Alien level 2: Almost useless

[benplaut]

Its still unbalanced though.

The only reason why you might consider Aliens equal to Humans if both are at S3 is because Tyrants completly own alot of things, despite the fact they die in 1-2 hits from a lucy or against 3-4 turrets.

The main reason its unbalanced is because all lower evolutions are literally useless in S3, and pretty much only the high-evo players can continue on for the team.

However, the Bsuit ONLY costs around 400, and the helmit+armor is also EXREMELY cheap for its uslefullness.

Face it, humans technically have an advantage at S2+S3.  If everything was MUCH more expensive, that would make sense.  Right now its dirt cheap though compaired to the benefits.  Pretty much all alien attacks are usless against Bsuits unjless your a high evo, and i tested that it takes around 10 torso hits by a dretch/basalisk/mara to kill ONE bsuit, and for waht?  400 Credits?  I dont think so.

Personally a quick fix should be that the Bsuit should be around 600-700 credits, and the lucy at 500 credits.

I agree, humans and aliens are not equal.  I agree, lower evo are useless at higher levels. I don't agree with the rest, because of an important point (brought up by others, for that matter) -- you don't play the game the same way on each side.

If aliens want to win, they have to attack with a few  adv goons and tyrants. If humans want to win, they have to do it before the aliens get those high evos.

A human with bsuit and luci is sitll going to be defeated by a tyrant, it only by alot of teamwork and a good base that humans can win.

Aliens require alot of strategy, and alot of times do win against an equally skilled human team, it just requires good planning.

Humans have better toys, aliens are better 'by design'

Cheers
 

[PHREAK]

I've played a few games today on both sides and 90% of them ended the same...Humans won in S2. If Aliens got to s3 it was an A game (except for one, where humans were slaughtered, and managed to overturn later on)

The biggest problem is the pulse rifle. Pulse at s2 and a decent human team will take the game, regardles how good the alien team is.
All it would take to balance out the game is move the pulse rifle to S3 and make it at least 500 points. Flamer should be more expansive as well since anything smaller then a goon will get fried.
Since all maps are made up of corridors and rooms, they are natuarly human biased. I'd love to see the outcome on an outdoor, wide open map. Tables would turn, my friends.

[raf]

lol, i dont think open maps would do any good to aliens...
humans do have long range weapons, aliens dont


on topic:
to really see if the game is balanced you'll need to have more _good_ players on there, as long as 30% of the ppl playing don't understand the game you can't hardly say anything relevant about balance

[[HUN]N.M.I.]

Agreed with the post above.
We still see Human and Alien wins on the same maps, over and over again. So it's not (that) unbalanced. Depends on the team and the (lack of) teamwork.

NOTE: Because of the ranged weaponry, I do think that Humans are the number ones. Why? Imagine a Sudden Death where a small coordinated team rushes to the Alien base and throws 3-4 grenades on the OverMind.
Or imagine a small squad (let's say 4-6 Human players) equipped with Flamers and Pulse Rifles - watching each other's back.
If a Human team loses, it's mainly because the uncoordinated attacks and movement.

[Moofed]

N.M.I."]Imagine a Sudden Death where a small coordinated team rushes to the Alien base and throws 3-4 grenades on the OverMind.

An idea stolen from Gloom:  Let basilisks swallow grenades, sacrificing themselves in the process.  The grenade is the one thing that is unstoppable once dropped, creating the above situation.  This is a (somewhat costly) way to stop them.

[PHREAK]

Sure, teamwork is important....for humans. What happens when tyrants rush and a few dretches decide to "support" them. You end up with a couple of dead tyrants. Humans have the advantage of assult. While aliens are great for around-the-corner-hied-and-attack they are not really good when it comes to attacking anything but a dude with a stock rifle.
I'm not saying that poor aliens don't stand a chance, but fact is, humans are better off at any stage.
Once again, move Pulse to S3 and make the flamer more expansive and it'll be as balanced as it gets without changing the feel of the game.

