What are really GOOD builders?

[The Crazie Coward]

Builders....builders......most of the people do not care how they build it, how they arrange it.....but only care if they put like a lone turret/tesla or ground eggs/tubes/trappers. How do i define GOOD?GOOD Builders is when the guy knows what formation for Turret placing (Half Semi-Circle against the entrance), where to place a tesla (behind a turret) in a strategic location instead of saying it sucks, where is the best location (in the whole map) to move the base to and in which Stage is the best for the moving, how to compact and protect the bases' important buildings(eg.  ). Lastly, good builders are those who devote their lives using the Construction Kit/Granger (no going out to fight) and helps to repair damaged buildings and stay together with the base till its last defence crumbles.

[Revan]

Lastly, good builders are those who devote their lives using the Construction Kit/Granger (no going out to fight) and helps to repair damaged buildings and stay together with the base till its last defence crumbles.

I have to admit I frequently get the base up, go out and attack and then maybe come back to build though I usualy forget

Also what do you think of the turret hallway idea? like this

<door to base here>
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
what do you think? on ATCSb it kept the rants out VERY well they couldn't get up on the ramp without being almost killed

[The Crazie Coward]

That idea is good for rushes but...rants can kil those rets 1 by 1 if they ever gets up there.

[jr2]

That idea is good for rushes but...rants can kil those rets 1 by 1 if they ever gets up there.

Which is what they do... darn them.  Or they get sniped.

[Dracone]

I always say sniping is a huge given. If you want to focus on anything in a base with S3 in mind, you worry about the rants and the players are the ones who should have the jobs of taking out those goons. I just don't like hearing, "it cn b sniped dude..." after building a great base that would take out rants easily.  What the hell? If you don't want the base to be sniped, handle that yourself. The actual human firepower is a hell of a lot greater than a couple turrets made to shut down snipers, and if you're missing turrets in your main base, an alien team with enough rants is a time bomb.

[Revan]

I always say sniping is a huge given. If you want to focus on anything in a base with S3 in mind, you worry about the rants and the players are the ones who should have the jobs of taking out those goons. I just don't like hearing, "it cn b sniped dude..." after building a great base that would take out rants easily.  What the hell? If you don't want the base to be sniped, handle that yourself. The actual human firepower is a hell of a lot greater than a couple turrets made to shut down snipers, and if you're missing turrets in your main base, an alien team with enough rants is a time bomb.

I agree with this a SINGLE fully charged luci shot will take down an advanced dragoon  couple chainguns (or pulse rifles) will hurt a goon so bad he will be crying in seconds

I might add that this would be best on... oh shit I forgot the map name, the one with the elevator human camp room plenty of bp and you would have rets + telsas for the top floors then do the ret corridor and stick telsas behind every turret, aliens HAVE to open the door and can only get 1-2 snipes before they are dead or the door closes
just my 2c

[Lava Croft]

Just for your information. Said 'good' builders are limited to 100 build points.

[Revan]

Just for your information. Said 'good' builders are limited to 100 build points.

Just for your information. Hope you have some very good players on your team to counter the alien tornados that come into the base during as3-hs2-SD

[Lava Croft]

Just for your information. Said 'good' builders are limited to 100 build points.

Just for your information. Hope you have some very good players on your team to counter the alien tornados that come into the base during as3-hs2-SD

What does that have to with anything? I merely stated that 'good' builders and 100+ build points are mutually exclusive. Good builders do with 100bp.

[Kriegsgott]

Once you get upwards of 120 bp many players simply turret/acid spam. For me, the trick to building decent bases relies on placement of trappers (aliens) or defeating rants and rc hops (humans). As Dracone said, sniping is a foregone conclusion.


I would add the comment that 102 bp should be the default, as it allows no extra build points with 2 nodes/3 eggs.

[Lava Croft]

100bp has been the default since forever, and is more than enough to build a proper base.

[Kriegsgott]

Naturally. I am merely stating 102 for efficiency.

[kevlarman]

Naturally. I am merely stating 102 for efficiency.

that only works assuming 2 nodes and no teslas, which are both bad assumptions.

[snb]

XD im the best builder on cheat maps because i just rc/om spam! XD

[Death On Ice]

Spam != Good

[mooseberry]

OMG I'm the best on cheat maps because even if they kill my base,  my God powers win.

[Kriegsgott]

that only works assuming 2 nodes and no teslas, which are both bad assumptions.

Teslas are build point hogs and are therefore usually a waste on standard maps.

One telenode is too easily gooned (if the defense is set up to prevent this, it almost always detracts from the rest of the layout) and three-plus nodes withdraw turrets on a one-for-one-plus-one basis. For myself, those are weaknesses too easily used against the human team.

