Author Topic: Destruction (as opposed to killing), and how to display it  (Read 5777 times)

player1

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Destruction (as opposed to killing), and how to display it
« on: February 03, 2008, 03:27:09 pm »
//Slightly Offtopic

Tremulous needs an "official" definition for killwhore. I don't know how many times I've been called a killwhore just because I had a high amount of kills.
Exactly. Doesnt matter how many eggs you've killed, or any structures. At the end of the game theres always someone...

//Slightly Offtopic

Tremulous needs an "official" definition for killwhore. I don't know how many times I've been called a killwhore just because I had a high amount of kills.

I would say a definition would be someone who goes out, to kill only. Not attack the other base. Sometimes its hard to tell, if some just get sidetracked on the way and have to return for health.

Another note is, I don't think it should ever be used before stage 3. Killing a lot in stages 1 and 2 have a goal in themselves.

I have quoted the above players entirely out of context, and quite without their foreknowledge to illustrate a point. Even long-time players of Tremulous (in my estimation three good players who know the game well), still feel that the scoring system doesn't show pesky whiners all the structures you've destroyed, it only shows how many kills you contributed towards their having a better gun or trying a cooler class.

If I remember the Q3a scoreboard, there was a space on it for "badges" or "medals". Taking aside the possibility of have them float over your avatar, what if we just utilize this feature to show four different kinds of structure destruction? I have mentioned similar ideas in two other threads, but in this discussion I'd just like to talk about having structure destruction icons appear on the scoreboard.

As far as I can see there are four major kinds of destruction (from middling to major), and one really important playerkill:

Name: Type (Icon)

Basic Structure Destruction: Defenses and Barriers (Rook)

Resupply Structure Destruction: Armoury/Booster (Knight)

Main Structure Destruction: Reactor/Overmind (Bishop)

Spawn Structure Destruction: Telenode/Egg (Queen)

Game Won By: for killing Last Man Standing on Losing Team (King)

If five extremely narrow columns were added to the scoreboard, way to the right of the display, St. Anger (for instance) could have a rook with a 3 on it (showing he took out three turrets), a bishop with a 2 on it (showing that he took out the reac twice), a queen with a 4 on it (meaning that he took out a total of 4 telenodes over the course of the entire game), and a king (showing that he took out PlayerOne, who was the Last Man Standing on the other team). It would also show, to the left of all this, 147 kills, 35 minutes, ping=135. Since, in this example, St. Anger is playing on Alien team, the icons would appear in red with black numbers on the scoreboard.

If you were to look at the Human side, PlayerOne (for instance), might have taken down one acid tube and gotten a booster also (as well as about 4 to 12 kills) in that same thirty-five minutes (ping somewhere between 95 and 190). My scoreboard line would be a paltry 4 kills, followed by a 34 (cuz I'm a slow-joiner) minutes for playing time, followed by a 63 (because it lies, it lies!) for my ping, followed by a rook with a white "1" on it (for that one acid tube), and a knight with a white "1" on it also (for taking out their booster). I'd also have a king with a big white "X" on it, for being the last person on my team to die.

Then everyone on the server could see that St. Anger was base-raping as well as killing everything in sight. And that I am a camping noob who occasionally does something useful at the wrong time all by myself. But that's an entirely different thread.

Structure Destruction Icons for the scoreboard?

Hope you like it. Cheers!

P.S. If you wanted to get fancy and add a sixth column, you could add a "pawn" icon for the stageup kills for S2 & 3. Each team would have two pawns shown in the final display, with a Roman numeral denoting which stage they brought on (yes, that column with have to be two pawns wide, just in case someone gets both of the stageup kills on one team). The players who died would not be singled out, as in the king example, as there is not enough room to display all of that information. You could very neatly see who destroyed what at the end of the game, as well as who got the stageup kills, who got the winning kill, and who was the losing team's last man (or beast) alive.

Major Assist(s): for getting the Stage Counter Advance kill(s) for either S2 [II] or S3 [III] (Pawn)

PlayerOne has time on his hands this week  :D :P :laugh:

edit'd of course, becuz i am a relentless proofreader (zumtimez)


Plague

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Re: Destruction (as opposed to killing), and how to display it
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2008, 04:53:43 pm »
I'm reasonably certain the developers, including those from the community, have far more important changes in view than working on a patch to vindicate a player from (rather common, and often harmless) claims of 'kill-whoring'.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2008, 04:56:10 pm by Plague »

player1

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Re: Ideas are free
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2008, 05:44:31 pm »
Ideas come to me and I toss 'em out there. Very few, if any, ever get made into anything, but you'd be surprised. :o

Once I thought up the craziest weapon mod I could come up with, just to see how overboard I could go; for Unreal1. It got made (quadmode tribow), as well as more mundane ones that were also spurious and silly (quadshot automags). Since I can't, won't or don't make 'em, all I can do is suggest 'em. Sometimes somebody with the time and skills thinks part of the idea is nifty and actually builds the thing. :P

I'm not saying anyone should make this, or that it's a grave necessity, I'm just saying, "Hrm, ppl still complain about this, I've got some spare time, what if someone tried...?" This isn't some sort of demand that the devs or the community immediately implement my suggestion. It's more like: Hey, is this useful and how would you change it? :) :-\

