Let's just measure them (was: Vertical range of turrets?)

[TinMan]

i think its somthing like this



140 degrees or somthing or 2 meters

There are no meters in tremulous.

[dan003400]

Owned.

[seeeker]

this one took a bit of digging:
turrets can fire up to 90 degrees upward, but only 30 degrees downward. the like most buildables in 1.1(all? it's 11:30 so i don't feel like checking the others), the turret doesn't have a special muzzle: it just uses the entity origin, which happens to be the exact center of the bbox.

=D thanks

[Lava Croft]

There are no meters in tremulous.

From the GtkRadiant manual:

Code: [Select]

In the game world, eight units roughly equal one foot (30.5 cm).This means that around 26 units equals the meter you say is absent in Tremulous.

Owned.

Self-owned.

[TinMan]

Those don't convert cleanly, and even if they did - Quake III was not made with proportions in mind, compare it to UT and you'll notice that.

Those 26 units can be scaled and throw off the entire measurement system.

[Lava Croft]

You said meters do not exist in Tremulous, I just proved to you they do. The fact using meters to gauge distance in Quake-based games is not the smartest thing to do is less important.

Every game is created with proportions in mind, only they differ from game to game, that's why your comparison with UT fails.

[snb]

i was close 20 degrees off it was 120 degrees in all i said 140. also i didnt know the turret fired from the center but i guess that makes sense

[TinMan]

You said meters do not exist in Tremulous, I just proved to you they do. The fact using meters to gauge distance in Quake-based games is not the smartest thing to do is less important.

Every game is created with proportions in mind, only they differ from game to game, that's why your comparison with UT fails.

That number that is given to convert was most likely figured out after the engine was made, as Quake uses it's own units that do not convert to meters in any realistic way, therefore there are not meters in Quake 3.

I could pull any game out, say Commander Keen, measure his helmet in pixels and ratio that with the length across a real helmet, and then say that I have found a Commander Keen mile to be xxxx pixels, that doesn't mean there are miles in Commander Keen.

[Kaleo]

You said meters do not exist in Tremulous, I just proved to you they do. The fact using meters to gauge distance in Quake-based games is not the smartest thing to do is less important.

Every game is created with proportions in mind, only they differ from game to game, that's why your comparison with UT fails.

That number that is given to convert was most likely figured out after the engine was made, as Quake uses it's own units that do not convert to meters in any realistic way, therefore there are not meters in Quake 3.

I could pull any game out, say Commander Keen, measure his helmet in pixels and ratio that with the length across a real helmet, and then say that I have found a Commander Keen mile to be xxxx pixels, that doesn't mean there are miles in Commander Keen.

Wow. Looks like Lava's finally met his match.

Bravo, TinMan, bravo.

[Lava Croft]

@TinMan, since the system of 'game units' is invented for Wolfenstein3D, by John Carmack, one can safely assume that this number of 30.5cm is figured out before, not after the development of Quake.

In fact, every 3D engine from id Software since Wolfenstein 3D uses the same 'game units' to measure distance.

@Kaleo: It's not over until the fat lady sings, so hold your horses!

[TinMan]

From the Q3Radiant manual:
Game Unit: The basic unit of measure in a game map. Eight game units are approximately equal to one foot (30.48 cm) in the “real” world. This measure is also referred to as simply a “unit.”
Approximately doesn't mean equals, it means that it's a rough conversion.
In ET:QW 1 unit is approximately 1 real world inch. - Found on forums xD
If you've ever ported maps from previous Quakes to say, Quake 4, you'd notice that there are a lot of adjustments that have to be made to fix player-to-environment ratios. If these units don't convert too nicely from one engine to the next, how do you expect them to represent real world measurements? I can find no documentation that says that it converts perfectly, they're all "approximate."

[tuple]

Seems to me the concept of meters has been used for some time in quake based games, irregardless of its origin.  It doesn't seem unreasonable to use a rough measure to outline a concept.  Please quit arguing for the sole purpose of not losing.  Think of the children!

