European Turkey

[Feng Shui]

I want Russia vs Turkey as finals.

Why the hell do you want to countries not in Europe going into the finals?

We gettin invaded by asians. Onoz!

[Lava Croft]

What makes you think they are not a part of Europe? Have you looked on your map? Turkey is more European than Asian. They have a secular state, with a larger divide between church and state than most Christian western countries. And a large army to make sure it stays that way.

[meren]

They have a secular state, (...). And a large army to make sure it stays that way.

Hahahah.

I has LOL'd hard :) That's entirely correct.

[Feng Shui]

What makes you think they are not a part of Europe? Have you looked on your map? Turkey is more European than Asian. They have a secular state, with a larger divide between church and state than most Christian western countries. And a large army to make sure it stays that way.

So just because they have a secular state and a large army then it means its Europoean. That makes no sense. You\'re assuming all asian countries are forced to practice a religion by the state. May I remind you of Japan and China and most notably Russia (which also is a 3/4 Asian country?).

I don\'t know many countries in the west that govern according to the practice of a certain religion other than the Vatican. Also, Christianity (although not all forms ) doesn\'t agree with divorce, abortion, euthenasia (did I get that right?) or artificial reproduction. Most of Europe is Christian (any form of the other) but then again, most of Europe is in the EU, is a partial member or is in association with (such as Turkey and some others). EU forces members to legalize divorce or abortion, at least divorce is certain.

Also being in association with the EU doesn\'t necessarily mean you\'re \"European\" .

Oki? I love you.

I still don\'t want Turkey or Russia to win the Euro, me wants Spain and SPAIN only. I shall not HAVE PEACE UNTIL SPAIN WINS THE EURO, BE IT BY FORCE OR NOT. I WILL WREAK HAVOC UNTIL I SEE THE SPANIARDS WIN THE EURO. MWAHAHAHAHHA I AM EVIL.

+end of moment+

[Lava Croft]

I'll ask you again, look at a map of Europe.

The EU does not enforce laws of abortion, and a law to legalize divorce is nothing more than a basic human right.

Also being in association with the EU doesn\'t necessarily mean you\'re \"European\" .

I don't know if stupidity of this magnitude deserves more attention.

[Lava Croft]

I'll ask you again, look at a map of Europe.

The EU does not enforce laws of abortion, and a law to legalize divorce is nothing more than a basic human right.

Also being in association with the EU doesn\'t necessarily mean you\'re \"European\" .

I don't know if stupidity of this magnitude deserves more attention.

In other words, if you think Turkey is not part of Europe, I think you have no idea what Europe exactly is.

[Feng Shui]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_the_European_Union#Turkey

Proponents also argue that Turkey abides by most conditions for accession. Some maintain that the EU can no longer refuse Turkey, as it has had an open candidacy for over 40 years, and has made major improvements in human rights in order to try to satisfy the entry conditions.

There are, however, numerous arguments against Turkey\'s accession. Opponents argue that Turkey does not respect the key principles that are expected in a liberal democracy, such as the freedom of expression, with potentially repressive laws like Article 301 (which was reformed on April 30, 2008);[17] and because of the significant role of the army on the Turkish administrative foreground through the National Security Council; whose military-dominated structure was reformed on July 23, 2003, in line with the requests from the EU.[18] Turkey\'s large population would also alter the balance of power in the representative European institutions. Upon joining the EU, Turkey\'s 70 million inhabitants would bestow it the second largest number of MEPs in the European Parliament.[12] Demographic projections indicate that Turkey would surpass Germany in the number of seats by 2020.[12] Some oppose the accession of a large Muslim country. Turkey\\\\\\\'s membership would also affect future enlargement plans, especially the number of nations seeking EU membership,[12] grounds by which Valéry Giscard d\\\\\\\'Estaing has opposed Turkey\\\\\\\'s admission. d\\\\\\\'Estaing has suggested that it would lead to demands for accession by Morocco. Morocco\\\\\\\'s application is already rejected on geographic grounds, and Turkey, unlike Morocco, has territory in Europe. French President Nicholas Sarkozy (then a candidate) has stated in January 2007 that \\\\\\\"enlarging Europe with no limit risks destroying European political union, and that I do not accept...I want to say that Europe must give itself borders, that not all countries have a vocation to become members of Europe, beginning with Turkey which has no place inside the European Union.\\\\\\\"[19] Only a small fraction of Turkish territory lies in the common geographical definition of Europe, but this is where the country\\\\\\\'s largest city and its economic and cultural capital, Istanbul, is located. EU member Cyprus is actually located to the south of Anatolia and is geographically a part of Anatolia\\\\\\\'s continental shelf.

