Destructible Environments

[player1]

Explodable barrels are perfectly possible in Tremulous.

See player1, these are exactly the wild and stupid ideas I refer to so much.

Read more closely. You said it was possible. I said it would be probably problematic. Atom Eve said she supported explodable barrels and crates. I said explodable barrels might be cool, with several caveats, but I would prefer destructible crates to explodable crates, because Aliens would suffer from so many exploding items, due to the overwhelming ranged weapon superiority of the Human team. I also said that implementation would be tough, and that I don't support just making these items available without some thought behind them. Yes, wild and stupid ideas (one of which is your wild and stupid idea). Do you actually read the posts, or is the bold print fucking with your brain?

edit'd to close the parentheses

[Lava Croft]

Explodable barrels is something completely different from what you suggested. Why do you have to overcomplicate things for no reason? Tremulous is perfectly able to make exploding barrels and crates without it requires any kind of crazy ideas, or even worse, coding. Just keep it simple, that is usually what works the best;)

[player1]

No, it's not. You said, "Hey exploding barrels are possible." I said cool, how about two different types, with different damage effects? Please stop being so general, vague, and condescending. Exploding crates is not very different from destructible crates, they're just exploding crates which don't deal damage. Sheesh. Read the post, please. Parse it sentence by sentence, not just in your sweepingly insulting manner. Besides, who the hell is overcomplicating things? We're just tossing out ideas, most of which I severely qualified. So, destructible crates is wild and stupid, but exploding barrels are not? Having them placed in bases is wild and stupid? Having them placed by mappers, and not just every kid with a ckit, is wild and stupid? Pointing out that exploding barrels seems to be a Human advantage is wild and stupid?

If anyone is being either wild or stupid here, sir, it is you.

Wow, destructible crates, what a wild and crazy idea, practically unheard of in the annals of gaming.

Gee, changing a damage animation, how utterly undoable.

Oh my God, someone will have to code this, stop the freaking presses.

To quote your hero, Voltaire: I am in the smallest room in my house. I have your letter before me. Soon, it will be behind me...

[Lava Croft]

You don't seem to realize my point, or better said, you still don't. Like so many people who don't think, you opt ideas that will most likely never get executed. I merely say that exploding barrels are possible, you come up with all kinds of crazy ideas that even my 5 year old nephew would smirk about. I'm merely trying to explain to you that making things overcomplicated is a good chance of the things staying in the realm of ideas, instead of actually being used. You are most likely not going to write code, nor are you going to make maps, so that leaves you with just your idea, or better said, that leaves you and a host of other people with their great ideas, while I rather think about things that can actually be done without it requiring extra code that nobody can be arsed to write or implement into Tremulous, merely because it serves no real purpose.

If you really don't get this, I won't try to explain it to you no more, and leave you at posting your fantastic ideas that will never be implemented. I don't really mind either way.

[Kaleo]

exploadables would be good in objective maps. They might fuck up gameplay in normal maps.

[player1]

True. I am not going to code this or anything else. I am not going to map. Literally dozens of silly ideas are posted here every day. I like to discuss various possibilities. What crazy ideas? Different damage animations? Destructible crates? Please stop spewing your general dislike of the world-at-large at me. Did I say that anyone must make these things? I also merely am discussing them, as are you. Exploding barrels. Wow, what a wild and crazy idea. Oh wait, that's your idea. Well, I hope you are going to immediately implement it, since we can't just talk about it; that would be a complete waste of time. But wait, you brought it up. Nice trollification, and again, the surly, insulting manner, denigrating anyone who would dare to differ with you, and heaping all your distatse for non-coders on me specifically. Please don't try to explain anything to me no more, for I fear your argument is with someone else entirely.

If you really don't mind either way, you can go ahead and shut the fuck up now, tough guy.

[Overdose]

Back to the original idea - I just started thinking about what would happen on those servers full of luci spammers, and I actually lol'd. I can just imagine a giant hole straight through the center of ATCS.

[Lava Croft]

@player1: Don't you think this forum is already filled enough with ideas nobody will ever execute? Wouldn't it be wiser to actually opt ideas that might get executed? It's very easy to come up with ideas that will never be done, it's much harder to come with ideas that can actually be done. Try to do the latter, since it's much smarter.

Exploding barrels are not a wild and crazy idea, ever since Quake's first mission pack you could make brushes destructible, basically meaning you can also make destructible barrels/crates. This is available, working flawlessly and therefore usable, whereas your idea is just that, an idea, and we already have enough of those.

Next.

[PS] I'm not a coder.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

exploding barrel + nade + lucijump ---> new term in tremulous: orbit camper

pushing the stuffs would be strange but interesting, i can imagine human commandos collecting all the barrels on the map and pushing them towards om... theoretically you could probably lift up barrels by a level also with adv grangers if they would fall upon you first pushed down by another teammate.

exploding +1, pushing -1 maybe.

