochastic processes). Most system scenarios whose states are determined/definite/definable (not to be used interchangeably) can be modeled with "simple" math in order to achieve any goals you might have (optimization, for example).

You should *expect* a lot of calculus work to be *provided*. Expect to provide calculus work usually only with research positions (or positions where you are writing proposals for complex soft/hard real-time systems, complex crypto systems, highly reliable systems or simulation systems [which includes games]).


On the half sigma article?

Cruft. The whole premise of "temporary knowledge capital" is false in that the knowledge capital is *not* programming language familiarity. A software engineering company working on complex systems values developers with *experience*. The *experience* is not reflected simply in knowledge of languages but the ability to optimally (or almost optimally) make use of a language as a tool to achieve good design and implementation.

However, there is a lesson to be learned here. Languages such as VB, that abstract away the more universal architectural basics of a system will really only leave you (as a developer) with experience of expression of your logic unbounded by constraints more common in large/profitable projects. In order to become a good software engineer you must truly understand the systems you develop software for or atleast have enough experience/knowledge in similar systems to be able to build parallels quickly (and fill in a smaller number of knowledge gaps). As you work on designing and implementing these systems your value will increase (exponentially if projects are completed successfully and well). So what is your value? Design and implementation foresight. Your knowledge of some high level programming language is irrelevant compared to your accomplishment. As a good software engineer you'll eventually reach a point where learning a new high level language is trivial (1-week process at most) as you will understand the most fundamental driving technologies of these languages (memory management, threading, etc...). Even more complex grammars of languages like Java will be trivial as most semantics are pretty much borrowed from other languages.

In other words, don't start off with VB or a high-level language if you aspire to become a great (not just another) software engineer...work with something a bit more "basic" like C (you'll find that the simplicity will also translate to flexibility in application). I also wouldn't worry about being good in "logic", you will build your ability to express your logic in the traditional programming language sense (ignoring very granular and simple languages like brainfuck or parallel languages). "Logic" is a very specific thing which many people mistake for "programming" (programming is expression of your rationale). "Logic" in the formal sense, on the other hand is the *definition* of your rationale (which is a very different, much more difficult process) reasoned and shown to be logically sound in some universe of discourse. They're very different things (even in formal systems you will almost never deal with formal logic). Formal logic use is more common in things like compiler development [arguable], natural language processing and AI.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 08:17:53 am by IHaveWitnessed »

player1

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Re: Valid careers on the World Wide Web?
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2008, 12:51:36 am »
gems of utter wisdom

How fitting that an informative post like this should make P1 1337:


(Oh, and where've you been dangit)


nice capture
actually i was at 1337 about a month ago
and my time logged in was at 1 day, 13 hours and 37 minutes
so i just left it like that
since it was so dang pretty
i took a personal vow of stfu
then we got a new puppy, blah, waaah
yadda, yadda
a month goes by
and yesterday i realized it was my one-year
forum anniversary
so i flamed a couple of noobs to celebrate
and poured a Deus Ex virtual forty on the curb of t3h intarwebz
for my lost and fallen homeys

"Man Down"

anyhoo, somebody deleted a couple of my posts or I'm just permanently leet
what am i saying?
of course i'm permanently leet

whatever happened to n00b pl0x?

it's good to be back

que pasa?

On Topic: Where's Steely? She disappear too?

@Ozzy: You can do eet!

Annihilation

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2008, 01:34:17 am »
Ozzy, if you are worried about high tuition costs talk to me.  I go to Dixie a community college.  It is really cheap even for out of state but the CS and the math departments aren't a joke like you would expect from a community college.  We took 4th place in the North American?(i think, i didn't get to go being a first year) Programming Contest, beat out by 3 Canadian schools.  But we beat out all the local universities like BYU and UofU.  We also beat some better known schools like M. tech and Yale.  Our lead professors Russ Ross(absolute genius has an 8 year degree from Oxford), Bart Standers, and Curt Larson(teaches advanced AI) are very well educated and talented teachers.  If you are looking for a cheap way to get a CS degree, Dixie is one of the best in all of America.  It also has a great math department.  I wont lie though, the other parts of it like sports, science, and history are rather pathetic.  But for some reason we have the pick of the crop teaching math and cs.  Dixie isn't the greatest place to put on a resume.  But its 1,000 times better than google.  Either way, a bachelor degree looks good from almost any school, especially if you can tell your boss you beat the Yale students in a contest :P
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PIE

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2008, 05:26:17 am »
I'm a professional programmer. Went to college and got 2 programming related degrees. My best advice is:
Go to college. If it is like most 4 year colleges you'll end up with a core and a few basic major courses for a while. You'll see what you like when you get there. 80% of students change their major anyway. Just think about what you do in your spare time and have been doing for a while and aim in that general direction and you'll find there generally are a lot of people to guide you along to where you want to be. Whether you get some cs related degree or you end up being completely indecisive and not even finishing GO.
I suggest you find a school you're going to be happy with. The teachers are the important things. You won't learn from bad ones and they just make thing suck.

As far as programming goes.. depends on what field. Computers are everywhere. If you want to know if there are jobs out there.. some are not all that great, some are amazing.. look. See what kinds of jobs are out there for yourself and think if you would want any of them.  A lot of times it is tough work that requires you to constantly be thinking, but programmers are my kind of people, they were in college and they make great co-workers. I basically solve logic problems all day long.. but at the end of the day I grin to myself at the fact that someone is actually paying me to program.. paying me to do what i love.. and that is how you know you've made the right choice. In a major and in a career.

benmachine

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2008, 01:01:47 pm »
Not sure what you mean.  You'd like to have a "morally defensible" job, but you'd also like to have it pay well?  For the most part, that sounds like you're trying to eat your cake and have it too.
Who doesn't want to eat their cake and have it too? I didn't say it would be easy, or even possible.
I'd also say just the idea of having a "morally defensible job" for the sake of it sounds very, very stupid on its face.  Would you care to elaborate what that term entails?
very, very stupid :( that's rather unkind

I mean, getting a job as an actuary, for example, is not something I'd enjoy because it would involve going around and judging exactly how much money I could suck out of someone without them whining. Some jobs in finance involve seemingly nothing but moving large amounts of money around until some of it ends up in your pocket. Getting a job as a teacher, on the other hand, is doubtlessly good for society and the future of the economy as a whole. Trouble being it doesn't pay half as much and occasionally dumps a 56-hour week on you.
benmachine

gareth

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2008, 07:21:10 pm »
Getting a job as a teacher, on the other hand, is doubtlessly good for society and the future of the economy as a whole.

only if you are a good teacher, which isnt easy and most fail.

Smokey

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Re: Valid careers in programming?
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2008, 06:37:43 pm »
I'm in the same boat as you ozzy, I get bored with things too easily, and like you I've realized some sort of job in the technology industry is what I'd be best at.

After talking with a recruiter from RIT (Where I plan to go), I've decided going to a community college for 2 years to get the basic classes first is the best option. Then once you have the core credits you hopefully will have more insight on what you want to do with your life.