ATCS Unfair for Aliens

[Rawr]

Of the times that i play, the aliens have a huge disadvantage unless you have a super |337 playing with you. it makes it nearly impossible to combat it. also, when the humans get a jetpack and fly up high, theres no stopping them till they run out of ammo. a dragoon cant jump that high even with pounce.

[Ksempac]

ATCS is well-balanced.

If the jetpack guy is so high you cant hit him with a goon then he is armless...he wont be able to shoot aliens. Only noobs think they can actually get frags by camping in the sky. That's not the purpose of the jetpack.

Moreover, acid tubes near human entrance can do wonders against jetpack

[Rawr]

what about sniper (the only gun that zooms) or the lucifer cannon that can do alot of damage with a longer range?

[redalert]

ok in atcs the human base defenses can only go so far so if aliens trap the right way they can do alot of damage. For example me a newb got 39 kills by the end of the game. Plus the narrow hallways are perfect for dretch.

[benplaut]

wait.. the mass driver zooms?!!?

btw, jetpack camping does work if you're using a lasgun

[Moofed]

wait.. the mass driver zooms?!!?

LOL That just never gets old.  

[Henners]

Yes, but not because of your reasoning.

ATCS is horribly unbalanced because the aliens have no where to run. Its such a small linear map that it really should be over as soon as humans hit S2, as a couple of humans can rampage through the alien base in seconds wih helmets and pulserifles.

At this point on most maps, the aliens can scatter, and distribute eggs etc across the map, keeping them alive whilst they build up their collective strength. ATCS has no way of doing this, since the map is so small and so linear, so the aliens just lose.

The only way for aliens to win ATCS is to get a massive early advantage from idiotic human feeding. Once humans get to stage 2 it really should be all over if the humans know what they are doing.

[Basilisco]

The advantage that humans have in this map is not because of the jetpack, nor the pulse rifles. It's because of the grenades and painsaws that alien normally lose.

You can have 4 humans going rushing the alien base in like minute 3 of a game. If aliens haven't set some proper defense they'll surely lose.

If the game last until stage 2, the grenades will do the job. In a map where everything is together grenades can do miracles.

The aliens can win only if:

a) the humans feed
b) the humans make a bad reactor move
c) the humans build all the turrets at the entrances and not near main base.

Having a pro alien in the team always helps, but feeding is the key factor. In balanced teams the first that reach a higher stage tends to win.

[[db@]Megabite]

I have seen enough games on atcs where aliens controlled the map, blocking both exits of the human base.
That usually changes with some BSuits rushing out and attacking the alien base. If that base is well developed, full of grenade-safe tubes/hives it is not easy to rush and 2 non-noob grangers can easily hold until alien s3 and/or sudden death.

This does not work on overcrowded servers, of course. This map is fine and well balanced for up to maybe 16 players, providing you have no idiots in the alien team...

Danny

[Neo]

The main problem comes when humans build teslas around their starting base location, with a small exit for luci spammers. After that it just becomes frustrating to play more than anything so most aliens just don't bother and leave.

[Timbo]

[[db@]Megabite]

So statistically a game with 12 players is perfectly balanced? Less players put aliens in favor, more players humans?

Interesting, but not quite unexpected...

Danny

[PHREAK]

2 good adv maras can make that map hell for humans.

I always though that map was alien biased since anout 70% of all the games I played there, aliens won.
Humans cant help but feed there, especially going the back way. A goon and a few good dretches can kill a whole lot of humans in those corrdors, regardles of what stage thay are at.

In any game and map, once aliend reach s3, all have to go in and kill the reactor. Doesnt matter if you die in the process since humans are easily taken care of with dretches once defences are down. After the reactor kill, just go for the builders. just dont stop attacking once it's down.

[hodge]

ATCS is well-balanced.

If the jetpack guy is so high you cant hit him with a goon then he is armless...he wont be able to shoot aliens. Only noobs think they can actually get frags by camping in the sky. That's not the purpose of the jetpack.

