Do acid tubes need a little boost ?

[Ardbug]

As it is now, a good player with a grenade can pretty much pop the OM at will (not on all maps though!!), all the tubes in the world wont melt him in time, and tubes actually do a fair amount of damage.
Im not suggesting any increase in damage or area of effect, but I would really like to see the slowing effect upped a bit, maybe slow as much as 40-50% ?

I know a lone marauder is also capable of ripping up a human base, but a marauder need time to do this, the grenadier only need to run to his target and press middle mouse button, and turrets seem to be a LOT more damaging than tubes, so 2 turrets near structures can foil any lone marauder, 3 tubes near OM cant do anything to stop the lone grenadier.

So .... if the lone grenadier was slowed as he entered the base, he would require more time to reach the delicate target, leaving the tubes more time to do their thing if he chooses to ignore all defenses and run straight for OM, and allowing the defenders to get more than 1 hit in before the grenade is dropped.

Increasing the slow effect should have very very little effect on a REAL human attack, where more players attack the base together, since these attackers usually use their grenade to pop the defenses around doors and such.

[Neo]

Depends on tube placement and number, also highlights the use of trappers

Besides tubes have an insane range, the little green stuff isn't a fair indication of what they can reach.

[next_ghost]

Besides tubes have an insane range, the little green stuff isn't a fair indication of what they can reach.

Yes it is, at least for humans. When you fly around with jetpack, you know you have to stop coming closer once the tube starts to spout the green stuff. You're within range but receive no damage yet.

[Ardbug]

Depends on tube placement and number, also highlights the use of trappers

Oh I agree, but the thing is, in order to stop the lone gunman, aliens need a LOT of build points directed at this specific purpose, and it usually means leaving the doors weak as paper, making a REAL assault so much easier for the humans, since all the tubes are plastered around the OM, and 16+ build points are spend on no damage low HP trappers, while the humans basically only need to spend 16 points on 2 turrets, then their inner base is quite safe from lone marauders, try defending the OM with just 16 points

If you use 3 tubes and 2 trappers to defend the OM (wich will only work if the trapper actually connects, otherwise the OM is toast), then you used 40 points right there, add 30 points for 3 eggs, thats 30 points left to defend the rest of the base with, or 3 additional tubes. On S2 you want a booster, then you have 2 tubes and 1 booster free to defend the rest of the base ........... so if you build to defend against solo players with grenades, you are screwed by actual team playing humans, and if you build to defend against an organized human assault, the kind that end up ripping the ENTIRE base apart, not just the OM over and over and over, then you are screwed by the solo suicider with his grenade.

[Teiman]

Acid tubes are a tool to help protect base, more a trap than anything. You really need other stuff, a friendly drench or a trapper, to really stop whatever.
This is by design, I think.

[KorJax]

The problem is that armor is too powerfull, or that armor is to cheap.  An unormored human will essentually instantly die (pretty much) in a base with atleast 3-4 acid tubes, and the same for a group.  However, even adding light armor, it pretty much makes you have atleast 5x-6x more defense against them.

Cleverly placed trappers+acid tubes are key to counter acting this, and as always, the best defense is the aliens them selves if the base is in a good position (aka hard to get to).  The buildings are really just filler, compaired to humans where often the defenses will make or break an attacking alien team (as they can jump over human fire pretty much).

[Paradox]

It is unbalanced. I have plaied as both teams, and am quite good with them. As a human, i can run into the base unarmored and do some real damage, where as a dretch cant get past 2 turrets, and if they do, do nothing to non-defensive structures.

[werepants]

I think the real issue is the armor balance in trem, as stated by KorJax.  I find that s1 is a blast as alien, but as s2 and s3 alien it just takes too much work to get through that armor, whereas humans just hit you with 2 shots from a pulse rifle and you are gone.  I think the play needs to be balanced so that it is a little more friendly to lower class aliens.  I don't think humans particularly enjoy killing dozens of dretches.  I know I don't.  I much prefer having an even match with a dragoon, tyrant, or marauder.

I think it would be better if humans were a bit easier to kill, but less rewarding.  Move evo points up to 18-20 and make it require like 10 for a tyrant.  Then have the armor just half damage.  In another thread, they said that a marauder swipe does 80 damage on a head shot, but with helmet it goes down to 24.  That means it takes 5 *headshots* to kill a human with a piece of armor they get for much less than the equivalent price of a basilisk.  It should be more like 80 damage unarmored, 40-60 armored, and 20-ish with a bsuit.  In return, make it require more kills to get advanced evolutions.

[DarkWolf]

It would be a nice feature, just like when you place a building, that it highlights the AoE of the building, like how far the machine gun turret  / acid tube (would be a circle) can shoot, and if you place an acid tube on the wall, how far the reach is from up to down, so you have a more strategic insight on how to place them, and how high if you build on the walls as aliens (mostly for new builders / players, because most experienced players know this out of experience  :wink: ), and this would come in hand for trapper placements   .

[Henners]

It seems to me that it isnt unbalanced as far as base building goes, just different. A good alien team won't have particularly strong centralised base, but will be fairly mobile, with new bases ready to pop up quickly and eggs everywhere. An alien base is never very defensible as a few humans with lucys will kill anything. But thats the points, aliens are supposed to be hit and run, not hide behind a row of acid tubes.

And for the record acid tubes do a very good job if used well...

[|Nex|TrEmMa]

When I see a lone grenade pop a full health OM, that is the day I stop using the painsaw .  
Tubes are not there to be an invincible seal around your base.  They are a tool for softening up humans for aliens to finish off.
It's just a matter of basebuilding.  If you don't want humans or their explosive toys touching your OM, put up barricades, trappers, hovels.  These block the grenades and slow down the human from eaching the OM.  Compliment these with acid tubes solely for th epurpose of assisting you in killing the human.  Do not expect the tube to get the kill itself.  Maybe try nothing but trappers and count on your team to do the damage on unmoving targets .
I think the best s2 alien base against an s2 human team in the game is the box room on the third (of four floors) of Niveus.  The OM can be placed out of saw/grenade range.  Tubes/trappers can be made virtually invisible to unsuspecting humans.  It's also got lots of places for eggs to be safely palced.
S1 Aliens can't expect tubes to keep an s2 team at bay, the same way s2 Humans can't expect turrets to keep s3 Aliens at bay.
And I can't stress OM placement enough.  Any alien that's played me knows space behind the OM is very bad.  Humans can get back there and all dragoons and tyrants and maras can do is watch (and maybe die on the grenade on their side of the OM that they never saw/heard).
Feeding the other team a higher stage and then expecting it to still be fair is kinda stupid though.