Also, Plague, I'm not just talking about players crying about killwhoring. After half an hour to an hour of playing with temporary teammates, I'd like to be able to slap them on their virtual backs for stuff they accomplished when I wasn't looking. Along with silencing the whiners (can we ever really silence the whiners? new ones are born every minute) comes enabling the camaraderie and empowering players to realize just how good their erstwhile round-mates were. It's all about community, or so I keep hearing. What naysayers never seem to understand is that silly ideas are freeware also. You're free to do anything you like with the idea, as well as deride it. Thanks for playing. ;D

P.S. I'm reasonably certain that your certainty is reasonable. ;) I'm sure they have entire lists of things to do, possibly even posted right here on this very forum. :D

Cheers! :laugh:

edit'd for em :'( -tasticness

Rocinante

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Re: Ideas are free
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2008, 05:55:58 pm »
Ideas come to me and I toss 'em out there. Very few, if any, ever get made into anything, but you'd be surprised. :o

You'd be amazed (Maybe not P1, but others reading) how helpful a well thought out idea can be to a programmer.  Good game design takes someone with an idea, someone who can program the idea and someone who can test it for balance and usefulness.  Sometimes those people are combined, but not always - so a person with ideas can be just as valued and valuable as the person who programs them and the people that playtest them.
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player1

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Re: Time, and How to Kill It
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2008, 06:00:13 pm »
ppl seemed to be talking about it in a couple of different places: long-time, good players that i know or know of, as well as other ppl talking about implemeting both changes to the scoreboard and a way to rate or vouch for builders

i was thinking of a way to distinguish the killers from the destroyers, and also show some statistics about the one objective of the game that isn't seen anywhere on the scoreboard: basekilling (if players get some sort of perceived virtual cookie for taking down more structures, perhaps they'll be drawn into trying it)

the linky-words in the first post will take you to most of these discussions, the TSME one is everywhere now

PlayerOne has time on his hands this week

Shadowgandor

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Re: Destruction (as opposed to killing), and how to display it
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2008, 06:37:35 pm »
I would love this kind of system. Great work thinking this out player

player1

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Aww shucks, tweren't nothin'...
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2008, 06:43:05 pm »
possible icons here

The Inevitable List of Groovy Names (mostly cribbed from that other thread)

Striker - basic structure destruction
Destroyer - resupply structure destruction
Dreadnaught - main structure destruction
Basekiller - spawn structure destruction
Champion - stageup kill(s) (to Stage II +/or III)
Conqueror - winning kill of LMS* on losers

*LMS - last man standing



Bajsefar

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Re: Destruction (as opposed to killing), and how to display it
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2008, 11:08:32 pm »
What about more themed medal icons?

Edit:Juz a quickie in paint lolz, no good icon material.
Double edit:names for ranks could be for example: Demolisher or Deconstructor. Or maybe ravager or whatever you associate with destroying, not nessecarily killing stuff.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2008, 11:13:45 pm by Bajsefar »

player1

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Nice!
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2008, 12:36:31 am »
I like it! I just happened to go with chess, because you could kind of "rank" the importance of certain objectives (pawn/rook/knight/bishop/queen/king::stagekills/defenses/resupply/powerbase/spawns/lastplayer), but anything that makes sense and gets players excited about destroying structures sounds great to me. Please make more, if you feel so inclined.

And the names, too. Good stuff! Here's a few more: Vandal, Homewrecker, Devastator, Iconoclast, Idolsmasher, Saboteur, Kingmaker, Herokiller, Chessmaster, Nomad, Vagabond, Barbarian, Freebooter, Grinder, Sinner, Exciter, Ripper, Creeper, Powerman, Nihilist, Despoiler, Ruinator, Inquisitor, Deathbringer, Spawnender, Hillking, Highking, Assassin, and my new favorite, Dynamitard (sounds like a heavy metal show). You could also go all Baroque Chess on it: Pincer, Coordinator, Immobilizer, Leaper, Imitator, Chameleon, Withdrawer, Swapper, Resurrector, Advancer, Cannonball, etc.

UniqPhoeniX

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Re: Destruction (as opposed to killing), and how to display it
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2008, 08:33:39 pm »
That's a lot of names  :o
I definitely support this idea, but we could go even further
I don't think that many would be needed tho for 1 game/match. What if we could have (optionally of course) our GUIDs linked to this forum? And get scores from trusted servers (and having a chance to later filter out servers which sent false stats) so we could also see how good we are with some class/weapon compared to others and the best, get medals and ranks like this. This would definitely not be finished by 1.2 as it needs lots of balancing, but the code required could be added. And it gives the possibility to stop tremulous terrorists who got static ip
 :laugh:

player1

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Re: Destruction (as opposed to killing), and how to display it
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2008, 08:50:29 pm »
I think SST already has something very like what you describe.

The names would definitely not all be needed, only about 3 to 7 of them, I was just having a thesaurus moment.

Thanks for your support.

As for GUID-linking, etc., that is far beyond the scope and intent of this thread/idea/proposal, for now what I am most interested in is reviving the Q3a medals, and using them in Tremulous to call attention to certain aspects of the game which seemed neglected by the current scoreboard display.

Thanks for your comments.

Cheers!