Alien level 2: Almost useless

[Paradox]

Alien level 2 really is useless except for the buildings. Humans get a giant upgrade, while aliens get 2 new aliens. Personally, i think that adv goon should be level 2.

[[HUN]N.M.I.]

And I think that Adv. Marauders are very good S2 aliens. They're hard to kill because of the continuous jumping ability and has a lightning attack. A few pro players can level with them a S2 Human base.

[next_ghost]

Aliens are not useless on stage 2, it's just humans get all base raid equipment they need (jetpack, helmet, pulse rifle) and aliens still lack some ranged attack. Yes, advanced granger can spit but that's useful in defense, not offense. Attacking granger dies within seconds.

[Survivor]

N.M.I."]And I think that Adv. Marauders are very good S2 aliens. They're hard to kill because of the continuous jumping ability and has a lightning attack. A few pro players can level with them a S2 Human base.

Normal marauders can own stage 2 human bases, most often the inside isn't even covered and all it takes is 2 or 3 of them. (pro marauder :p)

[Catalyc]

Advanced Marauder is one of the most dangerous base attacking classes, you have no idea how many games I've ended just bouncing like madman while taking out telenodes and the armoury, infact, one of the hardest thing to consider in human base building is having good defense on the entrances while keeping the important buildings marauder safe .

Oh and zap isn't really an effective attack, I choose adv mara 'cause it has a bit of more health, faster slashing and more range.

Honestly I think the problem with balance is because of pulse rifle, which should be moved to Stage3.

[PHREAK]

Adv Goon should be S2 and Pulse rifle S3. It would create a lot more balance . Right now, it can be a lot harder for aliens to win as opposed to humans.
Advanced Marauder is my new favorite aliens due to the lightning. it's great against turrets and even teslas, allowing bigger aliens to infiltrate the H base.
Faster slashing is great against no-suited humans.

[Paradox]

Yes, level 2 alien is not useless, but the humans get such a boost, that it seems useless. This is what i would like changed. Have the pulserifle moved to S3, and have the flame thrower do less to aliens, and possibly overheat, so it could beep like the lcannon, and if the human uses it when it is cooling, it explodes, doing 90% damage, or outright killing an unarmored player. Too much have i seen someone just spam the gun, not doing anything.

[Cataclaw]

I would do one of the following:

a. Make adv basilisk non-useless

-or-

b. move adv goon to s2

[Vector_Matt]

Or, (dramatic music) have an advanced dretch in s2 that has more health, controlable main attack and a ranged attack (probably trapper spit).

[Cataclaw]

Before we start adding more classes, which the game does not need, I think the advanced basilisk should be overhauled.

[KorJax]

Adv. Basalisks are fine.

The problem is that poison is pointless in most games because any sort of armor magically makes poison not work


Heres how it should go.

Basalisk's Gas Attack poisons every enemy that has no helmit.

However, if you wear a helmit and you get gassed, you STILL GET POISONED, but the effect wears off quicker or on its own overtime, unlike those who have no helmit on, where it constantly poisons you untill you heal.

Bsuits cannot get gassed.

However, a booster attack should poison ALL HUMANS no matter what.  Humans with no armor on get full blown poison.  Humans with armor on and even with a helmit will still get poisioned full by a booster (right now all poison effects, even booster slashes, dont do anything on helmit wearers).  A Bsuit will ALSO GET POISONED, but the effect will be very small and only last for  several seconds before it wears off autmatically.

You could also have it so the more armor you put on a human, the more it negates the poison slash from a booster, but it cannot be fully negated.

Adv Maradur should have it so just firing within a small cone will launch an electric attack, not just the "point" where you have to aim it exactly.

[benplaut]

the game is already pretty balanced, just not all at the same time...

sure, humans own in s2, but aliens will still win if humans can't find them before a tyrant or 2 is born  :roll:

[SLAVE|Mietz]

Adv. Basalisks are fine.

The problem is that poison is pointless in most games because any sort of armor magically makes poison not work


Heres how it should go.

Basalisk's Gas Attack poisons every enemy that has no helmit.

However, if you wear a helmit and you get gassed, you STILL GET POISONED, but the effect wears off quicker or on its own overtime, unlike those who have no helmit on, where it constantly poisons you untill you heal.

Bsuits cannot get gassed.

