TREMULOUS ON STEAM FOR FREE!!! PLEASE DO IT, and you get statistics, hosting...

[TwistedGamez]

Hey,

I would really love to see Tremulous on steam, using steamworks. www.steampowered.com/steamworks.

It is free, and you can put your game in the store and charge nothing, or not.

There are accievements, Multiplayer Matchmaking, Anti Cheat, Voice Chat, Auto-Updating, Real Time Statistics, Encrypted retail media, Anti-piracy, Beta-testing, Rapid and secure build distribution, Know your target audience (Specs), Bug reporting, Steam Efficiant Installer.

Valve is the coolest company, and they run steam witch is awsume, so i think if it's free why dont you add tremulous to steam?!

Hazza

[Kaleo]

[David]

Well, if we leave aside the fact that I spent real money on HL2, and after a day of work had to pirate it to make it run thanks to steam being a pile of horse shit, here are a few of the reasons why this fails so bad:

• Steam only runs on windows.  Most of the players don't use windows
• Its not free. (See above)
• Its probably not GPL compatible.
• No benefit what so ever
• All the benefits you listed are either not applicable, GPL breaking, or would require way more work to integrate than rolling our own.
• Valve is not a "cool company".  They hate there users more than any other game company I have ever done business with.
• Are they paying you for this pitch?

[TwistedGamez]

Steam IS NOT LIKE THIS anymore, it has all been fixed up and is really good, why else would the publishers of  assasins creed, cod4, rainbow sixes, bioshocks and others start adding there games to steam?

Because it is so much better now it actually works, only the net caffey's have problems because they have people messing with settings all the time!

QUOTE "Its not free. (See above)", it is free you idiot, the client is free, and there are even free games on steam, such as sam and max 4, trackmania nations...

QUOTE "No benefit what so ever
All the benefits you listed are either not applicable, GPL breaking, or would require way more work to integrate than rolling our own."

First of all you dont NEED to use all of them, the free hosting, and updating, would be enough, and they provide stats for the makers... Therfore they dont need to use the multiplayer matchmaking/ anti piracy...

Hazza

[David]

Right...
They do it because there paid to and/or owned by the same people.  (Probably the latter).
No company will have over distribution of there game to a competitor, esp. not such a hated one, without very good reason.  AKA lots of money / bribes.

[TwistedGamez]

I have The valve complete pack, and hl2 and EVERY GAME, i have ever played on steam WORKS 100%, NO PROBLEM!

Every thing works fine, your pc is full of crap in the registry, get registry booster, or re-install windows!! Because MINE WORKS FINE!

Stop dissing steam it works fine no problem!

[David]

Every thing works fine, your pc is full of crap in the registry, get registry booster, or re-install windows!! Because MINE WORKS FINE!
Stop dissing steam it works fine no problem!

Lol your doing a great job here.

Well you go fellate your registry some more, I'll be happy knowing that my box runs way better than yours ever will.

[TwistedGamez]

Every thing works fine, your pc is full of crap in the registry, get registry booster, or re-install windows!! Because MINE WORKS FINE!
Stop dissing steam it works fine no problem!

Lol your doing a great job here.

Well you go fellate your registry some more, I'll be happy knowing that my box runs way better than yours ever will.

Yeah what ever, i give up, you guys are so arrigant, you think nothing can ever change! Steam is better now, and your box musn't run better than mine if it crashes on simple games...

[David]

My box doesn't crash on simple games, it hasn't crashed ever that I can remember....
Its just steam tell me to bend over and install all this shit, and remove all the useful stuff I have, and I tell them to GTFO.

And were not closed minded, its just I made a list of problems, and you found no solutions to them.  So as it stands there isn't a single benefit, and a fair few problems.  If you would care to write a rebuttal to my earlier post, we can get back on to the discussion at hand,

[Kaleo]

If I go out and want to buy HalfLife 2, and I realise that I need an active internet connection to play it, I'm not going to buy it.


That's why I pirated it.

Also, you sound like you're being paid to post this shit here.

[Lava Croft]

David, Steam works flawlessly under Wine. Thank the creators of Wine for the fact that a lot of companies cannot be arsed to create Linux native applications. Also, I'm not sure that most people do not use Windows. You have any proof to back up your statement?

id Software releases their older games on Steam, as do other companies, and they come with DosBox. Since DosBox is FOSS software, I see no reason why Tremulous cannot be delivered by Steam.

