public maptest: pulse - BETA 1

[soubok]

Hi,
I am pleased - - to announce that the BETA 1 version of my map "pulse" is released.



You can download the .pk3 file here
And play it on: "#db@Derelict (Pub Test) server" ( thanks to megabite ! )


remember that:
 
 - there are some bugs:
   - some sounds do not play properly
   - it is hard for humans to walk under the floor.
   - the sun do not lit inside the watch tower.
   - some textures,shaders,sounds,models rely on other maps.

 
 - some gameplay elements are missing:
   - outdoor nobuild brush
   - some airway
   - access under the two big secured-doors ( for small aliens )
   
 - some candy-eye elements are missing
   - compilation has be done without radiosity bounce, without lightgrid (players are not lit properly)
   - shadows are ugly


I hope you will like to play on this map, and give me a lot of feedback about:
 - gameplay
 - layout
 - graphics (brightness, missing textures, textures alignments that go wrong, ... )
 - bugs

Thanks.

[[db@]Megabite]

Hey,

I just uploaded it to blackheartware.com for a faster download mirror: http://blackheartware.com/cstrike/trem/map-pulse-beta1.pk3

It should be running on #db@ | Derelict in a few moments...

Danny

[[db@]Megabite]

Okay, here is my first review with the most important issues... some have been discussed playing the map:

pros:

- visuals: the finished parts are looking very nice, especially the outside area.
- size: it allows for big matches with many people.

cons:

- build points: something "normal" should do much better..
- performance: some hint brushes should do, try to avoid area portals as they block radar!
- lighting: some "bounce 8" lighting takes long to compile but will get much better results, especially with the large shadows outside
- lighting: the "vents" and some areas under the stairs are completely dark, you do not know where you are heading.
- visual overload: the main corridors are nice, but everything blinking in that pulsing light something is a bit disturbing. looks nice with lights out but with lights on I feel like on hard drugs or something.
- generator: you can stand on and rotate with the rotating things, even block them and make funny sounds... as it should be a visual gimmick maybe you should make the area inaccessible or instagibbing anything touching the generator.
- size: although good for big matches it is hard to distinguish where the main corridors are leading as they all look very much the same. I have not been able to find the way to the outside in some 20 minutes and the size and especially number of ways is generally irritating.

My final word on it: It looks promising but is not playable for a decent match right now. Don't take this as a bash, I just mention the points I would change and try to explain why as far as possible / needed.

I am looking forward to playing beta2

Danny

[Ksempac]

Same judgement for me : Looks promising but no playable yet

Some other issues i noticed (and already told about ingame) :
- The cams in the control room are strangly tilting as if they were on a sea...that mades me sick

- The water tank area is nice you made a great job here (i m waiting for the sounds ) but as for now its quite useless : humans will just go down the stairs and wont bother with water...i would really like to make it funnier.
2 ideas :
- Make it more interesting for humans : maybe create a place for them to build where tyrants cant get them ?
- Or make it more dangerous : remove the stairs and put a huge ladder instead : To go down humans will have to jump in the water (i would really love a big jump thats why i prefer this idea ) and to go up they will have to swim and get to the ladder on the other side.

- A thing we already talked about : Move the ladder behind the human base (i mean the human base in this first game) on another side. As for now you have to make a 180° turn to leave the ladder and it often ends up in a suicide. With some training it is possible to get out safely but people wont like much the 3 or 4 suicides before that :wink:

About the problem of the size that Megabite raised i agree : its very hard to know where we are because all the walls are alike. Maybe you could put some signs such as "Control Room ->" "Area A ->" "Area B" etc...
Its supposed to be a human base so it seems normal that humans had some signs to help them find their way.

EDIT : We already talked about it but i want to write it here so that you dont forget : Making the S3 hard too reach is a good idea but 125 kills for something like 4 or 6 players is really too much. Only the best players would be able to kill enough to get to this limit and public servers are full of not so good players.