On higher buildpoint maps, highly populated servers, and/or non standard maps there may be differences. I fail to grasp how those are poor assumptions in the context of this thread. Furthermore, 102 bps is my stated opinion and I am only one man. I doubt if there are enough people who care about adding "only 2 buildpoints" for it to matter.

[kevlarman]

that only works assuming 2 nodes and no teslas, which are both bad assumptions.

Teslas are build point hogs and are therefore usually a waste on standard maps.

not true, they cost 2bp more than turrets, and the dcc is often worth the build points by itself to make turrets less dumb.

[Revan]

Just for your information. Said 'good' builders are limited to 100 build points.

Just for your information. Hope you have some very good players on your team to counter the alien tornados that come into the base during as3-hs2-SD

What does that have to with anything? I merely stated that 'good' builders and 100+ build points are mutually exclusive. Good builders do with 100bp.

I guess you are starting to dislike me huh?

anyway..., I was merely stating that a 100bp base is not a very good defense against rants etc. And you need some good players with chains / lucis / pulses in the base

[Geni3]

in a good base, you have plenty of fire power for rants, (7 turrets, all firing, assuming 2 nodes, arm and medi)

its the advanced goons that are the problem.

[Dracone]

It is very often necessary to have a combination of goons and rants. Often times, humans will fuck the goons over and take snipes for the buildings as well as dishing out some heavy firepower on the goons at the same time, making the goons pretty much worthless. This is when the humans' excellent taking care of the goons can turn against them, because if the humans are doing such a good job against the goons, rants have an opening themselves. A rant runs in, kills a ret or two, and the humans may fall behind the goons too much, leaving them open for a snipe or maybe many snipes. And more often than not, one snipe ends up being all that's really needed for end game.

[Valour250]

ok about the goons no matter where the fuck u build goons will always snipe, either it will be easy or hard for them but they will do it if they are ok at it......

oo i have a nomination 4 a good builder i nominate crazy for his absolute dedication to building most games...

any more nominations?

[ChaosSquirrel]

Quit Tesla hating. They can save the game in many situations. E.G. when the aliens have slammed the turrets. Then the teslas arc over and blast them. They're a bit too easy to snipe, though. However, a key component of the human base which is commonly neglected is a DC. It helps the turrets protect much better against dretchstorms (MY FACE! MY FACE!!!) and can save the day in a pinch. Also, teslas are a pinch tougher, and hit hard.

[blood2.0]

the best builder also has binds to alert the team that there is a basi on the reactor and also has binds to quickly buy weapons to kill that basi on the reactor. Also that invisible base does NOT exist the best base takes a long time to kill prevents reactor jumps most importantly ALLOWS YOUR TEAMMATES IN TO IT! also camping in your base will not keep your base alive for ever SD will come and the aliens will get so sick of waiting for you to come out they will suicide rush killing your arm turrets and reactor until you have nothing left besides one node with a rant camping in front of it.  Make a good base that will last longer then the aliens and attack base and win the game.

[Revan]

What about the classical game where the aliens have one very good/lucky dretch and get s3 very fast?
Its hard to kill the enemy base when they have weapons far more powerful than you.

[ChaosSquirrel]

The good builders can force their opponents to decide between two equally viable targets, hopefully slowing them long enough to soften them.

[Revan]

The good builders can force their opponents to decide between two equally viable targets, hopefully slowing them long enough to soften them.

Yes I agree this has killed me many a time trying to break the enemy base.

[Lava Croft]

Good builders divert the attacker's attention from the base structurers to the builder itself, so the base can nicely do it's damaging purpose.

[Dracone]

What about the classical game where the aliens have one very good/lucky dretch and get s3 very fast?
Its hard to kill the enemy base when they have weapons far more powerful than you.

See, this is where strategy comes in. S1 can come back and beat S3. It's just highly improbable. But IF the aliens aren't coordinating, which may or may not be true because they owned to S3 so hard, groups of humans have chances of pulling something off, bit by bit. It's unlikely they will, but then again, you really won't see that kind of human coordination in a public game so long as people are so scared of tyrants.

Good builders divert the attacker's attention from the base structurers to the builder itself, so the base can nicely do it's damaging purpose.

Now that many servers have locational goon barb damage (headshots, body shots, leg shots for snipes), or in some servers, GREATLY reduced snipe damage, there is another use for humans--throw yourself in the way of snipes to save your base. Even at servers where that will hurt you a lot, it's better you die than you lose a turret. Doesn't take as long to respawn as it does to let a turret blow up or decon it and build a new one, in most cases. About two turrets is sometimes all it takes for a rant rush to come in and finish the job. However, if you know there's only that one sniper posing a threat, he should be dead in seconds.

Rants are not the initial major danger to your base unless you give them a clear initial opening. Snipers are, because they poke a hole in the seal on said opening, and give tyrants the opportunity they need to run on through.

[Lava Croft]

Catching barbs is a technique that is as old as the barbs themselves, yawn.