Author Topic: Tiled Building (Read 34957 times)

Odin · « **on:** July 01, 2008, 07:51:41 am »

For 1.2, builders could be given(or restricted to, depending on your way of looking at it) tiled building. For example, building structures in RTS' such as Command and Conquer, and Warcraft/Starcraft both use a system of tiles to show where you can build, how far you can build from your base, and showing you where you can't build. Building structures in Tremulous can be a tedious process because of the pinpoint accuracy required for placing structures on map geometry(and even moreso if you're a perfectionist like me). If building were locked to a uniform grid, then builders could actually build faster because they know where they can build based on color codes, and buildings are snapped to a grid.

Here is my concept:

The Reactor generates a power field(as it does now) that buildings must reside in in order to work. Tiles give players a visual representation of that, and are shown when the builder decides to place something. Red tiles show where you can't build(for example, out of the power field/halfway inside map geometry), yellow tiles show where buildings already are, and green tiles are shown for where you can build. tiles would glow underneath the structure you are placing(under the hologram) to show you where you are building.

Obviously this would require some calculation in q3map2 and thrown into the BSP to work(with a modified BSP structure), or it could be calculated at load-time on the server.

Lava Croft · « **Reply #1 on:** July 01, 2008, 08:28:01 am »

I don't want to lose freedom in favor of being friendlier to newer players / making the building 'easier'. Fixing the buildings to a grid means you have to give up some freedom in building the way you want, since you will have to adhere to the grid. And for me, freedom is what Tremulous is all about.

Lakitu7 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 01, 2008, 08:33:31 am »

I'm pretty sure Paper would murder you if this actually went in.

Lava Croft · « **Reply #3 on:** July 01, 2008, 08:45:31 am »

Quote from: Lakitu7 on July 01, 2008, 08:33:31 am

I'm pretty sure Paper would murder you if this actually went in.

I'm pretty sure I'll ask tehpaper for one his guns...

Kaine · « **Reply #4 on:** July 01, 2008, 08:49:56 am »

Even just having a transparent green circle (visible only to the ckit classes) showing the radius (put out by the reactor or repeaters) that is powered could be beneficial to new players.

The same with eggs/creep. I've been frustrated every once in a while when I try to build something and find it's barely off the creep.

TinMan · « **Reply #5 on:** July 01, 2008, 09:16:56 am »

I would like to have a green glow on the ground area that I can build on and a red glow where I cannot, but having to build within grid units would take a lot of fun out of the game.

Kaine · « **Reply #6 on:** July 01, 2008, 09:19:37 am »

My thoughts exactly.

David · « **Reply #7 on:** July 01, 2008, 10:59:20 am »

IMO the draw a green circle is a good idea. Expand it to circles when building turrets etc, to help with the overlapping fields of fire.

Lava Croft · « **Reply #8 on:** July 01, 2008, 12:04:33 pm »

What's wrong with just using common sense and getting some experience with building? Next thing you know we get onscreen messages when our crosshair is on an opponent, telling us to fire our weapon.
If you are trying to build outside of the powered area, your blueprint turns red. I think that's quite a pronounced indication of the fact that you cannot build there, other than that you just won't be able to place the building.
Showing a green circle in relation to the firing range of buildings is not that bad of an idea at all, as long as people who are not new to building have the option to disable it.

David · « **Reply #9 on:** July 01, 2008, 03:57:56 pm »

Especially needed for trappers.
But its always annoying when I have to move the OM or an egg by two inches to be able to get that trapper exactly where I want it.

Paradox · « **Reply #10 on:** July 01, 2008, 04:59:15 pm »

I want both.

First person building by default, but players could press a key and toggle to top down build.

David · « **Reply #11 on:** July 01, 2008, 06:50:51 pm »

Do what? It then AI's their player around the map?
Or no player?
What we are talking about doesn't have massive balance changes, and is doable.

Kaine · « **Reply #12 on:** July 01, 2008, 07:28:53 pm »

Perhaps Paradox is suggesting an option for just an overhead camera angle for the builder, with a visible grid.

I think if such a thing was done, no weapons/items (blaster/nade) should be allowed in this view (How would you aim up and down from an overhead vantage?)

(Except maybe jetpack I guess... some people are into that whole floaty base thing.)

Paradox · « **Reply #13 on:** July 01, 2008, 07:44:24 pm »

The overhead view would only allow for floor building.

Wall/celing building is just too damn complex for a tld view.

Kaine · « **Reply #14 on:** July 01, 2008, 07:52:21 pm »

Good point. Just for curiosity's sake... would a 3-D grid even be doable?

I mean, impractical, but c'mon: It'd look pretty freakin' sweet.

UniqPhoeniX · « **Reply #15 on:** July 01, 2008, 07:56:03 pm »

DO NOT WANT GRID

mooseberry · « **Reply #16 on:** July 01, 2008, 08:29:49 pm »

I like the idea, but there should just be an option to disable either or both of he ideas if you do not wish to have them.

EDIT: By either I meant the green glow telling you where you can build, and the line of fire for turrets, trappers.

Kaine · « **Reply #17 on:** July 01, 2008, 08:36:22 pm »

Quote from: Lava Croft on July 01, 2008, 12:04:33 pm

Showing a green circle in relation to the firing range of buildings is not that bad of an idea at all, as long as people who are not new to building have the option to disable it.

Please people, read what others have posted to save you the embarassment of mimicking what has already been said.

mooseberry · « **Reply #18 on:** July 01, 2008, 08:59:17 pm »

Quote from: eVe on July 01, 2008, 08:36:22 pm

Quote from: Lava Croft on July 01, 2008, 12:04:33 pm
Showing a green circle in relation to the firing range of buildings is not that bad of an idea at all, as long as people who are not new to building have the option to disable it.