The biggest single benefit of Steam is that it allows small developers to release their games to a big public, without having to succumb to the will of a big publisher, without having to 'give' away their intellectual properties, and with most of the profit actually ending up in the pockets of the developers, instead of the pockets of said big publisher.

Valve is just about as cool as id Software is, which is not very. Most big game companies are a bunch of stuckup bastards.
This is not specific to Valve. There is a reason id Software is called Ego Software, for example.

The fact that your shitty computer fails to run Steam does not inherently mean that Valve hates or disrespects it's customers. I think it means that your computer is a bit broken, since Steam runs fine on every computer I tested it, be it in native Windows or in Wine. Sure, Steam has it's bugs, but no application is bug-free.

Just as a last note, Steam is not the Holy Grail, nor is it the solution to evertyhing. But, it is the only 'system' of its kind. Of course it's very easy to bash it for the things you think it does wrong, but so far, nobody has done better. And I'm not expecting your beloved FOSS community to create something like Steam in the coming 500 years.

[PS] If I am not mistaken, Timbo has also toyed with the idea of releasing Tremulous on Steam, so this idea is not that outrageous at all.

[David]

David, Steam works flawlessly under Wine. Thank the creators of Wine for the fact that a lot of companies cannot be arsed to create Linux native applications. Also, I'm not sure that most people do not use Windows. You have any proof to back up your statement?

Well wine has gotten a lot better of late.  I'm glad to hear this works too.  Doesn't bode well for there awesome cheat protection, but meh.

id Software releases their older games on Steam, as do other companies, and they come with DosBox. Since DosBox is FOSS software, I see no reason why Tremulous cannot be delivered by Steam.

Well I haven't read the steam TOS etc, what with it not being public.  But I'm 99% sure that all its 'features' will go the way of punkbuster.  Just using it as a CDN seems kinda pointless what with already having abundant free bandwidth.

The biggest single benefit of Steam is that it allows small developers to release their games to a big public, without having to succumb to the will of a big publisher, without having to 'give' away their intellectual properties, and with most of the profit actually ending up in the pockets of the developers, instead of the pockets of said big publisher.

Your still selling your soul.  It might not be as bad as with other people, but your still handing them a big chunk of power.  Again, I haven't been able to find the TOS, so a definite answer on this doesn't look to be forthcoming.

Valve is just about as cool as id Software is, which is not very. Most big game companies are a bunch of stuckup bastards.
This is not specific to Valve. There is a reason id Software is called Ego Software, for example.

What big company *isn't* stuck up?  By definition there friendliness towards customers only extends as far as it needs to to get our cash.

The fact that your shitty computer fails to run Steam does not inherently mean that Valve hates or disrespects it's customers. I think it means that your computer is a bit broken, since Steam runs fine on every computer I tested it, be it in native Windows or in Wine. Sure, Steam has it's bugs, but no application is bug-free.

I got HL2 within days of its launch.  Steam saw HL1 and CS etc installed, and gave me no choice but to steemify them, so I said yes.  It then when ape-shit about my install not looking much like the default.  Result:  No steam, no HL2, no HL1, and lots of mess.  One windows reinstall later and I'm on a 6 hour download (over 56k) just to have it go ape-shit again for no reason.  One pirated copy later and I'm away.
I also hate the idea that when I'm out with my laptop I can't play single player games without finding some wifi.

Just as a last note, Steam is not the Holy Grail, nor is it the solution to evertyhing. But, it is the only 'system' of its kind. Of course it's very easy to bash it for the things you think it does wrong, but so far, nobody has done better. And I'm not expecting your beloved FOSS community to create something like Steam in the coming 500 years.

No body has done better, as IMO it isn't needed.  Games worked fine before it came along, and forcing updates to play single player hasn't improved my gaming experience much.  I'm sort of glad I left my gaming days before its apparent takeover.

[PS] If I am not mistaken, Timbo has also toyed with the idea of releasing Tremulous on Steam, so this idea is not that outrageous at all.

His game, he can do as he wants.  Other than a big audience, what's the benefit?  So long as I'm not forced to use the windows version under wine, it doesn't really affect me.

[Lava Croft]

Well I haven't read the steam TOS etc, what with it not being public.  But I'm 99% sure that all its 'features' will go the way of punkbuster.  Just using it as a CDN seems kinda pointless what with already having abundant free bandwidth.

Here is a short article about how id Software resolved their issues with DosBox and Steam.