[SLAVE|Mietz]

About the problem of the size that Megabite raised i agree : its very hard to know where we are because all the walls are alike. Maybe you could put some signs such as "Control Room ->" "Area A ->" "Area B" etc...
Its supposed to be a human base so it seems normal that humans had some signs to help them find their way.

agree to that

[Survivor]

Most things mentioned don't need repeating. There's a hom-effect just outside of the alien starting point. Also the outside door can only be opened from the outside? Or did we miss something?

hom effect

[DarkWolf]

Im sorry to inform that [DB@]Megabite has removed this map out of the cycle of his server.

Anyhow, its a good map, love the doors and buttons =D.
A few tips (which some you already know).


The outside area door should have a two-sided button, so it cant be closed from outside and leave the aliens inside, i know your're working on this, just a reminder   .

Make the controll room more like a controll room, the only thing you can do there is seeing 2 cameras swining like a ship on sea, make it so that it has strategic value, like that it can open/close doors from the entire map, or that it can activate some base defences? (surley the humans wouldent been defenceless?).

Make the watchtower window bigger, so you can atleast see something outside   .

And the previously mentioned markers should be placed in the map, easy to get lost if you're new   .


I think that will be all, i will post any ideas if they come up in me   .

EDIT: Maybe a total lockdown button in the controll room, that all the doors will be closed and can't be re-opend for a certain amount of time, ofcourse after they can be opend again, it shouldnt be so that there can be a immediate lockdown again, maybe 5-10 minutes inbetween (depending on how long the lockdown should last)

[Survivor]

Oh yes, forgot. target_location. Add it for easier communication on this huge map.

[[db@]Megabite]

Okay,

here a radar shot of "some" human turrets... that's why we deem it unplayable right now...
The other picture showing another HOM, don't ask me where it was... somewhere under the floorboards of the standard corridors...





I hope the shot helps locating the glitch!

Danny

[gareth]

Overall i think this map has the potential to be great, but i have these coments to make.

lighting&texturing: Please make this one of the maps that is playable at normal birghtness (others include atcs/meep/nexus) I like the blinking lights but its not so good that some areas are just totally black with no lighting at all. Also the texturing outside is all a bit bland, some more contrast and mabye some cacti or something would be nice. The water is nice, maybe it could swirl a bit tho.

design: It is quite easy to get lost, I think it needs some more landmark type things. Also it seems to be a lot of corridors with out that many rooms, I dont know how many places there will be to put OM for example.

Perf: On a gfmx4000@800*600*16 it went down to 12-13 fps in  a few places, although most places are ok.

Also those moniters are wierd, the view changes when you move around, as if it is not a flat screen but a window into the other room.

[DarkWolf]

Megabite"]Okay,

here a radar shot of "some" human turrets... that's why we deem it unplayable right now...
The other picture showing another HOM, don't ask me where it was... somewhere under the floorboards of the standard corridors...





I hope the shot helps locating the glitch!

Danny

Hehe yea, some people on my team were spamming the corridors of turrets just because they could, but they still got owned by marauders going under the floor and zapping through the gaps and through the floor  :eek: .
Anyhow, that should be fixed, it's a good thing that soubok and me came to an agreement to make the buildpoints 110 instead of 90, considering this is a pretty big map, and humans wanting to have a secundary base in the controll room, especially now that it will have more use to the humans   .
I hope you'll reply soon to these posts, i'm anxious to see your reply to all these ideas      :wink: .

[Neo]

yeah, btw the marauder zap doesn't go throught the gaps in the flooring sections but the actualy floor itself, you just need to find the right angle. It was such a pity that the time limit hit before I could finish their last telenode.

