Forum Request - Modelling

[doomagent13]

We have Modding and Mapping sub-forums, so why not Modelling?  For uber-n00bs, Modelling is the process of making models, such as the players and buildables in trem.  While some might ask what the point of having a modelling forum would be, it would likely help in the creation of greater variety in full mods, such as tremx or arcade.  Except for relics and domination points, (which may or may not actually be models...) I think there has been just ONE custom model in any mod, the xael in tremx.  Sure, there have been some custom skins, bt those are not as hard.  Not counting the devs, we have (I think) ONE modeller, Redsky, with his fletch. (I think that was decided upon as the name...)

I am sure most people, if not everyone, has seen a topic asking for a third team.  While it often was said that someone just needed to code the team, that is NOT TRUE.  It would need models.  Who would want to play humans against a machine team that used the alien models, or vice versa?  No one!  Yes, it would be better than playing against an invisible team, but it would still not be that fun.

So, I would like to request the creation of a "Modelling" sub-forum to help promote the creation of models.  It would likely take a while to start getting good models, but even bad models are better than none.

[Lava Croft]

I think there first needs to be content to justify such a forum. One thread about a Tyrant model does not justify a Modelling forum in my view.

[Rocinante]

Yeah, this could go either way.  Either you have the content and create a forum to hold it, or you create a forum and hope it gathers content.  Hard to choose :>

So far it seems people voting are in favor of the idea, but if it doesn't happen right away I could suggest making posts about modeling in the mods forum (reviews & releases has been gathering a lot of concept ideas, so that's probably as good a place as any).  Then a combination of the vote here, plus the content, might sway the decision closer to your goal.

[doomagent13]

I get your point.  I would certainly LIKE to make the mythical third team, but I dont have the patience to learn how to do modelling or to even do it once I know how to...

[Taiyo.uk]

Well, a development section comprising coding, mapping, modeling, sound and 2D graphics sub-forums may be an idea, but unfortunately I fear that they would remain rather empty aside from the usual stream of n00b requests. OTOH, this could help to encourage development and show that there is interest in creating fresh content. For comparison I've seen more new modeling work happen in both the Nexuiz and OA forums than here. However, since OA has a dedicated modeling forum whereas Nexuiz does not, it doesn't seem to make a fat lot of difference.

[player1]

Is there a good guide to getting started anywhere? Also, how many active modellers does the Trem community have? I ask because I almost started the same exact thread, and because I know who some of the mappers and mod-makers are, but I don't really know who the active modellers are. It seems like it would be good to start learning, since I perceive a shortage of people doing it. Maybe instead of their own forum to start, just a sticky thread in the Mods section listing some resources: Want to Start Model-Making - Look Here First/FAQ. I agree with DA13 that it seems that modellers need a place to congregate, but I can see Lava's point that another sub-forum would be too much too soon, for the tiny modelling community as yet evidenced herein.

[smartalco]

a good start would be downloading blender www.blender.org, google the wiki book for it (its called blender: noob to pro or something), go through that, and then read the other 100+ things on the blender wiki (thats what i did, half way anyway, although im far from creative enough to make anything decent, give me some basic items and i can throw them together, if someone were to spend more time on this then a 7th in line hobby, they could get pretty dang good pretty fast)

[player1]

So you're saying start here? Thanks for the info, smartalco. Sounds encouraging. (Although I was a bit daunted by the whole "shaders" and 4000-9000 vertices thing.)

[mooseberry]

I would love to see a new subforum for modeling. I'm the lead 3d modeler in a group working on updating a lot of models and textures for Tremulous. We don't yet have enough content to actually release anything yet, and I'm not going to show anything off yet, if you look hard enough it should not be that hard to find my "rough draft" for a new Tremulous rifle. (which is in full 3d.)

[Odin]

I think there first needs to be content to justify such a forum. One thread about a Tyrant model does not justify a Modelling forum in my view.

I think if we had one it would spur modeling interest.

[Shadowgandor]

I think there first needs to be content to justify such a forum. One thread about a Tyrant model does not justify a Modelling forum in my view.

I think if we had one it would spur modeling interest.

Exactly, I used to visit a forum from a game called 'Lemmingball Z' and they really encourage modeling and modding. About 3/4th of that community has made atleast 1 char or something

[blood2.0]

if there is a section for modelling more people would be inclined to learn it and create stuff.  You could also create an other section for stuff that isn't as easy and well known as mapping  and modding such as  modelling , skinning, animating, etc.  just an idea

[AKAnotu]

all i know is tayo.uk's mr. jolly and redsky's fletch

[doomagent13]

I think there first needs to be content to justify such a forum. One thread about a Tyrant model does not justify a Modelling forum in my view.