Please people, read what others have posted to save you the embarassment of mimicking what has already been said.

1. Lava did not mention that he wanted the glow telling where you could build, just the opposite in fact.

2. Actually it's this thing... where saying the same or similar thing boosts the power of an idea, when more people say they want something, it is more likely to happen. I suppose you think that if no one told Odin that this was a good idea, he would feel just as encouraged to get it done than if we had the posts that we do now...

Kaine · « **Reply #19 on:** July 01, 2008, 09:07:49 pm »

Point taken.

But please don't word it as an original thought then, if it's been said once in the thread already... it bothers me. Please?

player1 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 01, 2008, 10:45:16 pm »

So far I pretty much agree with everything Lava has said about this topic (yes, it's true): I like to tuck stuff in just where I want it; if I want to know when I'm beyond the build line, I run around with the building hologram floating in front of me and when it turns red I back up or turn left, and the firing range thing is a meh idea. As was already said, I think experience is the best teacher; however, since I don't believe that Odin lacks experience, I would say that I obviously think differently than the OP, and what appeals to him just seems like a needless addition to me. Maybe it's all of the Tribes/Team Fortress building experience: I guess I'm just too used to error messages.

I hope that is sufficiently original for Kaine, whilst being basically a QFT +1 post. To mooseberry's point, sometimes a couple of DO NOT WANTs & WHAT HE SAIDs give a small cross section of "public reaction" to a suggestion.

Kaine · « **Reply #21 on:** July 01, 2008, 10:50:18 pm »

Well stated.

Mmmmm, Tribes. Now there's a game I can really enjoy putting up remote turret grids in, and swapping out the permanent turrets' cannon types.

What's this about team fortress though? Can't you only build like, one turret in that? (Cool as that one turret may be...)

Paradox · « **Reply #22 on:** July 01, 2008, 11:58:38 pm »

By firing range, are we talking about a glowing circle of range? Because that would be quite cool.

If your just talking about a line infront of the object, screw that.

Ellohir · « **Reply #23 on:** July 02, 2008, 12:08:44 am »

I think grid idea isn't right. It would limitate base-construction a lot. The range idea isn't bad at all, as long as there is some way to turn it off.

Taiyo.uk · « **Reply #24 on:** July 02, 2008, 01:54:49 am »

Quote from: Odin on July 01, 2008, 07:51:41 am

If building were locked to a uniform grid, then builders could actually build faster because they know where they can build based on color codes, and buildings are snapped to a grid.

Let's make Tremulous isometric too.

Odin · « **Reply #25 on:** July 02, 2008, 02:00:47 am »

Quote from: Taiyo.uk on July 02, 2008, 01:54:49 am

Quote from: Odin on July 01, 2008, 07:51:41 am
If building were locked to a uniform grid, then builders could actually build faster because they know where they can build based on color codes, and buildings are snapped to a grid.

Let's make Tremulous isometric too.

As much as that would rock, I don't understand why this thread has to be trolled. All I did was suggest something that was different than the average suggestion. As long as this forum board exists there will be suggestions that you won't necessarily agree with. That doesn't mean you should post things such as that.

Taiyo.uk · « **Reply #26 on:** July 02, 2008, 02:33:08 am »

That was a troll?
I prefer to think of it as a one-line summary of why I disagree with your suggestion. Allow me to expand:

Tiled building would not suit Tremulous as there are no maps designed for grid-based building, building mechanics are designed for non-tiled building and many good bases would not be possible if the structure locations were limited to a grid. It is a form of "dumbing down" that would limit many player's base-building creativity in an attempt to "make things easier" for inexperienced players. The power/no power indication already provided in the form of a message box and the red/green structure models is easily understood. The current arbitrary-positioning building system is not perfect, but far better suited to the Tremulous game mechanics than tiled building.

In other words, tiled building would be appropriate if Tremulous was an isometric game.

Sentinel · « **Reply #27 on:** July 02, 2008, 02:37:12 am »

I want grid players movement

OK, now really, i prefer fixing bug, that cause eggs exploding in unknown or for me invisible bad places...

Lakitu7 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 02, 2008, 02:48:49 am »

Quote from: Sentinel on July 02, 2008, 02:37:12 am

I want grid players movement

OK, now really, i prefer fixing bug, that cause eggs exploding in unknown or for me invisible bad places...

That's still an open one, unfortunately. It happens when you build too close to the wall for people to spawn out of.

Odin · « **Reply #29 on:** July 02, 2008, 02:51:48 am »

Quote from: Taiyo.uk on July 02, 2008, 02:33:08 am

That was a troll?
I prefer to think of it as a one-line summary of why I disagree with your suggestion. Allow me to expand:

Tiled building would not suit Tremulous as there are no maps designed for grid-based building, building mechanics are designed for non-tiled building and many good bases would not be possible if the structure locations were limited to a grid. It is a form of "dumbing down" that would limit many player's base-building creativity in an attempt to "make things easier" for inexperienced players. The power/no power indication already provided in the form of a message box and the red/green structure models is easily understood. The current arbitrary-positioning building system is not perfect, but far better suited to the Tremulous game mechanics than tiled building.

In other words, tiled building would be appropriate if Tremulous was an isometric game.

Thank you. That is the way I would have preferred you say it.

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Author Topic: Tiled Building (Read 34957 times)

Lava Croft

Lava Croft

Lava Croft