Your still selling your soul.  It might not be as bad as with other people, but your still handing them a big chunk of power.  Again, I haven't been able to find the TOS, so a definite answer on this doesn't look to be forthcoming.

I don't see how releasing your game via a publisher counts as 'selling your soul'. I don't know if you have any connection to reality, but publishers, be them classic ones like Activision or newer ones like Steam/Valve are just necessary to get your game out in the open, available to a big audience.

What big company *isn't* stuck up?  By definition there friendliness towards customers only extends as far as it needs to to get our cash.

Again, this is true for any company, and it's not specific to Valve. Therefore, it's irrelevant.

I got HL2 within days of its launch.  Steam saw HL1 and CS etc installed, and gave me no choice but to steemify them, so I said yes.  It then when ape-shit about my install not looking much like the default.  Result:  No steam, no HL2, no HL1, and lots of mess.  One windows reinstall later and I'm on a 6 hour download (over 56k) just to have it go ape-shit again for no reason.  One pirated copy later and I'm away.

Half-Life 2 was released years ago, Steam has matured. Stop living in the past. Also, stop blaming Steam for the problems your obviously broken computer is giving you.

I also hate the idea that when I'm out with my laptop I can't play single player games without finding some wifi.

Steam can run in Off-Line mode, which lets you play your games without the need for an internet connection. On another completely obvious note, Tremulous is an online multiplayer game, so I don't know why you ever want to run it in a singleplayer mode that it doesn't even have.

No body has done better, as IMO it isn't needed.  Games worked fine before it came along, and forcing updates to play single player hasn't improved my gaming experience much.  I'm sort of glad I left my gaming days before its apparent takeover.

Then how will small developers get their games out to a big audience without having to completely sell out? Offering a download via your website is hardly a substitute for something like Steam. Not to mention things like updates, which seems to be hard to come by for the general user. (cl_wwwdownload anyone?) Look at a developer like Introversion for proof of the fact that Steam can indeed be good for small developers.

His game, he can do as he wants.  Other than a big audience, what's the benefit?  So long as I'm not forced to use the windows version under wine, it doesn't really affect me.

The benefit might be that they can charge a small amount of money for Tremulous. The benefit might be, as explained above, that it rules out the difficulties that most people seem to have with getting a hold of updates, like the backport.

[David]

Well I haven't read the steam TOS etc, what with it not being public.  But I'm 99% sure that all its 'features' will go the way of punkbuster.  Just using it as a CDN seems kinda pointless what with already having abundant free bandwidth.

Here is a short article about how id Software resolved their issues with DosBox and Steam.

TFA is a deadlink, and my cache-fu failed

Your still selling your soul.  It might not be as bad as with other people, but your still handing them a big chunk of power.  Again, I haven't been able to find the TOS, so a definite answer on this doesn't look to be forthcoming.

I don't see how releasing your game via a publisher counts as 'selling your soul'. I don't know if you have any connection to reality, but publishers, be them classic ones like Activision or newer ones like Steam/Valve are just necessary to get your game out in the open, available to a big audience.

Yes, if your big.  If your small they shaft you, take everything you own, and leave you screwed and broke.

What big company *isn't* stuck up?  By definition there friendliness towards customers only extends as far as it needs to to get our cash.

Again, this is true for any company, and it's not specific to Valve. Therefore, it's irrelevant.

Fair point.  My insulting valve was more aimed at the OP's obvious infatuation.

I got HL2 within days of its launch.  Steam saw HL1 and CS etc installed, and gave me no choice but to steemify them, so I said yes.  It then when ape-shit about my install not looking much like the default.  Result:  No steam, no HL2, no HL1, and lots of mess.  One windows reinstall later and I'm on a 6 hour download (over 56k) just to have it go ape-shit again for no reason.  One pirated copy later and I'm away.

Half-Life 2 was released years ago, Steam has matured. Stop living in the past. Also, stop blaming Steam for the problems your obviously broken computer is giving you.

My computers have never given such problems with other software.  And how am I to form opinions if not by my own experiences?  If I ignore what I know to believe everyone else then I'm a sheep, and if I don't I'm living in the past?  That's a lame sentence but I can't think of a better way to word it, and I assume you get what I mean.

I also hate the idea that when I'm out with my laptop I can't play single player games without finding some wifi.

Steam can run in Off-Line mode, which lets you play your games without the need for an internet connection. On another completely obvious note, Tremulous is an online multiplayer game, so I don't know why you ever want to run it in a singleplayer mode that it doesn't even have.

