Author Topic: The problem with Trem...and how we can fix it!  (Read 9028 times)

Bullislander05

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The problem with Trem...and how we can fix it!
« on: August 09, 2008, 02:58:37 am »
Okay guys, I've been trying to wean myself off of trem lately due to a major problem I'm finding with it that I'm surprised took me 2 years to find...

Anyways, my #1 gripe lately has been the (lack of) teamwork.  Trem was designed as a game with two specific TEAMS.  Aliens and humans.  Yet nowadays if you go on ANY public server, teamwork means competing with your teammates to see how many kills you can get.  No longer (or ever, save in scrims and competitive matches) do teams work for a common goal unless members of the team are very close and respect each other.

This I would suppose could come from a few sources.  I would say the most important being a poorly defined goal for teams.  The ultimate goal of a team is to penetrate to the enemies base to kill their spawns, builders, and players (In roughly that order).  As soon as that is completed, the game is won and a new one begins.  Sadly, I'm finding more and more often that people get caught up in the minutiae of the game, and try to focus on what THEY are killing instead of focusing on what THEIR TEAM is DOING to win.  The game has turned into a battle of individual killwhores and has no trace anymore of a team working towards a common goal.  More often than not, games are won only when the top 3 killwhores on a team just happen to rush the enemies base at the same time, and do massive damage.  Or games are won by a single rambo who manages to wreak havoc on the enemies as he approached their base and then kill the base one life at a time.

Basically, it all comes down to teammates not playing like such.

Let me give you guys an example of a game that has goals clearly defined for players and actually makes working as a team something that MUST be done or the game WILL be lost (unlike trem).  TF2.  Now those of you that have never played the game, please don't say "TF2 sucks," or other related, unhelpful comments.  At the very least pay my attempt to help the game with enough respect to shoot down the following claims of mine with poise and precise rebuttals.  Basically, for those of you that have played the game, you know that teamwork is a necessary element to it.  There are whole classes that exist solely to work with others of a team to achieve a goal.  Goals are clearly defined (CTF, cap points, Payload, etc..) and are understood by everyone.  So when someone says "look, their intel [flag in CTF] is (someplace)," within seconds an expeditionary force is assembled to penetrate to the intel and often succeeds, unless the opposing team works together to repel them.

This leads to much better gameplay, because people feel like they're part of a team, even though everyone on their team is just a bunch of strangers.  A bond is created, and often friends are made easier that provides for a somewhat nicer community.

Okay.  Enough rambling.  You're probably wondering how this has anything to do with trem.

Well, basically, teammates in trem need to begin to change their mindset from "What can I kill next?" to "What can I do next to help kill the enemy base?"  I know.  It's a lofty goal.  Changing the way people THINK.  Oh lord.  But really, just imagine situations where there were certain team "leaders" who organized attacks, helped build bases, and all in all provided a sense of clarity to the game.  So since I obviously don't expect EVERYONE to read this guide, or even follow it (Hell, I can bet 25% of the people reading it, if not more, will just write it off because I mentioned another game.), and especially not to have the game changed in any way, I would propose a challenge to those who DO read it and agree with me.

You need to improve gameplay by doing the following:

1.  When games start, make sure that your team has a defined set of "leaders".  Even if it leads to some bickering early, if you can manage to get even half of your team involved, the rest of the team will follow suit most of the time, or you can just take care of them by asking them to leave or whatever.  Basically, let your team know in the beginning of the round that there needs to be a leader to manage attacking and defending or maybe one of each.
2.  Reasoning with heretic players, and if they refuse to join in the charade, quickly do something (obviously not against the rules of the server you're on) to show them that they will fail alone.
3.  Making friends.  The more people you know in-game, the more likely you are to have people that respect you enough to go with a plan of yours if you make it.

Now imagine if trem teams actually did have "leaders" and these leaders had half a brain and managed to get their team to win with a punctual sweet attack on the enemies bases.  Would you have fun then, or not?  Eventually, if people start doing this often, games will become more competitive, leading to more fun for all.

Any suggestions/comments please post in a polite, calm, and reasoned approach.  I'm just going to ignore people who make silly claims.

Archangel

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Re: The problem with Trem...and how we can fix it!
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2008, 06:32:09 am »
This is why clans exist.

Adlibitum

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Re: The problem with Trem...and how we can fix it!
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2008, 07:05:29 am »
I'm going to agree with Inaki on this one. If you want to make "friends" and actually have "teamwork" then join a clan, and start scrimming. The main reason I join public servers is to have a bit of fun. if this means killwhoring while advancing my teams stage counter then so be it.