I think if we had one it would spur modeling interest.

Exactly my reasoning.  Look at the mapping forums. I know they have been around for a while, but their presence is almost certainly the cause of the large number of maps being made.  While some of those maps may suck, I think most of them usually show promise.  I think the modding forums have shown similar expansion, although not as much as the mapping forums due to the more technical nature to modding.

EDIT:
Maybe add such a sub-forum under the Mods category?...

[techhead]

"Creative development"
A place for work on Tremulous including aforementioned modeling, as well as 2D art, animations, sounds, et cetera.
It would be the jelly (flavor) to the peanut butter (substance) of coding and technical.

[David]

Except... If you make a map it can be played by people.
You make a model and then what?
We all say its good, and it just sits there.

[Shadowgandor]

Mods perhaps?

[David]

No one is going to make a mod just because you made a model.
If someone is making  a mod a needs models, they will ask.

[doomagent13]

I have a plan to get rid of "tremulous.h" and most, if not all of the hard coding of classes, weapons, and buildables.  Once I get that done, making additional teams would be fairly easy as long as they used some relatively standard types of weapons.  Maybe add a modelling forum once I finish and it gets accepted?

@David:
Wouldnt it be better to have an excess of models than to not have any custom models at all?  It's sort of like the maps.  There are dozens, but only the good ones really get played all that much.

[Shadowgandor]

No one is going to make a mod just because you made a model.
If someone is making  a mod a needs models, they will ask.

I meant the person who made a model might follow a tutorial or something on how to create your own mod et voila. I know it's a lot of work, but hey, they can try, can't they?

[blood2.0]

so what if 99% of models aren't used the 1% that is will make the section worth it. Plus what about models for maps.  I have seen many maps where the models are crap maybe this section would fix this. what is the worst thing that will happen if there is a models section?  Maybe some mappers will find that they are amazing molders what is wrong with that?

[Plague]

so what if 99% of models aren't used the 1% that is will make the section worth it. Plus what about models for maps.  I have seen many maps where the models are crap maybe this section would fix this. what is the worst thing that will happen if there is a models section?  Maybe some mappers will find that they are amazing molders what is wrong with that?

This post alone negates all the nonsense blood2.0 has written in the past and essentially thwarts any further complaints against the idea, excepting the personal attacks and incompetency flames which invariably appear in threads on this board where opinions may differ.  Creativity, in whatever shape it may take - modelling, mapping, or modding, should be encouraged and given ample resources (ie a forum) to evolve into something which can be used. 

And if you're looking to offset this addition to the boards, the off-topic forum can surely go.

[gareth]

i support this board

[Shadowgandor]

I still support this board

[Survivor]

I don't. Diluting the concentration of posters over a multitude of forums leads to a bad overview of the board. Modelling threads can fall under either mods or mapping, depending on the model. The people present in those two boards are also the ones best able to judge and help modellers, plus the modellers get the added benefit of leeching of the visitors looking for maps and mods.

[TRaK]

I do think that a modelling forum would be a good incentive to encourage people to make models. One of the main reasons I started making maps was because I was motivated by looking at other people's work in the mapping forum.

Also, it would have the added benefit of allowing for a central place where mappers and modders can look for models and request models. Right now there are several very nice (map)models out there that can only be found in a rarely played map or two, or in some mirror that is unknown to the general mapping community (e.g. the steam engine in Sokolov, the gummibunni ship from siege/citadel, the ~20 models in KOsAD's metro). Publicizing these resources in a central location could make life easier for everyone, and possibly allow for more creativity

That being said, I do agree that the modelling community is currently too small to justify its own forum. However, I think the idea of a modelling forum should be kept in consideration as the tremulous community becomes larger


As a side note, I think one of my next projects will be to learn to make decent models 

[gareth]

+1

[Stannum]

A modeling thread in the mapping forums would probably be enough.

[Survivor]

A modeling thread in the mapping forums would probably be enough.

Can live with that. Need a volunteer to keep an updated list of modelling threads going on.
A la "list of all maps":
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=3574.0
and a la "Hud catalog"
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=5481.0
Whoever wants the job, and is in reasonable standing in the community, make a thread in the level reviews & released forum and gets it stickied.

[doomagent13]

Rather than just a thread, what about a separate board in mapping, maybe with a direct link from modding?  Whatever works, I guess...  I really wish we had a modelling group, or at least a "trunk" of spare models.