Tremulous ATM has no single player, but other steam games do, and there are lots of bot projects which may in the future have something single player friendly. (yeah right).
The fact that they had to add a 'offline mode', which as I understand it is time limited, just shows how DRM and big brother take higher priority than the paying customer.

No body has done better, as IMO it isn't needed.  Games worked fine before it came along, and forcing updates to play single player hasn't improved my gaming experience much.  I'm sort of glad I left my gaming days before its apparent takeover.

Then how will small developers get their games out to a big audience without having to completely sell out? Offering a download via your website is hardly a substitute for something like Steam. Not to mention things like updates, which seems to be hard to come by for the general user. (cl_wwwdownload anyone?) Look at a developer like Introversion for proof of the fact that Steam can indeed be good for small developers.

CS updates worked fine prior to it being steamified.  The tremulous master server has a MOTD function for a reason, and when 1.2 comes out I'm sure they will use it to inform people of the update.

His game, he can do as he wants.  Other than a big audience, what's the benefit?  So long as I'm not forced to use the windows version under wine, it doesn't really affect me.

The benefit might be that they can charge a small amount of money for Tremulous. The benefit might be, as explained above, that it rules out the difficulties that most people seem to have with getting a hold of updates, like the backport.

Except that windows only, so it just makes two update systems to maintain etc.
Would a backport client even be pushed by it?  It would seem logical to keep it in sync with the official client, which is still stock 1.1.

Yay for long posts >_>

[infy]

But, it is the only 'system' of its kind.

There are other similar content distribution systems.

[Lava Croft]

Yes, if your big.  If your small they shaft you, take everything you own, and leave you screwed and broke.

Somehow your conclusions do not coincide with reality. Again I point in the direction of smalltime developer Introversion for proof. They have not been shafted, everything they own has not been taken, they do not have a sore butt and they are not broke. Steam made sure they made enough money to keep doing what they like best, which is creating games. Or Ritual Entertainment, which also was able to create and release the game they wanted, namely the shitty Sin Episodes: Emergence. Thanks to Steam, they even made enough money for the game to pay itself back, and almost enough money to fund a new episode.

Fair point.  My insulting valve was more aimed at the OP's obvious infatuation.

I figured that much, but you know I am not a fan of bashing a company merely for the fact that it is a company. Just wanted to make that clear.

My computers have never given such problems with other software.  And how am I to form opinions if not by my own experiences?  If I ignore what I know to believe everyone else then I'm a sheep, and if I don't I'm living in the past?  That's a lame sentence but I can't think of a better way to word it, and I assume you get what I mean.

Well, I never had trouble getting them to work, so it's your experience against mine. Since they are equal, this is a subject that can be talked about for hours, without going anywhere. But, the Steam that was at the time of the HL2 release is not the Steam that is today. I still fondly remember how shitty Battle.NET was, shortly after the release of Diablo1. Should people just have given up on that too, merely because it didn't work flawlessly right away? I'm happy people didn't.
New systems always come with problems, and I would have expected from an opensource hobbyist like yourself to show some more patience when it comes to the growing up of such new systems. You also show this patience when it comes to Tremulous, don't you?

Tremulous ATM has no single player, but other steam games do, and there are lots of bot projects which may in the future have something single player friendly. (yeah right).
The fact that they had to add a 'offline mode', which as I understand it is time limited, just shows how DRM and big brother take higher priority than the paying customer.

The Off-Line mode, as far as I have experienced, is not limited by time. But, since this is a thread about Tremulous on Steam, I do not see how singleplayer gaming has anything to do with it. This looks like you are just grabbing every argument you can find against Steam and pit it here, just to reinforce your standpoint.

CS updates worked fine prior to it being steamified.  The tremulous master server has a MOTD function for a reason, and when 1.2 comes out I'm sure they will use it to inform people of the update.

Just look at the reality in Tremulous to see proof that it's not working. Most people still run the stock 1.1.0 version. A release on Steam could have pushed out the TJW backport client.

Except that windows only, so it just makes two update systems to maintain etc.
Would a backport client even be pushed by it?  It would seem logical to keep it in sync with the official client, which is still stock 1.1.

This is not important for the end-user, but for the developers. And I see no reason why a Steam client could not push TJW's backport, since it is the defacto standard client.

Yay for long posts >_>

Seconded >_>

There are other similar content distribution systems.