[soubok]

Hi,
I would like to thanks everybody for the test session and your usefull comments !
There are a lot of (minor) bugs in this BETA 1 ( 950 build pts, why not ? ) BUT they are all already fixed, and all your comments has beed used ( except for gurp.wav sound )
- water tank is more useful ( now, whater is now drinkable )
- add of trigger_position ( a lot, with colors )
- add of signs
- ctrl room has 3 new switchs ( to ctrl the doors )
- more lights have been addad
- less hard drug effects in corridors
- all corridor sections have been modified ( easyer to travel under the floor  + metalstep sound)
- watch tower : redesigned
- build pts, stages ok
- ...


There are a few bugs that I don't know how to fix :
 - the strange thing that make turrets disappear on the radar ( I don't know anything about portals, neither hint. any tutorial ? )
 - the camera banking is hardcoded inside the Q3A engine, ( enemy territory team have fixed this feature )

[Survivor]

Hint tutorial

common textures tutorial including brief area portal explanation.

By preference use hint over area portal even if it is harder.

[Timbo]

- the camera banking is hardcoded inside the Q3A engine, ( enemy territory team have fixed this feature )

I should probably fix that. Please add a bug to bugzilla.

[KorJax]

Here is what i said in the other thread:

Played+tested




I have to say, the halways, although they look very good, are very complex. I often found myself getting lost in them. They look alittle too much alike. Also, never, ever, have pitch black rooms unless you can clearly see the exit as soon as you enter, or it has a point in the room that you can see (like a blinking light) as a point of reference and some light. Just to be on the safe side, try not to have completly pitch black rooms. We dont have flashlights you know

Also, the human teleporters outside get destroyed due to damage.

And i dont like how the human team starts on a landing pad that is a long way away from the start. I wouldnt mind them starting outside if it was ALOT closer, but right now, it sucks to say the least. Kinda hinders base building.

I am assuming you cant build outside aswell. If you can, thats a huge disadantage to the aliens, as the humans can build outside and close the door to not let any aliens in. Just make it so you can open the door from both sides.

As a matter of fact, I woudl like to see the outside have more purpose than the intial stretch. A good example is the map Karath. The outside is actually an optional path you can take. Somthing similar would be pretty neat for this map, except minus the exact style that Karath does (for orignonality). Perhaps have the half of the entire map be outdoors optionally or somthing similar for added coolness? I mean, the outside in this map could be similar to how the basement tunnels work in Tremor. Such as, above the base (or around it) could be an entire above ground area that would be a dangerous path to take, but mabey helpfull if your doing a raid.


In all, i like some of the concepts (OMG CAMERAS!!) of the map, and the detail is pretty good for the map as a beta 1, but it could use some balancing work and a serious fix up to be really playable  

Some of it has already been mentioned, but the emphisis in that post is the outside.  I feel its a really cool concept, but it needs some work.

[[db@]Megabite]

Another issue came up yesterday... it seems that pulse changes team thresholds and build timers and maybe other things.

Those values do not change back automatically on mapchange!

So all other maps are influenced quite negatively... you may want to keep all svar settings standard and leave manipulating them to server admins. This may have a severe impact on your map design but I cannot imagine any admin cycling a map that constantly messes his configs...

Danny

[Tatical]

So thats why we needed 100+ kills for stage 3  

/Lonely Angel.

[[db@]Megabite]

right...  :evil:

Danny

[soubok]

I'm sorry for that new issue, but these values are usefull for the gameplay of the map.
A workaround would be a little map, in the map cycle, with no entities, except worldspawn with default values.
BTW, We have to ask Timbo if it is a bug or a feature.

[Neo]

Isn't there a way to make a script that runs at the end of each map that would reset the values?

[[HUN]Eagletooth]

Hi!

Firstly i dont know is it actual now, but yesterday came up an idea about your map...

I very like this map, because its big, looks good, and i like pushing the buttons in the control room and testing what happens... I really would like to have a good, long and exciting fight on your map, but sadly it has never happened with me... It is because the bad mental capabilities or just foolishness of human players, and there is another reason, the main gate...