[next_ghost]

This isn't a 1 vs 1 game, there's a toll for dying and that's losing your points/creds thus reducing your potential. It makes you think before you do something instead of running out and dying.
Same way that people who fall to far behind have problems. People shouldn't evolve to tyrant, get killed because of stupid tactics and then whine about the balance; dretches shouldn't attack battlesuits! You don't place your worst class against the enemy's best. Pick your targets wisely and call for help if you're outmatched. Trem's a team game.

You're not serious, are you? Most of the time, you'll see many humans with battlesuits and a few egghunters with armor, helmet and jetpack and aliens with dretches! If you see stage3 human with no armor, he has most likely connected a few minutes ago. In order to get higher evo class, you need to kill humans (unless you want to stay hidden for 8 minutes and let humans fry your base) and in order to do that, you need higher evo class. Very easy, isn't it? :roll:

make it at least 500 points. Flamer should be more expansive as well since anything smaller then a goon will get fried.

You can kill flamer with marauder if he's alone and far enough from his base. Just attack, regen, attack, regen... And when he tries to flee, finnish him.

[Neo]

For attacking a flamer the best tactic is to lure him as he'll keep flaming and damage himself more than you ever will.

The thing with endgame in S3, is that either side has an obvious advantage: Humans normally get it long before aliens and aliens eventually get tyrants and adv goons. But it isn't favored in either way as skill and teamwork will win through, ie. goons and marauders against bsuits and if humans manage to break the s3 tyrant rush the game is theirs.

[SLAVE|Mietz]

a PERFECT example against that S2 aliens are useless was the game yesterday were we ruled S3 Humans with adv. mara, even though H-team was not noob and was standing their ground, and their base-location was chosen well.

[b0rsuk]

Marauder zap is good only against stationary targets/multiple buildings. Jetpackers count as stationary.

The zap could use some work:
- If I hit someone with zap, and then another human comes close to zapped human, the zap doesn't spread. It should - I mean, with each 'tick', if the zap is zapping someone, it should check for secondary targets.
- I'd love the zap to work a bit like flamethrower - that is, work for each moment you keep an enemy in crosshairs, but you should be able to break the chain and continue zapping immediately afterwards (with the same zap).

[werepants]

I'd love the zap to work a bit like flamethrower - that is, work for each moment you keep an enemy in crosshairs, but you should be able to break the chain and continue zapping immediately afterwards (with the same zap).

I'd have to disagree.  One of the saving graces of the zap is that it stays connected after you look away.  As it is, the marauder zap is so difficult to connect with that it is rarely a better choice than the slash.  If it broke as soon as you look away, I would stop using it altogether.

It seems like it is way easier for humans to go up stages.  We had 20+ collective kills on alien team and humans had about the same, but we were s2 and they s3.  Surprisingly, they didn't have the followthrough to kill us until we did get to s3, but that waiting time really hurt us.  The lucy is so overpowered it is ridiculous.  It needs to be more like the flamethrower, and be very hazardous to the wielder.  It pisses me off when some guy can shoot his feet repeatedly with the lucy and kill any dretch that comes close.

pulse rifle should be an s3 weapon, for sure.

[Stof]

Pulse rifle is fine as it is. It's the only weapon with enouth ammo that you can use it both as a base killer and a fighting tool without having to run back to an armory every 2 kills. That and the painsaw of course but that weapon lacks a lot on the alien killing part against non noob level aliens

[benplaut]

i wonder how much it would change the game if all adv evos were the same price as their non-adv brothers...

[[HUN]N.M.I.]

Then what would be the point of having Normal and Advanced form?
It's the same bullshit as the 'remove the Stages' idea...

[BabyAlien]

Perhaps instead the alien evo points should be changed to 20 instead of 9 and then the cost of evos could be tweaked in a more fine-grained manner.  For example, tyrant could be 10 points, mara 4, adv. mara 5.

[DrGratis]

Alien level 2 really is useless except for the buildings. Humans get a giant upgrade, while aliens get 2 new aliens. Personally, i think that adv goon should be level 2.

Yeah that it really true except that the "buildings" are trapper, and booster!

BOOOSTER!
That one building means all aliens can get damage over time...

That usually gives me all I need to rack up dretch kills...

Plus the adv granger gets to climb walls so the base gets much stronger...