You might have looked a bit smarter if you actually backed up your statement with some useful links.

[infy]

There are other similar content distribution systems.

You might have looked a bit smarter if you actually backed up your statement with some useful links.

I can't be bothered to post any links, so I'll just name a few: Gametap, Direct2Drive, Gameshadow etc.
Heck, there's also PSN and XBLA.

[David]

Yes, if your big.  If your small they shaft you, take everything you own, and leave you screwed and broke.

Somehow your conclusions do not coincide with reality. Again I point in the direction of smalltime developer Introversion for proof. They have not been shafted, everything they own has not been taken, they do not have a sore butt and they are not broke. Steam made sure they made enough money to keep doing what they like best, which is creating games. Or Ritual Entertainment, which also was able to create and release the game they wanted, namely the shitty Sin Episodes: Emergence. Thanks to Steam, they even made enough money for the game to pay itself back, and almost enough money to fund a new episode.

meh.

My computers have never given such problems with other software.  And how am I to form opinions if not by my own experiences?  If I ignore what I know to believe everyone else then I'm a sheep, and if I don't I'm living in the past?  That's a lame sentence but I can't think of a better way to word it, and I assume you get what I mean.

Well, I never had trouble getting them to work, so it's your experience against mine. Since they are equal, this is a subject that can be talked about for hours, without going anywhere. But, the Steam that was at the time of the HL2 release is not the Steam that is today. I still fondly remember how shitty Battle.NET was, shortly after the release of Diablo1. Should people just have given up on that too, merely because it didn't work flawlessly right away? I'm happy people didn't.
New systems always come with problems, and I would have expected from an opensource hobbyist like yourself to show some more patience when it comes to the growing up of such new systems. You also show this patience when it comes to Tremulous, don't you?

When its something that I have paid for, and is being forced on me, and provides no benefit to me... Then no.  No patience.

Tremulous ATM has no single player, but other steam games do, and there are lots of bot projects which may in the future have something single player friendly. (yeah right).
The fact that they had to add a 'offline mode', which as I understand it is time limited, just shows how DRM and big brother take higher priority than the paying customer.

The Off-Line mode, as far as I have experienced, is not limited by time. But, since this is a thread about Tremulous on Steam, I do not see how singleplayer gaming has anything to do with it. This looks like you are just grabbing every argument you can find against Steam and pit it here, just to reinforce your standpoint.

Aside from the fact that trem may get a SP mode, yeah.  But I still contend that general examples of steam sucking are relevant.

CS updates worked fine prior to it being steamified.  The tremulous master server has a MOTD function for a reason, and when 1.2 comes out I'm sure they will use it to inform people of the update.

Just look at the reality in Tremulous to see proof that it's not working. Most people still run the stock 1.1.0 version. A release on Steam could have pushed out the TJW backport client.

That's because stock 1.1 is the latest and most up-to-date official client.  Stick the backport on the download page and then see.

Except that windows only, so it just makes two update systems to maintain etc.
Would a backport client even be pushed by it?  It would seem logical to keep it in sync with the official client, which is still stock 1.1.

This is not important for the end-user, but for the developers. And I see no reason why a Steam client could not push TJW's backport, since it is the defacto standard client.

Steam *could* push said client, I am stating that it probably wouldn't.  If the devs were happy to push a more up-to-date client, they would have done by other means.

[Lava Croft]

meh.

I rest my case on this one.

When its something that I have paid for, and is being forced on me, and provides no benefit to me... Then no.  No patience.

Then I am happy most people are not like you, because if they were, we would not have Battle.NET, or Steam. And that would a loss for the gaming community as whole.

But I still contend that general examples of steam sucking are relevant.

They are only relevant when related to Tremulous, which this is not. You do not have to install any other game to play Tremulous, so I don't see how your experience of sucking singleplayer gaming has anything to do with Tremulous on Steam.

That's because stock 1.1 is the latest and most up-to-date official client.  Stick the backport on the download page and then see.

That doesnt change anything about the fact that TJW's backport is the standard, not the stock 1.1.0 client. And standards are something we should stick to.

Steam *could* push said client, I am stating that it probably wouldn't.  If the devs were happy to push a more up-to-date client, they would have done by other means.

That is exactly the point, with something like Steam,  putting out and geting an updated client on people's machines is a non-issue.

Sneaky bastoid! 

[TwistedGamez]

Ok Thanks Lava Croft, i agree with you totally.