Moreover, acid tubes near human entrance can do wonders against jetpack

I completely agree with both of your statements, ATCS is one of the more balanced. The idea with ATCS is that your over mind is already in a good place and that you have to defend it, I find that moving the over mind to the middle is a bad idea most of the times, humans can easily nade it at s2. As an alien it's important to get to s2 as quickly as possible so your builders can build acid and a trapper on the wall and that the attacker's defend the base against humans.

Also jetpacks are almost completly useless in ATCS.

[Paradox]

ATCS is the coagulation of tremulous. Each team has IDENTICAL bases, and the winning is based purely on skill and strategy. If the humans start spamming the jpacks, just ignore them. Thell get bored soon, and make a base rush. Then mow them down with tyrants and goons.

[Markimedes]

I have to disagree with the above statement, perfectly identical bases are not perfectly balanced.
A human ideal base would be something like a long corridor wide enough for three turrets, with enough space for players to maneuver around.
An Alien base would be something with.. alot of corners, places to hide tubes, jagged ceilings for trappers, a corner to hide the om in, and outlying little nooks and crannies for hidden eggs, and lots more space to maneuver around in.


ATSC does a good job of blending these characteristics into two identical bases, but no map will EVER be perfectly balanced, no matter how well constructed it is.
It does depends alot more on the players, if aliens can keep a good offensive going, it is possible that the construction of their base never plays a role in their victory. Same with humans.. but less likely.

[Neo]

Well you wouldn't want to give each side their perfect base else you'll end up with a stalemate every time. What ATCS does is provide a kind of 50/50, so its more skill than anything else.

[redalert]

Although i agree about the ATCS balance i dont think its a matter of skill but of pure and sheer dumb luck in ATCS the only strat that works for humans is hiding in their base and the only strat that works for aliens is camping the human base just outside of it.(This is entirely my opinion and i anyone feels they can correct me without flaming me please do so, i need the help )

[Jex]

http://tremulous.net/balance/atcs.png

[Markimedes]

So about average balance wise? Would be cool to have the balance on all the maps, are they posted somewhere?

[OverFlow]

http://tremulous.net/balance/atcs.png

WAY TO ADD A BUNCH OF NEW INFO TO THE THREAD.

<.<


>.>

[Survivor]

Although i agree about the ATCS balance i dont think its a matter of skill but of pure and sheer dumb luck in ATCS the only strat that works for humans is hiding in their base and the only strat that works for aliens is camping the human base just outside of it.(This is entirely my opinion and i anyone feels they can correct me without flaming me please do so, i need the help )

Camping just outside their base? Where they can run to cover easily? Best is to lure them in an ambush further away, the centertop is excellent for this. You have more time to finish them that way and more room to move in and escape.
Humans moving in groups are pretty powerful against the higher evolves like marauder and goon. The marauder is disadvantaged though because of the sloped walls but it doesn't really have a big impact on the game as a whole. When they get advanced goon and tyrant the tables turn again.

[Neo]

So about average balance wise? Would be cool to have the balance on all the maps, are they posted somewhere?

http://tremulous.net/balance/atcs.png

just change atcs to:

niveus
tremor
nexus6
transit
uncreation
karith
arachnid2

[Jex]

WAY TO ADD A BUNCH OF NEW INFO TO THE THREAD.

whoops!

probably should have read the whole thread first >.>

[Markimedes]

Although i agree about the ATCS balance i dont think its a matter of skill but of pure and sheer dumb luck in ATCS the only strat that works for humans is hiding in their base and the only strat that works for aliens is camping the human base just outside of it.(This is entirely my opinion and i anyone feels they can correct me without flaming me please do so, i need the help )

Not entirely true, sometimes you have to chase the aliens. With guns. Quickly.

Or they will all get away!
Every time.
Unless they are a dretch (I see it spelled Drench alot, which is odd, because Dretch sounds better, and I believe it is the actual spelling..) in which case the turrets do a decent job of defense.

Skill is still a major factor though, if not THE major factor, luck doesn't really play a role as far as I know.

Also, thanks Neo, I was going to try that, but I didn't, for some odd reason. I'll take a look, maybe I will get a little bit more justification for my losses out of it.

[werepants]

I see it spelled Drench alot, which is odd, because Dretch sounds better, and I believe it is the actual spelling

i've noticed that too lol.....  drench am teh R0XX0RZ!!!one!!!1!