[Lava Croft]

Enemy Territory runs on the Quake3 engine and therefore uses the exact same system of 'game units' as all other id Software 3D engines since Wolfenstein 3D. The conversion from game units to metric is merely done to give people an idea of distance. It is by no means an exact measurement, nor did anyone ever said it was.  On the other hands, saying there are no 'meters' in Tremulous is plain incorrect, as I have shown you.

The only reason that maps between different incarnations of Quake do not easily convert is because they are made on a different scale, not because they use a different way to measure distance.

Since tuple has a point, I'll make it easy for you, end this, and say that there are meters in Tremulous.

[TinMan]

lol, way to disobey Tuple.

There are no meters in Tremulous, only game units.

[Bomb]

I think the best way to resolve this is to say:

The game engine itself does not actually use meters. It uses game units. Therefore, there are no meters in Tremulous, except for those we imagine.

[snb]

oh and by the way what are foot or feet? in what your trying say in your sentances

[Rhez]

12 inches equals 1 foot
1 inch is about 3 centimeters
12x3=36cm
About 36cm is one foot...

[seeeker]

from foot definition on http://dictionary.reference.com/

foot: noun, plural feet for 1–4, 8–11, 16, 19, 21; foots for 20; verb

(foots... o_O?)

[Bissig]

from foot definition on http://dictionary.reference.com/

foot: noun, plural feet for 1–4, 8–11, 16, 19, 21; foots for 20; verb

(foots... o_O?)

20 foots to the guillotine? 8-)

[snb]

ohthats right american measurments

[player1]

While we're way off-topic, here's a brain teaser for you: What are the diamonds on an English units (in.-ft.-yd.) tape measure for?

[Rocinante]

Stud markings (16" on center)

[player1]

Nope, not those marks. My bad. I mean the ones that aren't part of the 16-32-48-inch system; the lonely black ones every 19.2 inches.

[Rocinante]

Hm, okay that one I don't remember but will probably have a nice forehead slap when you eventually reveal the answer.

[Kaleo]

I seem to recall seeing some no-draw-non-solid textures that gave dimensions for radiant. There was one for metres, centimetres etc.

I think they were for JKII, but I can't find them.

Also, there's an entity.def file you can get for UrT mapping that had heights and widths of players/jumping ranges etc. Maybe one of these for Trem would be a good idea.

[player1]

Roc:

Let's say you're a carpenter, and you want to break up 8 feet into an a certain number of parts. Hmm, 2 parts, that's easy, 4 feet each, and a nice reference mark at 48 inches. How about 3 parts? That's easy, too: 32 inches, again a nice multiple of 16, again nicely marked. What about 4 parts? Why that would be 24 inches, also, a nice mark every two feet. Wow, this is pretty easy. I could break it into 6 or 8 parts pretty easy, that's every 16 inches (again, nicely marked) and every 12 inches (ditto), respectively. But how do you quickly lay out 5 parts in eight feet? Black diamond. (7 parts would also be hard to do, but 5 is a much more useful divisor.) I believe this is also the standard in some areas for metal stud spacing. You are now a fully trained journey-person, and can get people to buy you drinks.

OK, now back to turret discussions.

[Kaleo]

Metric > Imperial

[TinMan]

Unreal has approximate relations to real-life measurements too: http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:General_Scale_And_Dimensions , still something that's not perfect, but is useful for designing an environment with somewhat realistic proportions to the player.

I think Bomb summed up whether or not there are meters in Tremulous best

@Kaleo: Yes, I've used those before, for Quake 3 DeFRaG mapping it was very important that you payed attention to spaces between jump gaps to make sure that the player could reach a velocity fast enough to clear the gap with no more room and no less room to leave to chance, that way the sport had more emphasis on precision of movement.

[Lava Croft]

Since NASA uses the metric system in space, there are no yards in space. Or feet.
The fact that one can convert metric to imperial, or game units to metric, seems to be unimportant.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

so okay mister shopkeeper plz gimme your largest cpuprocessor core, imean it shouddabe like atleast like dat 37  centimeter long and as thick as my fist cuzzeye mathematicized out dat then it owns my last one like thuzzand times oneoneonez.