Lava Croft

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Re: The problem with Trem...and how we can fix it!
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2008, 10:26:19 am »
You don't need to be part of any clan to have proper teamwork. All it requires if for you to frequent a server and make friends there, and you will automatically start teamplaying. Unless your friends are stupid.

KamikOzzy

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Re: The problem with Trem...and how we can fix it!
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2008, 01:01:28 pm »
The real problem is that so many of us have had no lives for three (or more) years and are now so good compared to beginners that to try and make a cooperative effort with them is hardly ever worth the time it takes to type out a plan.
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Lava Croft

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Re: The problem with Trem...and how we can fix it!
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2008, 01:27:11 pm »
Games without any teamplaying occur less than games with teamplaying, is my experience. It's just that the games that lack teamplay are usually so annoying that they stick in your head much longer. It's human nature to remember the negative things, not the positive things. Most Tremulous games I play are on the positive side of the scale, not the negative.

Teamplaying does not require anyone to type out a plan, it requires one or two established players to take point and lead one or two squads to the opposing base. Usually, this occurs in a organic way, people see the guy with the big gun (and maybe high kill count) spam 'Come On!', a few newbies follow, and not short after most people are following the leader(s) and you have teamplay. You cannot force people to teamplay, so it's better to just keep showing them the benefits. Even the thickest bastard will eventually see the profit that comes from teamplaying.

temple

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Re: The problem with Trem...and how we can fix it!
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2008, 04:04:25 pm »
Teamplaying does not require anyone to type out a plan, it requires one or two established players to take point and lead one or two squads to the opposing base. Usually, this occurs in a organic way, people see the guy with the big gun (and maybe high kill count) spam 'Come On!', a few newbies follow, and not short after most people are following the leader(s) and you have teamplay. You cannot force people to teamplay, so it's better to just keep showing them the benefits. Even the thickest bastard will eventually see the profit that comes from teamplaying.
Agreed

Bissig

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Re: The problem with Trem...and how we can fix it!
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2008, 01:06:09 am »
Most servers don't have chat or "chatter". Meaning: I log into one server, my teammates won't say a word. I ask them if it is ok to do this or that. I ask them to assist me. No reaction at all. If you happen to play on such servers: Get a better taste ;-) On good servers the chat is used frequently to inform others about enemy movements, about much needed buildings etc...

rotacak

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Re: The problem with Trem...and how we can fix it!
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2008, 08:44:28 pm »
True true...
If you will see in game spartans (with @sparta in name), you can be sure he will help you with attacking like team.

Dracone

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Re: The problem with Trem...and how we can fix it!
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2008, 09:14:43 pm »
So we need claw signals. Tyrants will move their slicerz such as this:

Left slicer straight out to side: Follow
Right slicer straight out to side: Stay where you are
Both slicers straight up in the air: Fuck you teammates get the fuck out and go delete Breathing.exe irl.

Only one of these is actually necessary.
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KamikOzzy

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Re: The problem with Trem...and how we can fix it!
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2008, 11:20:52 pm »
Only one of these is actually necessary.

I believe I can accurately guess which one :)
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Dracone

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Re: The problem with Trem...and how we can fix it!
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2008, 12:29:36 am »
Yeah, you tell them to follow you and then jump into the bottomless pit at Arachnid2.

I can't believe they actually fell for that though.
Quote from: St. Anger
Tip 4 baslick guiz: Make sure you get near them bc u can stiky them i think its a bug lolz. but dont tell 2 many ppl shh.
Quote from: dobruiyyk
It's possible, your descendant will never see the sun because our species is gonna extinct in nearest future. So you better unstick from your computer and find a girl to make a child with!

AppleJuice

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Re: The problem with Trem...and how we can fix it!
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2008, 12:54:17 am »
Joining a clan isn't exactly a viable solution...any combination of the following three things happen:
1) There aren't any other clans online to scrim.
2) If there are, they refuse to scrim.
3) They scrim, but the disparity in skill is so great that no real strategy is needed (referring to the original problem).

The exception: when the top 3-4 clans scrim, but that happens maybe once a week at most, and even then not everyone in those clans are able to scrim.  Establishing strategy in public games is the only real (current) option for someone who wants to enjoy some teamplay.  This will become especially true come September, once school begins again.
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