Jin Roh-Sewers map to be planned, first step: I am preparing a draft

[zybork]

Okay, people, I suck as a player, so probably it is time to extend my skills and start sucking as a level designer as well Just to be safe that it is not my fault alone that I screw up my map, I ask you to participate, suggestions etc. are highly welcome.

One thing that concerns me is the lack of originality in nowadays maps (a hello to the Plague Bringer, btw ), they are really getting more and more boring, one important reason usually being the absence of a theme, so I decided that the sewers seen in the film Jin Roh may be a good one. After having read all the manuals about planning of a map I could find, well, let's go:

First of all, how are sewers constructed?

Sewers are constructed in a hirarchial way, you have the single small drains from the individual blocks that go into a short, crouchable path. This path then goes into a larger, walkable path, the more drains or small paths going into a path, the bigger it is, finally leading to a kind of channel that transports all the sewage away. The bigger paths then have sideways. (At some point, this chanell leaves the underground deploying its sewage into a river, but that is of no concern to the map.) I know that in real life sewers there are quite often shortcuts in order to be able to get to a special part of the sewer-system more quickly. In Jin Roh you can even see them, being smaller passages on a higher level (with dry floor) you have to go upstairs to reach them, whatever, that cuts down a bit the problem that any place should be able to be reached from two sides at least, so this should be no big trouble for gameplay.

So far, so good, now to the bases.

Let's say, the humans' base default location is at the end of the channel where there is an iron gate like this to keep unauthorized people out. This would make perfect "theme-sense" because the humans have just entered the sewers with the command to kill all these nasty creatures breeding in the sewers.

In general, it is an advantage for a human base to have a clear line of sight/aim, it is a disadvantage for a human base to be in an open location. This place combines both (like in Niveus), the only thing is that it cannot be reached from more than one side, this could be managed by letting a small drain flow into the channel near the iron gate where aliens can crouch through.

In the film, you have an explosion (caused by one of the characters, killing it), which would make a possible default location for the alien base, but I am not too happy with that because it actually is a the other side of the channell, making it cannon fodder for the humans. I would really like to put their base somewhere near the drains that go down from the houses, but they are on a quite high level making it too easy for aliens to just drop on human heads. Maybe I'll put a gooey construction somewhere in the sewers near a drain, suggesting that somebody dumped a manga into the toilet, where it was the breeding ground for some weird aliens when it reached the fertile fluids of the sewer However, I have no (good) idea where to put it, suggestions are welcome. I will definetely not put it into one of the passages connecting two bigger sewers, because any default base location must not be to good (to force people move their base), but not too bad as well, otherwise they will be dead in a second (as usually happening in Transit with unexperienced players in the human team).

A big map is considered a general advantage for the alien team (they do not have to go back to medistation, they do not have to recharge their weapons), maybe I could really try to put the alien team at the other end of the channel, altough I am not happy with the idea.

Other things that are to consider are that no place must be unreachable for human guns (at least, at stage2), and that no place where you could put a human base on must be unreachable for dragoons.

I hope I did everything moreless right until now, now a few technical questions:

- Is it possible to not open paths at stage2/stage3 but to close them?
- Is it possible to change a map in respect of the number of players in it, closing/opening paths if there are less then five players in one team or so?
- What about water? I have never seen it in a game. There is no need to actually swim or so, but I think it is possible to create special noises when walking on special surfaces, am I correct? Dry sewers aren't fun, you know.
- Is it possible to create the imagination of water drops spraying around when somebody walks over a water texture?

Okay, that's all for now, I hope to be able to create a map that does not smell like "Tremulous map #415" but like being in an untold part of the movie.

If I forgot anything really important, please tell me. I do not think that the actual mapping will be a big problem, I think that the planning of a map is more difficult. I am also going to create non-copyright-procteded textures that resemble the theme as good as possible, which may be the biggest challenge of all.

[Survivor]

Your thought process is nearly flawless. As for your alien base location, that is up to you. I suggest a filter location in a sewer as their breeding ground since it allows intheme arguments for creating something more friendly for an alien base.