Lava Croft: Half-Life 2 was released years ago, Steam has matured. Stop living in the past. Also, stop blaming Steam for the problems your obviously broken computer is giving you.

&

Lava Croft: Well, I never had trouble getting them to work, so it's your experience against mine. Since they are equal, this is a subject that can be talked about for hours, without going anywhere. But, the Steam that was at the time of the HL2 release is not the Steam that is today. I still fondly remember how shitty Battle.NET was, shortly after the release of Diablo1. Should people just have given up on that too, merely because it didn't work flawlessly right away? I'm happy people didn't.
New systems always come with problems, and I would have expected from an open source hobbyist like yourself to show some more patience when it comes to the growing up of such new systems. You also show this patience when it comes to Tremulous, don't you?

I agree, my computers work fine, vista & Xp pro & Xp Home, all work fine with steam, i have no-idea what is david's problem. Of couse there were heaps of problems before but now it is much better.

David: Steam only runs on windows.  Most of the players don't use windows

Valve are making a linix platform with steam & source engine, so it does work on linix.
"Windows XP   
Windows Vista   
Windows Vista 64 bit
Windows 2003 64 bit
Windows 2000
Other"
I got that from the steam's stats section, and they are adding linix too..

Lava Croft: Half-Life 2 was released years ago, Steam has matured. Stop living in the past. Also, stop blaming Steam for the problems your obviously broken computer is giving you.

That is so true.

from:
I also hate the idea that when I'm out with my laptop I can't play single player games without finding some wifi.

Lava Croft: Steam can run in Off-Line mode, which lets you play your games without the need for an internet connection. On another completely obvious note, Tremulous is an online multilayer game, so I don't know why you ever want to run it in a singleplayer mode that it doesn't even have.

Lava Croft is right, steam works fine, in online mode, you can actually go online on 2 laptops/pc's and then play lan with the same account LOL!

Yes, if your big.  If your small they shaft you, take everything you own, and leave you screwed and broke.

Steam will only take 10% or less, ONLY if you charge for your game, otherwise it is FREE!

When its something that I have paid for, and is being forced on me, and provides no benefit to me... Then no.  No patience.

Half life 2, and orange box, the retail versions, state "Steam is required", you knew full well that you have to use steam, you just take care/look at the box cover. And if you buy it on steam of course you have to use steam, and you have no patience!

Cant be bothered to say more...

[doomagent13]

Umm...

What about us ppc mac users?!?!?!?  Wine only ever got as far as working on Intel macs, and qemu would be too slow...

[Rocinante]

I have The valve complete pack, and hl2 and EVERY GAME, i have ever played on steam WORKS 100%, NO PROBLEM!

Every thing works fine, your pc is full of crap in the registry, get registry booster, or re-install windows!! Because MINE WORKS FINE!

Stop dissing steam it works fine no problem!

For me, Steam doesn't work fine.  I've never played a game on Steam.  Ever.  It never works for me, and never has.  It may never work in the future, but I can't say for sure since I don't know what they may be doing to fix it.  Any games that are distributed exclusively through Steam are games I cannot play, and may never be able to play, because of their choice of distribution methods.  Requiring Steam is therefore a terrible idea from my standpoint, and that of many others in similar situations as me.

I run Mac OS X, and Linux.

While adding Tremulous to Steam may not be 100% terrible, making that the only way to play it is shortsighted and silly.  Have it there for those who want it, and have the standalone installer for those who want that.  Then Steam simply becomes another way to get the program installed and push out updates to it.

Telling people that their computer must be broken and they need to douche their registry is equally silly, especially when you don't know the person to whom you are talking.  I've known David for a while now, and I can believe that he has no problems running a Windows machine without needing to resort to some third-party program that "cleans" things.

You then say "Valve [is] making a [linux] platform... so it does work".  No, it may work.  It doesn't work currently, and they are supposedly doing something about that.  Talking about implementing a fix does not equal having already fixed it.  Yes, there is the option of Wine, which is not always an option and certainly not an optimal solution.

And finally, resorting to insults and name calling to prove your point is simply serving to prove that you have no valid argument.  If you're going to whine like a three-year-old when faced with adversity, might I suggest you refrain from posting.  I'll be happy to help with that if you continue so desire.

[David]

When its something that I have paid for, and is being forced on me, and provides no benefit to me... Then no.  No patience.

