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Author Topic: Better Hitboxes  (Read 12956 times)

jit

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Better Hitboxes
« on: June 04, 2008, 09:43:05 pm »
Is there any plan for the tremulous hitboxes to become more complex where bullets could go past alien legs or under their belly or under human legs? I did a search over hitboxes and read some, none of them were about tremulous having more complex hitboxes.
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Le Compilateur

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2008, 09:53:11 pm »
It would be nice if hitboxes didn't exist (you only hit if your shot hits the actual model), but that's not going to happen. Implementing this kind of precision would put more stress on the engine and bump the system requirements up a notch (correct me if I'm wrong).
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Divmax

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2008, 02:27:49 am »
Per-polygon hit detection is very complex and would cause more stress on computers. And I have never heard of a Quake 3 modification having implemented per-polygon hit detection instead of hitboxes.
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_Equilibrium_

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2008, 03:07:50 am »
Could we try giving aliens locational damage? I would like to see how it affects gameplay.
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Lakitu7

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2008, 04:42:46 am »
Well, the thing with locational on aliens is that for most (all but the tyrant?) alien classes the head isn't any higher than the rest of the body. As a result, what do you make be the "head" region? The front? There's no easy way to do it like with humans, where the game just calls it a headshot if it's in the top (some number)% of the hitbox.
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Odin

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2008, 06:58:44 am »
What happens here is that the server is actually the one calculating the hit, not the client. Think of the complexity of implementing per-poly hit checking when the server doesn't even currently use models for things. The hit box and the bounding box are all that the server tracks. If per-poly hit checking were implemented, it wouldn't slow down the client at all. It would just put a huge load on the server.

Return to Castle Wolfenstein was the first Q3 game(if I recall correctly) to implement separate hit boxes for the head and body, making the head harder to hit in multiplayer.
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+ OPTIMUS +

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2008, 01:59:36 pm »
Quote from: Lakitu7 on June 05, 2008, 04:42:46 am
Well, the thing with locational on aliens is that for most (all but the tyrant?) alien classes the head isn't any higher than the rest of the body. As a result, what do you make be the "head" region? The front? There's no easy way to do it like with humans, where the game just calls it a headshot if it's in the top (some number)% of the hitbox.

is it a big problem if the program calculates with horizontal percentage instead of vertical?
ofc i can imagine that rear-front is more subjective than top-leg as the model is turning.
or lol, i can imagine a "turnbot", what instantly flips the model for the time of being hit, so headshots would automatically go into the assholes of the aliens. asshole bot. groove :-) (would work as bots are using teleport at q3 at the moment of firing a lethal shot)
even without a bot, i could imagine a charging tyrant who - seeing the luci shot coming - is rapidly turning the ass to the damage to avoid the headshot.

"have you seen opti's perfect 'assturn' at the last game? man, that dude just owns! I wish to make assturns as neat as him!!!" bsdakgjadsjkhHAHHAHAHA

so logical features can turn funny, watch out :-)
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Bajsefar

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Re: Better Assholes
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2008, 05:08:51 pm »
Stand your ground well, men!
Camp your turrets like you never did anything else!

For this is the

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Paradox

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2008, 07:43:43 pm »
Ummm.
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Le Compilateur

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2008, 08:22:24 pm »
Uh, what the hell...?
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+ OPTIMUS +

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2008, 09:14:42 pm »
highfivecopter.

owned. totally.
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Taiyo.uk

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2008, 11:46:52 am »
Can you light their farts?

I think you should light their farts. They'd fly for miles.
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Lava Croft

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2008, 01:17:20 pm »
Quote from: Divmax on June 05, 2008, 02:27:49 am
Per-polygon hit detection is very complex and would cause more stress on computers. And I have never heard of a Quake 3 modification having implemented per-polygon hit detection instead of hitboxes.
Soldier of Fortune 2 has per-poly hit detection.
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Paradox

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2008, 03:04:49 pm »
Halo3 has per poly hit detection.

Or at least thats what they said at the IT convention...
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Bajsefar

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2008, 07:30:40 pm »
But it WOULD cause more stress on computers, wouldn't it?

Is it needed?