However, a booster attack should poison ALL HUMANS no matter what.  Humans with no armor on get full blown poison.  Humans with armor on and even with a helmit will still get poisioned full by a booster (right now all poison effects, even booster slashes, dont do anything on helmit wearers).  A Bsuit will ALSO GET POISONED, but the effect will be very small and only last for  several seconds before it wears off autmatically.

You could also have it so the more armor you put on a human, the more it negates the poison slash from a booster, but it cannot be fully negated.

Adv Maradur should have it so just firing within a small cone will launch an electric attack, not just the "point" where you have to aim it exactly.

Helmet is canceling poison? I don't think so...could be wrong anyways.
I think the Bsuit is allso getting poisoned at this time.

And Adv. basi gas also is triggered with helmet, you just have to aim it i think.

[hodge]

Alien s2 useless? Not really, the aliens get a good builder upgrade with adv granger and get a minor attacker upgrade with  adv bal and adv marauder(sp) so it reallly isn't that useless. The idea of tremulous is that aliens start of weak with only basic grangers and drenches but will eventually earn adv goons and tyrants if the humans fail to work together and destroy the alien base.

[Teiman]

Adv Granger is very usefull. I always rebuild the alien base with S2, to place acid on better locations and other minor human anoyances.

[Paradox]

The humans dont get a very good building upgrade, all that becomes avalible is a dc, and a repeater. The aliens get a few more, but the aliens offense is awful useless.

[KorJax]

From experience, all humans with a helmit or a bsuit dont get poisoned no matter what, which is kinda lame.

I can understnad the helmit stopping some of the GAS poison (not all), but it shouldnt completely block all poison, unless the price is raised from 90 credits (which is way to little) to around 200 (which is more apropreate for its abilities of RADAR, no poison, and multiple HS required to kill)

[werepants]

i'm in big favor of making the basilisk gas hit all players, and poison hit bsuits.  that would make both lower classes more useful in s2 and s3.  A "spread" for the maurauder lightning would be good.  another thing - it should go through railing.  i was on niveus(I think) and sitting just below/next to a human and the lightning would not hit him, even though i fired 3 times exactly in the center of his torso.  pulse rifle does seem a bit overpowered for s2 also.  flamers are irritating always, but esp in s2.

[BabyAlien]

I don't know how many people are with me on this belief, but it seems that one major source of 'lack of balance' is how challenging aliens are to play.  

In S2, aliens get the advanced marauder.  Personally I find the marauder almost impossible to kill with.  I have no trouble bouncing all over and avoiding fire, but actually killing is something else.   I have yet to do something constructive with the electricity.  The same goes for basilisk the basilisk is too slow and I'm afraid of getting killed.  I find the dretch is much easier to kill with.

Ultimately, once you have a team of skilled players who can play the full range of options, then the balance gets better.  This is supported by all of the posts about balance issues that basically say 'learn the game better'.  However, a key issue of playability is to avoid making it too hard to learn.

I see two immediate options for the aliens...

1. Make the range of skills required less.  So, get rid of basilisk and make   two extra versions of the dretch with more hit points and some add-on abilities.  That way the basic skills stay the same.  Also (at least) make the electricity for marauder easier to hit something with.

2.  Make a training map for aliens so you can practice the full range of skills required to be able to play aliens.  Humans are simple, point and shoot.  Aliens require totally new skills for each type of alien.

[Neo]

Marauder just needs practice, took me a few days to get it down when I started playing. Now I can get the standard 2 hit kill of 1 to the head and 1 anywhere else, and humans have trouble hitting you. Also stick to low ping servers as lag screws aliens up big time.

I agree however on Adv Basilisk, as it is the least played alien by far.

[Survivor]

Marauder needs some training yes. Basilisk needs even more and is still vulnerable yes. They have equal skill requirements as the humans, it's just that aliens is radically different from any other fps unlike humans.
That's why certain players own at aliens. Most new players are afraid of playing it. Generally I agree with the mentioned order of Humans > Aliens > Building > advanced human tactics > advanced alien tactics > 1337 player

2. Make a training map for aliens so you can practice the full range of skills required to be able to play aliens. Humans are simple, point and shoot. Aliens require totally new skills for each type of alien.

I would be willing to do this if it was possible to make a moving target, as that is what aliens have the most trouble with. For now though I don't see an option for this.