Another concern is that Turkey continues to occupy the northern third of the island of Cyprus, which became an EU member in 2004, with 40,000 Turkish troops stationed there since 1974. Turkey\\\\\\\'s original intention, which was declared by the Prime Minister of that period, Bülent Ecevit, was to avoid the island\\\\\\\'s annexation to Greece and to bring an end to the Cypriot intercommunal violence which took place between 1963 and 1974.[20] Since 1974, Turkey refuses to recognise the Republic of Cyprus as the sole authority on the island, until a solution for the Cyprus dispute is found under the auspices of the United Nations. Historically though, the UN Security Council, in its Resolution 541 of 18 November 1983, has declared the occupation of northern Cyprus legally invalid and called for the withdrawal of Turkish forces.[21] The UN-backed Annan Plan for the re-unification of Cyprus was actively supported by the EU and Turkey. However, the Annan Plan was accepted by the Turkish Cypriots at north, but was rejected by the Greek Cypriots at south, in separate referenda which took place in April 2004.

[Lava Croft]

Next time you copy and paste something, you might want to remove all the backslashes and all the links to citations. That way, maybe a small group of retards can be fooled into thinking you actually wrote it yourself.

Now, when you find the guts to actually write a reply yourself, holla at me.

[Feng Shui]

Does it matter as long as I gave you the link?

[Lava Croft]

Does it matter as long as I gave you the link?

I don't care for what Wikipedia says. I don't think Wikipedia has ever been and will ever be a recognized source of information.

[PS] I see you actually made it a quote now, because I wasn't fooled by your blatant copying and pasting.

[Feng Shui]

I was fixing it whilst you replied.

Also, go find info yourself if you don\' trust wikipedia.

You\'re too stone headed to admit you\'re wrong.

[Lava Croft]

There is nothing wrong with what I say. The only difference is where that the only argument you have for your standpoint is copying and pasting from the internet, my argument is made up of my own words and knowledge. I'm not going to argue with someone whose only standpoints are those taken from Wikipedia.

[Feng Shui]

There is nothing wrong with what I say. The only difference is where that the only argument you have for your standpoint is copying and pasting from the internet, my argument is made up of my own words and knowledge. I\\\'m not going to argue with someone whose only standpoints are those taken from Wikipedia.

And we all know your words are a matter of opinion and not actual information

There

Southeastern Europe and Southwestern Asia (that portion of Turkey west of the Bosporus is geographically part of Europe), bordering the Black Sea, between Bulgaria and Georgia, and bordering the Aegean Sea and the Mediterranean Sea, between Greece and Syria

Aka only that small part is a part of Europe.

[Lava Croft]

Since Turkey is one state, ruled by one government, it's impossible to split the country in two and say 'this part belongs to Europe and this part belongs to Asia'. There is a reason the term 'EurAsia' exists. Turkey is a part of Europe, their country is governed in a way that is more like a European country than an Asian country. They are the gateway to Asia, without being an Asian country themselves. I'm pretty sure most Turkish people feel more European than Asian too, but that's a guess.

On a lighter note, you do realize you posted a link to a CIA website? I mean, the CIA and trustworthy information... What's next?

[Feng Shui]

Let me see your doctorate in Geography please. I want to see where you get your knowledge from.