Lava why are you still trying constantly to tell poor player1 what to write and what to think? :-D
we are not instantly developing the game, just discussing. and don't tell me that noone was ever thinking about exploding items in trem in the past 6 years :-D if this idea came up right now at the first time, then trem instantly needs your nephew in the dev team.

[==Troy==]

Actually exploding brushes wouldnt be that hard to code in. It needs a fix for the health key leaving 1 spawn in limbo, and just set a NO_DRAW NO_IMPACT flags to the brush when it has been destroyed. In addition a trigger upon hurt/destruction so that mapper will be able to spawn his particle effects in the right time.

Ill look into it, since it is quite close to the AMP patch I am working on.

Pushable objects is a piece of cake as well (all code is there, pushable turrets are a 5 second code modification and a few months of debugging)

[player1]

You said it, pal: you can also make destructible crates.

Thanks.

Apology accepted.

Of course, no one has ever had destructible items in a Quake 3 based game.

So, now which of my ideas was a wild and stupid suggestion that can't possibly get made?

P.S. Please actually read the posts, as opposed to just trying to up your daily flame count.

P.P.S.

i'm not a coder

NFS, it shows, everytime you talk about it, like it's some holy, arcane task that's beyond the pale for any normal human, but maybe the god-like devs will deign to do it for us if only we don't anger them with silly suggestions.

Next.

@Opti: yeah, maybe i was a little vague for people who are reading this who don't primarily speak English, but i don't actually think pushing crates would be a great idea; that's why that post had so many question marks and "Hrm" smileys: it was a thinking-out-loud post, generated by Lava's suggestion and Atom Eve's response, in which she didn't specify whether or not she meant exploding boxes, which just made me think about regular old wooden crates that you can smash/slash/shoot/burn (my comment was that it would be a little too much like DX to actually push them around, but becuz i was joking around, maybe that wasn't really clear)

@Troy:

edit'd to smile @ Troy

also, if anyone wants to refer to my first post in this thread, you'll know i don't take the whole idea very seriously (or maybe that was too subtle for our foreign readers or those who've never played Deus Ex)

finally, although Lava likes to act like he doesn't know better, i'm the guy who long ago said that Tremulous is perfect just as it is, and needs no changes whatsoever (nice troll though)

#10

but just like Voltaire was willing to defend to the death your right to say things he didn't believe in, i still like discussing silly ideas that i hope never get added to Trem cuz i love it just like it is right now

Cheers!

[Lava Croft]

I give up.

[player1]

As well you should.

[Lava Croft]

As well you should.

After consulting with some other people, I decided this was the best thing to do, since energy spent on you is energy spent on nothing.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

So many people would be extremely happy with this cathegory :-D

[Atom Eve]

I liked this idea when it just involved barrels going BOOM!

[Lava Croft]

I liked this idea when it just involved barrels going BOOM!

But that's an idea that can actually be executed without any extra work, so it's not cool.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

lol lava, just take a look of player1's so called (by you) ideas that you noobed down. actually he only said that crates could be in different size, and there could be human kind explosions and another one where not kinda gas but acid explodes. like human and alien buildings, if its hard to imagine at the first sight... he mentioned pushing objects also okay, maybe that's over the capacity, but you argued him on a full page and gave up while you were talking about the same idea.
if barrels can blow up, why it is so übercomplicated for crates? and damaging or not...

pure wasting of energy ^^
:-D

-------------------------------
forums are fun

[Lava Croft]

It's about adding an acid spray for aliens, it about spending 20 lines of text of something that is just that, an exploding crate or barrel, nothing more, nothing less. I can add exploding crates and barrel to my supposed maps this instant, I cannot do so with crates or barrels that explode into an acid blurb, since that requires coding. I merely made a futile attempt to pull player1 into reality.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

"but he can be smart if he trolls out his anger first, it just needs an estimated one and a half page of fighting, a locked thread and a couple fake troll threads to cool the situation down."
-as i said earlier and here you go: after nearly one and a half page here is the smartformation.

hey, player one, come back, the answer finally arrived! :-D

he is probably not coder nor mapper. don't blame us for not being any of them. nobody demanded anything, especially from you, iT's just imagination, you know. but sometimes, as in the case of Hovels, somebody comes and does the idea. ofc its not insurance against total failures or unbalancing issues, but still has the possibility to be useful, or simply being fun.

[EDIT during the next 2 posts]:
anyway theese crates/barrels would be the best i guess if they would be 0 build point buildables while constructing layouts (only) so with every layout they could be different on the same map, or later we can use them on older maps layouts to make them spicy.
i guess at this case you can just copy some codes of existing buildables and change some stuffs to create a "dumb" structure, but it still explodes like normal structures: damaging in acidic or explosive style.

while probably i'm totally wrong, i think the leayoutedit-style crates would be nice, as it is more creative than always having the same maps.