I explain what i mean... At the start most of the humans grab construction kits, and rush the main entrance to get inside the base, especially inside the control room... The problem is that the aliens always just camp near the entrance and bite thoose fools, who rush inside without any defense or tactics... Of course the aliens get 'goons and get other nice, but without base and good weapons, undestroyable forms...
Yesterday i've played a match, the situation was the same... Frenzied humans rushing the gate, and just running like headless chickens when the dretches started to chase 'em... That match lasted maybe 4-5 minutes... After the 4th minute all humans left except me, because the aliens had adv. maras and 'goons... I closed the main door and started to establish a base outside... I have just built the reactor, when the gate suddenly opened  and all of the aliens charged outside... I think they have opened the main gate from the control room... I didnt stand a chance... And if i play there this situation goes all the time... I think should be solved, because its too hard to get inside and to build outside because the aliens can open the gate from the control room...

I have some ideas that may solve this problem:
-build another entrance, a vent for example or anything, because this one gate is too defendable for the aliens... and stu*id people always rushing it...
-a starting security lockdown for the control room for the first five minutes of the match would be good... I mean the doors and yes even the vent of the control room would be locked for 5 minutes... I think, because of this humans would probably think a bit about building a base outside or just not rushing to the control room because its locked, the vents are locked too, so the aliens cant move their base immediately in or open the main gate...
-i like control room very much because of its door, the cameras in it, and of course the usable switches, and i think this base is excellent for both sides but my opinion is that if one side (especially the aliens at the beginning) captures this room gets too big advantage (via ability to close/ open the doors, and of course those cameras are also good... I think an another room like this is needed... For example: called: Security room... With a few buttons to control the doors close to it, a few cameras and (because it is the security control room) swithces to switch between cameras... I think the best place would be in the watch tower for this base, with 2 modifications: 1. Its too close to the control room so the corridor which leads to the control room should be collapsed... 2. A lift should be added that goes up to the security room, to get a second route to get there... Oh another thing... The security room should have a switch which can cause a security lockdown, which causes all doors and lifts to shut for 2 minutes and of couse with cool, loud alarm sounds everywhere on the base... Of couse this switch would have a long cooldown
-the control room should be expanded with a few swithces shutting the lifts and/or remote controlling them... because its the control room...

Huhh... I havent got any further ideas in the moment or i've just forgot them...
Well i hope my ideas could help, and I also hope that you can solve the problem of the humans getting inside...
And sorry for my bad english...

[DarkWolf]

Wow, this will only delay the next release of the map 2-3 weeks...
Anyhow i like your ideas, and if soubok can make them in a short time, it would be awsome     .

[soubok]

Hi, and thanks for your intresting post !

Unfortunately I have a big issue with the trigger_hurt trigger ( see this post : http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=907 ). This is why I will not release BETA 3 soon.
I have 3 solutions :
- create 16384 trigger_hurt brushs to fill the outdoor area
- close the outdoor area like other maps.
- wait until I found a better solution ( something like trigger_multi_hurt ... )

About your suggestions,
the missing base at (inside) the entrance is a bug, the reactor cannot spawn in the game because I set it too close the ceiling.
( BTW, a thread about the BETA 2 already exist : http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=7700 )

- I think that the Ctrl. room is a strategis place but the worst place to establish a base because there are too many access ( 1 door + 2 vents + and perhaps a vent in the ceiling in the BETA 3 )

- I have added a new access from the watchTower to the base entrance vent ( the existing vent has been extened upwards ...), this will avoir humans camping at the entrance.

- The bottom of the "broken generator" has been connected to the outside of the base (kind of narrow sewage disposal). This way will be good for humans because it is madew of 2 long straight lines (easy to kill drechts )  But because the outdoor issue, perhaps I will have to close it.

- I think that a new room with new buttons will be to complex to understand for players, I want to keep the button system as simple as possible. If I collapsed the Ctrl. room to watch-tower, This will create new cul-de-sac, and it is not good because camping...