Eurasia = a tectonic plate http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Plates_tect2_en.svg

Its used to define land not a \"continent\" or which country is in which continent.

The majority (like 80%) is in Asia therefor turkey is an asian country.

[Lava Croft]

EurAsia is commonly used to define Turkey and it's surroundings, as the name EurAsia perfectly depicts Turkey's position. I know it's also the name of a large landmass, but I did not mean the landmass, obviously.

Again I ask you, look at Turkey, look how the country is governed and look at the state of the freedoms in the country. It's more European than Asian, if you just don't want to believe this, move one country further into Asia and see for yourself. The only reason people stubbornly keep seeing Turkey as a part of Asia is because their prime religion is Islam, and not Christianity. And since, in the view of most Western countries, Islam is an inferior religion, Turkey is not part of the enlightened Europe to them.

Whereas I can think for myself and draw my own conclusions, the only conclusions you are able to draw is what you are being fed by various websites. Please stop living in the past and start accepting the fact that Turkey is indeed a part of Europe, and they are here to stay.

If all of this does not convince you, the mere fact that they are playing in Euro2008 should be enough proof of the fact that they are considered a part of Europe.

[Survivor]

Hardly seems about the sport anymore.

[Kohrylite]

Funny, here I had always thought of Turkey as the northern tip of the Middle East.  But then again, the Middle East isn't a contintent so wtf, amiright?  No matter who wins here, I'm wrong.  :-(

If you choose not to label them as Middle Eastern, I'd swing towards Lava's belief that they're a European state.

[mooseberry]

mmmm.. turkey...

[Feng Shui]

Whilst you have no proof to prove your statements, I just posted some websites which you consider to have no reliable information, and yet you keep saying you are right, whilst you\'re wrong.

You are so wrong about Eurasia. What you have just said is the biggest lie ever.

And since Turkey governs like european country, therefore its european, then from today I declare that American and Japan are part of Europe.

There is no proof of what you are saying.

Also wtf does Islam have to do with this. There are many European country with Islam as the major religion (Serbia, Albania and some other balkan state).

See the facts here, you stop dreaming (because I can\'t say you\'re living in the past) since Turkey was never or ever will be part of Europe.

Go fucking learn geography before you start making assumptions.

[Kohrylite]

Feng... most of the Middle East (Including all of Islam's holy places) resides in Asia.  Which is why I was tempted to give you the point.

But Lava's right, Turkey's standard of living, industry, and geographical location point overwhelmingly to the fact that it is a European state.

[beerbitch]

[Kohrylite]

[beerbitch]

[Feng Shui]

Jesus Fucking Christ only 3% of it is in Europe, which is not enough to call it a European country.

Also go read about the Cypriot Dispute and see how \"European\" it is.

But yeah, according to lava, the U.S.A is part of  Europe, so is Israel and Japan. Why? Because the have governments similair to European countries.

Why is Turkey in Euro 2008 and the Eurovision?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Why does Turkey want to be into the EU?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

I will not bother anymore to try and prove my point. In the end what I\'m saying are proven and written facts, whilst yours are dreams.

Have fun eating Turkish Kebabs.

End of story.

[Kohrylite]

[Feng Shui]

LOL NICE PIX

[Kohrylite]

Shut the fuck up asshole.

[ODDity]

Turkey has wanted to join the EU for a long time but has never been "invited". Serious discussions have taken place of the last few years but Turkeys record on human rights have kept the EU from making a decision.

Turkey trades heavily within Europe and whilst discussions are taking place it is kind of considered an Honorary member and afforded certain "benefits" such as entry to euro2000, free trade and - if you can call it a benefit - eurovision.

It could take 10 or more years for them to become proper members because its still considered a developing nation, but if they clean their act up Turkey will be allowed full access to the EU at some point.

If the EU lasts that long and doesn't collapse under the ever more angry sea of bureaucracy and corruption brewing that is.


OddEdit: I found a somewhat old but informative Story from the Guardian about it all.

[beerbitch]

bush loves turkey too