[Lava Croft]

I should have sticked with my 'I give up' post.

[Taiyo.uk]

Stuck.

[player1]

I should have sticked with my 'I give up' post.

Yeah. Quit while you're behind.

Your entire method of argument is so infantile, flawed, obtuse, obscure, vague, general, and personally insulting, that you should give up. It took you six or seven additional posts to finally say that the acid splash damage idea would be harder to implement than the exploding barrel idea. No way, really? Of course, some twelve year-old with time on his hands could make this happen, but because it doesn't exist right now, it must be a wild surmise or a stupid suggestion. I'm just glad you weren't around when fire was discovered. "What the hell do we need that stuff for? Next you people will be clamoring for the wheel!"

By the way, I'm glad that you needed to consult with others to decide to stop arguing, but then chose to ignore their sage advice. Me, I make my own decisions.

P.S. Go spend your time on something!

I liked this idea when it just involved barrels going BOOM!

But you included crates in your reply, without specifying their explodability/destructibilty. You just said boxes, which one could assume to mean exploding boxes, or could assume to mean just regular old destructible crates. Besides, having them go "SPLOOSH!" could also be pretty funny. Anyway, apparently you can have your exploding barrels right now, today, this minute. Maybe Lava will make you one. Of course, after it goes BOOM, you'll need another one...

Stuck.

Yes, he is. Quite stuck.

edit'd to reply to Atom Eve and Taiyo as well and avoid the dreaded double-post

[Lava Croft]

Since when does consulting other people mean that you do not make your own decisions?

[player1]

Just go back to giving up, it suits you better. By the way, if that's the only aspect of my post you can argue with, then you really have lost.

[Atom Eve]

I liked this idea when it just involved barrels going BOOM!

But you included crates in your reply, without specifying their explodability/destructibilty. You just said boxes, which one could assume to mean exploding boxes, or could assume to mean just regular old destructible crates. Besides, having them go "SPLOOSH!" could also be pretty funny. Anyway, apparently you can have your exploding barrels right now, today, this minute. Maybe Lava will make you one. Of course, after it goes BOOM, you'll need another one...

You're reading far too deeply into my reply. I like the idea of mappers including destructable barrels and crates in their maps, if only for the fun of having something that you can destroy. Hardcoding support for "acid" barrels that only hurt humans and explodable barrels that only hurt aliens into the client, though? That seems like it's going a little overboard.

[player1]

Apparently exploding barrels are already available, so that (according to Lava) doesn't require any coding. No one said they would harm only Aliens (although acid barrels would probably harm only Humans, that is true). Also, if you read my post, I come down on the side of having mappers include them in maps, not just having them scattered willy-nilly across the existing maps. Lastly, exploding and destructible are two different things. Please do not use the two terms interchangeably. And, yeah, if you view my first post in this thread, you'll see that I think the entire idea of destructible environments is a bit overboard. But as long as we're talking about silly ideas, let's toss out a few silly suggestions, and then separate from the dross that which is sublime. Thanks for posting a considered reply, and not referring to your five year-old nephew, other people you consulted, or any other silliness that doesn't add to the discussion at hand.

Cheers!

P.S. No one has yet addressed the issue of exploding items (which can be detonated from afar) being a possible Human advantage (since they use mostly ranged weapons).

edit'd for postscriptage

[Lava Croft]

Just go back to giving up, it suits you better. By the way, if that's the only aspect of my post you can argue with, then you really have lost.

Replying to the rest of your post would be to acknowledge you, which I won't do.

[player1]

You just did.

[Taiyo.uk]

Re: Destructible Environments:

Being able to blast holes between arbitrary areas of the map is almost certainly impractical as this requires fundamental changes to the way that Q3 rendering works - remember what the vis stage of map compilation is for. Surfaces that deform (within strict bounds) when damaged are possible but will require significant coding to implement.

What I would really like as a mapper is to be able to define surfaces in terms of how they react to being shot at with the various weapons in Tremulous. For example, shooting bullets at sand does not leave black marks, emit a ricochet sound or create flying sparks. Instead, a small pit is left with a small cloud of dust (assuming that the sand is dry) with a quiet "thump" sound.

I've just played the original Half-Life again, and the way in which the different materials react to being smacked with a crowbar adds significantly more depth to the environments in the game than could be achieved with just the graphics engine alone. How difficault would it be to allow shaders like this?

Code: [Select]

// mymap.shader

mymap/alienflesh
{
        impactsound    splat.wav
        stepsound      squish.wav
        impact_ps      mymap/alienblood
        impact_mark    mymap/alien_wound

        {
               map     mymap/alienflesh.jpg
           etc...