[WolfWings ShadowFlight]

I would do one of the following:

a. Make adv basilisk non-useless

-or-

b. move adv goon to s2

Advanced Basilisk honestly should be Stage 1 IMHO. Right now, they're larger, so they're easier to hit, cost twice as much, but are NOT twice as durable even just on raw hit points. And the only added attack they get is Poison, which is blocked by Helmets (which everyone gets due to the insanely high headshot damage) which humans get at S2 as well. I think moving Advanced Basilisks to S1 would make it non-useless quite well and give aliens a more useful S1 attack.

Seperately, I think Headshot/Legshot multipliers are too big a damn spread, to the point that I've tested and I survive much better with JUST a helmet than I do with just light armor. I don't disagree with double damage for a headshot, but right now compared to a legshot, which is what most moderate-level aliens will get with Dretch and Basilisk, a headshot is QUAD damage compared to a leg shot. Perhaps compact the values to 0.750/1.000/1.500 so there's a 2:1 spread, while still having a largish multiplier on headshots. That would moderately reduce the need for a helmet, weakening the raw potency of human S2 a fraction as well.

[charmed]

Meh some people should play more and whine less. You shouldnt complain so much untill you can deliver

Well my opinion is

S1: Alien > Human
S2: Human (thanks to helmet ) > Alien
S3: Is kinda equal with a little overweight to Alien

That's the way it should be since it addes a more strategic depth than equal strong race on each stage so only player skill decides.

During s2 advance maras is kickass 75% of the times i rather go adv mara than adv goon. The only times adv goon might be usefull is sniping out defcomputers or other vulnerable buildings. Otherwise tyrant/advmara is the way to go.

Adv basilisk is useless- serious. 98/100 it's better so spend thoose evo points on a mara.

But the building changes alien gets during s2 outweighs most of the human advantage. Since it's easy to camp a acidroof spammed base untill s3.

Kinda.. and stfu and die

[KorJax]

Its still unbalanced though.

The only reason why you might consider Aliens equal to Humans if both are at S3 is because Tyrants completly own alot of things, despite the fact they die in 1-2 hits from a lucy or against 3-4 turrets.

The main reason its unbalanced is because all lower evolutions are literally useless in S3, and pretty much only the high-evo players can continue on for the team.

However, the Bsuit ONLY costs around 400, and the helmit+armor is also EXREMELY cheap for its uslefullness.

Face it, humans technically have an advantage at S2+S3.  If everything was MUCH more expensive, that would make sense.  Right now its dirt cheap though compaired to the benefits.  Pretty much all alien attacks are usless against Bsuits unjless your a high evo, and i tested that it takes around 10 torso hits by a dretch/basalisk/mara to kill ONE bsuit, and for waht?  400 Credits?  I dont think so.

Personally a quick fix should be that the Bsuit should be around 600-700 credits, and the lucy at 500 credits.

[Survivor]

This isn't a 1 vs 1 game, there's a toll for dying and that's losing your points/creds thus reducing your potential. It makes you think before you do something instead of running out and dying.
Same way that people who fall to far behind have problems. People shouldn't evolve to tyrant, get killed because of stupid tactics and then whine about the balance; dretches shouldn't attack battlesuits! You don't place your worst class against the enemy's best. Pick your targets wisely and call for help if you're outmatched. Trem's a team game.

[werepants]

i think the biggest problem is the lower alien classes.  dretch needs to be better at s3.  a team of newly spawned humans can take down a goon, tyrant, or whatever with their rifles, as long as they cooperate.  whereas I have seen a battlesuit kill 10 dretches in a row without having to recharge.  also, charmed had a good point - i can think of hardly any circumstances that it would be better to invest in a adv. basilisk than a marauder.  a marauder or two can take down a base, whereas a basilisk can take out an unarmored human traveling by himself... maybe.

[Survivor]

Funny comment. Adv basilisk once saved the day believe it or not. Humans were camping in elevator room: reactor, defense comp and spawns up high. Vent protected by a tesla. Entered as an advance basilisk through vent, no significant damage. Proceded to take out the def comp, spawns and lastly reactor winning the game.
Funny thing is you can take out a reactor near a wall without any damage as a basilisk because of the wallwalk.

[Lava Croft]

Alien level 2 really is useless except for the buildings.

Adv. Mara is like the best class in the game...

[Catalyc]

Indeed, the only thing an adv marauder should be afraid of is a wall of 3+ tesla, or a couple of humans with flamers :evil:

[Stof]

Indeed, the only thing an adv marauder should be afraid of is a wall of 3+ tesla, or a couple of humans with flamers :evilW:

Wait until you meet my friend the Shotgun