[Paradox]

How about the level 2 granger having the ability to "self distruct" The granger could run into a human base, and then explode in acid, hurting and poisioning humans, and damaging structures. This is a way the grenade could be countered.

[WolfWings ShadowFlight]

Actually... odd idea just bubbled up.

S3 Boosted Dretch: (Note this isn't an evolution. Just an added effect of the Booster in S3, perhaps one that only lasts for the first half of the Boosted state) Makes a cloud of lasting acid on death that (in effect) wouldn't do much to even annoy humans, but can do damage to a group of three or more buildings faster than one construction kit can repair it. I.E. Specifically aim the damage to be just over one third of the repair rate of an advanced construction kit. So no, Dretches may not be able to get kills, but they can gain a way to assault the human base itself and let the other aliens in.

[BabyAlien]

Interesting!

I can imagine the entire alien team going dretch and running in.  One cloud of acid might just bug a human but wave after wave of clouds?  If the aliens have the humans somewhat penned, it wouldn't be too tough to have an egg and booster by their base and a swarm of boosted dretches might be able to decimate the base.  

Sounds like a lot of fun  would the dretch who produced the cloud get evo points?

EricTheRed was melted by BabyAlientheDretch's acid cloud.

I suppose this would require a dretch to be able to get close enough to a building of course, which can be impossible with turrets.   Timing it with a tyrant run might work..

[WolfWings ShadowFlight]

Interesting!

I can imagine the entire alien team going dretch and running in.  One cloud of acid might just bug a human but wave after wave of clouds?  If the aliens have the humans somewhat penned, it wouldn't be too tough to have an egg and booster by their base and a swarm of boosted dretches might be able to decimate the base.  

Sounds like a lot of fun  would the dretch who produced the cloud get evo points?

EricTheRed was melted by BabyAlientheDretch's acid cloud.

I suppose this would require a dretch to be able to get close enough to a building of course, which can be impossible with turrets.   Timing it with a tyrant run might work..

The specific idea I had was that the effects would not stack. I.E. The 'death' sprays acid out, humans can shake most of it off so they mostly only get a single 'singe' from the acid. Any buildings in range are flagged as taking a fixed rate of damage for the next ABC time, each new application of acid would only reset that timer. The visual effect would be on the buildings themselves as the acid fades away, not a lingering 'cloud' effect.

[Paradox]

Name was digested by name's acid...

[Teiman]

Alien level 2 really is useless except for the buildings. Humans get a giant upgrade, while aliens get 2 new aliens. Personally, i think that adv goon should be level 2.

Yeah that it really true except that the "buildings" are trapper, and booster!

TRAPPERS!..

I have spectate with aliens building a base on ACTS withouth acid, only with trappers.

Aliens win that game. I really love trappers

[Paradox]

Trappers need a bit more health.

Also, another balance issue that really burns me. A human can stand next to an acid tube for around 10 seconds without dying, whereas a dretch is killed almost instantly by a turret. Not really fair.

[DrGratis]

Trappers need a bit more health.

Also, another balance issue that really burns me. A human can stand next to an acid tube for around 10 seconds without dying, whereas a dretch is killed almost instantly by a turret. Not really fair.

It is a little annoying, but then a single turret can be circled... even by a dretch, it is a little hard, but techinically possible..

I agree with needing more health for trappers.. they need more health.. Im pretty sure they have even less that tubes, I think the should be at least equal to them...
god knows thier line of fire is annoying enough as is...

[Paradox]

A trapper can be killed by a granger in 2 swipess!?

[next_ghost]

Trapper has 50hp, acid tubes and hives have 125hp.

[|Nex|TrEmMa]

Aliens get invaluable protection form painsaws at s2.  If you can't end it by the time they get s2, then you've probably got an egg hunt on your hands (assuming they have at least 1 competent builder).

[Paradox]

Painsaw is perhaps the second most powerful weapon in the game. Flamer is the most, i can kill a tyrant easily.

[PHREAK]

God I hate flamers.....really do.
Nothing personal but I just had to get that out of my system.

[[HUN]N.M.I.]

God I hate flamers.....really do.
Nothing personal but I just had to get that out of my system.

Aw, it's not that bad. People just have to learn not to run into the flames while firing .