As for your questions:
-Yes, you can close paths at stage 2 and 3.
-Not in current tremulous and no 1.2 changes as such given to me allow this.
-Yes, check out pulse, and in general any water shader for q3. Tremulous retains the sound of q3 except for the drowning sounds i believe. Setting your own sounds however is codewise and I can't really say much about it.
-Yes, but it will have to be done with a triggered particle system, it will not be exactly localized on the player's location and it will be hard to get right.

And you got the texture part right. For tremulous that is the biggest pain in the ass.

[ShadowNinjaDudeMan]

Scratch 'n' Sniff?

Anyways, you are pretty good at the thinking part. I know I dont think through my maps that much. Maybe it shows.
Sewers are cool, granted, but continuous trudging through cylinders of varying diameter may prove a bit repetitive.
You got to think of chambers of infernal muck, with pipes feeding into it, depositing their filth.

More variation is key.
And enviromental "weapons", eg. opening a valve to release a wall of water that pushes back the aliens that are snapping at your heels, giving you time to move sharpish. These need a huge amount of thought balance wise, since some weapons are mostly only effective at either aliens or humans, eg. the releasing the water is most useful for humans, because they need the aliens to be out of reach, whereas aliens need humans out of sight if they are not hunting them.

Setting the scene is also crucial for this map, you are creeping through desolate, horrible sewers, you need faint drip drip noises, and other stuff, faint running water, and even every now and then, faint screaming, as though far away in this echoey labyrinth.

Well there you go, just my $0.02

[zybork]

Thanks for the hint about more variation and those "environmental weapons", but I only want things in that map that are, well, real. If you would not have such a valve in real life, I would not include it in the map. A good point made is that "drip drip" sound. That may lead to interesting results.

Don't be afraid of a "boring" map, the underground sewer system is a quite interesting thing, also I am planning to do a great deal with light or, well, without it. Also, there are waterfalls in a sewer where someone or something could hide behind, stairs, high paths with handrails, also, the movie the thing will be based on offers some more possibilities: While "we are fighting aliens in the sewer", there is a riot going on in the streets above us, the rioters are organized and may have built secret depots in the sewer, whatever.

I am planning to create a pretty large map, but one with a quite logical structure where you know where to go from A to B without having to have run through it twenty times, but a map that also has some surprises. The difficult thing is to keep it balanced. Long straight ways should be an advantage for humans, but a big map is a disadvantage for humans, also, the map should be quite dark, offering the aliens another advantage. Maybe I can make the default human base tyrant-proof to hold balance again

I don't get this sound-thing, tough: What does ist mean that "setting sound is codewise" As far as I analyzed other maps or so, sounds are to be packed into the map-file, what does the word "code" mean here?

[Odin]

A map such as this, in my opinion, would be best for game engines that do dark environments well; for example, Doom 3. It's unified lighting and shadowing are perfect for dark rooms and halls. Having distant echoing sounds in the map as you describe is a supported feature in Doom 3, due to it pioneering surround sound in games.

Alas, Tremulous is not running on the Doom 3 engine and probably never will. So, you will have to make do with Quake 3's shader system and (albeit feature-lacking)sound system. Sharp shadows on lightmaps would add an eerie feel to them, and the use of lightstyles can be used for flickering lights(make sure you use an appropriate light_junior to fix the player lighting). You will have to modify the your chosen sounds for each use(adding echo for when it's supposed to sound far-away).

[Taiyo.uk]

You want pipe/channel prefabs? I started a map with some sewers a while ago but never got anywhere - I'll pm you a .map if you wish.

[Survivor]

I don't get this sound-thing, tough: What does ist mean that "setting sound is codewise" As far as I analyzed other maps or so, sounds are to be packed into the map-file, what does the word "code" mean here?

Surface sounds (walking) are done with code. Pointsounds are done with an entity.

[zybork]

Aha, I see, this is done by some scripts lurking in the pk3-archive. However, I first have to make a proper drafts before mastering the technical part, nevertheless, thank you for that information. Maybe that saved ma 20min getting mad about radiant not finding it there