I think the game is fun as it is-
Although the assturn definately sounded like a cool tactic. :p
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benmachine

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2008, 02:08:14 am »
Locational damage by angle of hit (back, front etc.) is already implemented, I think.
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Bajsefar

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2008, 07:42:38 am »
  :o
In what way? You mean the head-torso-leg thing, or is backstabbing possible? >.>
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Ivancool

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2008, 02:12:00 am »
Quote
Soldier of Fortune 2 has per-poly hit detection.
Soldier of Fortune 1 (quake 2 engine) too. Furthermore, both SOF has the kickass Ghoul Technology but it's Closed source forever. I'm not sure  but i think that Doom 3 has per-poly hit detection and will be open source :-) but...
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jal

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2008, 10:39:59 am »
Quote from: Lava Croft on June 06, 2008, 01:17:20 pm
Quote from: Divmax on June 05, 2008, 02:27:49 am
Per-polygon hit detection is very complex and would cause more stress on computers. And I have never heard of a Quake 3 modification having implemented per-polygon hit detection instead of hitboxes.
Soldier of Fortune 2 has per-poly hit detection.
Q3 True combat too. Hacked in a mod.

Anyway, I wouldn't go for it.
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Lava Croft

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2008, 12:45:04 pm »
Quote from: Ivancool on June 08, 2008, 02:12:00 am
Quote
Soldier of Fortune 2 has per-poly hit detection.
Soldier of Fortune 1 (quake 2 engine) too. Furthermore, both SOF has the kickass Ghoul Technology but it's Closed source forever. I'm not sure  but i think that Doom 3 has per-poly hit detection and will be open source :-) but...
SoF1 has no per-poly hit detection. SoF1 uses what they call 'damage zones' or something. It's not per-poly hit detection as in SoF2 or DOOM3.
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Ivancool

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2008, 06:33:56 pm »
According to Kenn Hoekstra SoF has per-polygon detection and SoF2 has Per-pixel detection.

Quote
Kenn: The damage location system in Soldier of Fortune 2 is in there and is far more advanced than the system seen in the original game. In the original Soldier of Fortune, our hit-detection system worked on a per-polygon basis. That is, if you aimed your weapon at an enemy and fired, whichever polygon you hit on the enemy model would be destroyed, damage would appear, and the enemy would react accordingly. In Soldier of Fortune 2, the accuracy of the weapons has increased to exist on a per-pixel basis. More detailed skin pages and the GHOUL 2 rendering system allow us this increased accuracy. The original game had 26 damage zones on each enemy model. Soldier of Fortune 2 ups the ante to 36 damage and dismemberment zones per enemy.

Source:http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=21627
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Lava Croft

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2008, 07:33:35 pm »
Quote from: Ivancool on June 18, 2008, 06:33:56 pm
According to Kenn Hoekstra SoF has per-polygon detection and SoF2 has Per-pixel detection.

Quote
Kenn: The damage location system in Soldier of Fortune 2 is in there and is far more advanced than the system seen in the original game. In the original Soldier of Fortune, our hit-detection system worked on a per-polygon basis. That is, if you aimed your weapon at an enemy and fired, whichever polygon you hit on the enemy model would be destroyed, damage would appear, and the enemy would react accordingly. In Soldier of Fortune 2, the accuracy of the weapons has increased to exist on a per-pixel basis. More detailed skin pages and the GHOUL 2 rendering system allow us this increased accuracy. The original game had 26 damage zones on each enemy model. Soldier of Fortune 2 ups the ante to 36 damage and dismemberment zones per enemy.

Source:http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=21627

In that case I have totally mixed up the names and I fail.
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techhead

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2008, 12:48:02 am »
Halo 2 and Halo also had per-poly hit detection, but simplified collision models to conserve processor power, AFAIK.
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Paradox

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2008, 01:37:16 am »
@techhead: facepalm, your right
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doomagent13

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2008, 06:22:53 pm »
This has come up before.  Let me see if I can remember anything...

The server should do all the hit/miss calculations, which it already does.  If possible, it might be best to get the server to do the related physics calculations with its GPU (Instant FPU!!!).  To actually check hit/miss, the server should have a set of low-poly models, maybe about 300 faces?  (I dont know that much about modeling...)  If something as complex as model-based hit/miss detection is going to be added, you might as well add a full-fledged physics engine...
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kevlarman

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Re: Better Hitboxes
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2008, 11:25:47 pm »
most servers have a a gpu that makes your integrated intel look like a geforce 9800 (if they have one at all that is)
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