Half life 2, and orange box, the retail versions, state "Steam is required", you knew full well that you have to use steam, you just take care/look at the box cover. And if you buy it on steam of course you have to use steam, and you have no patience!

Steam is required to play HL2 yes, nowhere on the box did it say it would steal my computer and break my other games.  Does it have an option to not run at start up yet?
And it being 'required' is what I count as being forced on me.  It adds no benefit to me.

When its something that I have paid for, and is being forced on me, and provides no benefit to me... Then no.  No patience.

Then I am happy most people are not like you, because if they were, we would not have Battle.NET, or Steam. And that would a loss for the gaming community as whole.

Then were both glad there's not more of me.

But I still contend that general examples of steam sucking are relevant.

They are only relevant when related to Tremulous, which this is not. You do not have to install any other game to play Tremulous, so I don't see how your experience of sucking singleplayer gaming has anything to do with Tremulous on Steam.

Have a 

That's because stock 1.1 is the latest and most up-to-date official client.  Stick the backport on the download page and then see.

That doesnt change anything about the fact that TJW's backport is the standard, not the stock 1.1.0 client. And standards are something we should stick to.

Standard yes, official no.

Steam *could* push said client, I am stating that it probably wouldn't.  If the devs were happy to push a more up-to-date client, they would have done by other means.

That is exactly the point, with something like Steam,  putting out and geting an updated client on people's machines is a non-issue.[/quite]
As it is ATM.  If they don't have it its not the end of the world, and if the devs rubber-stamped it then it would spread a lot more.
If someone in a game told you to go to a random site and run a program there, would you?  If so, I have this awesome update for you...

[Lakitu7]

I don't really like steam either, but quite a lot of people do, nowadays.

If Trem can be put on steam and people who like steam can use it (while people who don't can continue to play Tremulous as they always have without it) then what's the harm? This is also assuming their license doesn't force Timbo etc. into anything they don't want.

[Lava Croft]

Then were both glad there's not more of me.

<3

Have a 

You got 'd.

Standard yes, official no.

Can't argue with that, still does not mean something like TJW's backport could not be pushed as an update. That is a choice that neither you or I have to make. I am just pointing out the obvious benefits of a system like Steam, in relation to a problem like the lack of people using the backported client.

As it is ATM.  If they don't have it its not the end of the world, and if the devs rubber-stamped it then it would spread a lot more.

A rubberstamp from the Developers and a link on Tremulous.net stands in no relation to a forced update via something like Steam. It does a infinitely better job in getting as much people to use the new and updated software, without requiring anything more than the usual zombie mindset that the average Tremulous players seems to showcase.

If someone in a game told you to go to a random site and run a program there, would you?  If so, I have this awesome update for you...

That is exactly what is happening in Tremulous nowadays, so it only enforces my point. Thank you.

@TwistedGamez: People like you are exactly the reason why people like me do not frequent Steam that much.

[Nux]

Who'll be the clever bastard who makes a debate friendly reply system which separates quoted paragraphs for you? Not me that's for sure.

I still remember my trouble with steam in the early days ^^ *reminisces*

It was trouble with zone alarm and steam to be exact. While I was installing steam, is it surprising I was a little frustrated when the 'allow this program access' window gave me an option of "No" or "Zone Alarm". Where the "Yes" option should have been, there was a logo... which I couldn't click... and couldn't avoid..

Ok, I'll just press no and exit the installation to change it in the options. Unfortunately this interrupt to the installation wasn't handled too well and mashed up my registry. =( Had to reformat the damn thing.

Time has moved on and Steam is a lot better. Hell, it's great in my opinion! I see this because I didn't give up with it when these other users did.

As another example of who valve has helped, I'd point to Garry's mod. Thanks to valve, Garry's team recieves 50% of a lot of profit rather than 100% of no profit. The support meant it was improved for the official release and so we also got a more perfected game out of it. Woot!

[Odin]

Damn, a lot of posts since last night! I have to say this though:

Doesn't bode well for there awesome cheat protection, but meh.

I played Counter Strike on a cheat protected server in Wine with no problem a while ago.

[kevlarman]

since this has degenerated into a flame war about steam, i'm gonna lock it.

[Lava Croft]

since this has degenerated into a flame war about steam, i'm gonna lock it.

Riiiiiiight. Unlocked. And moved.

[yetshi]

way to make sure you get in the last word lava

Steam is a bloated pile of festering crap, if trem goes steam, trem gets forked.