Public servers

[PHREAK]

Well we all know what the deal is. Trem has become popular enough where even the "good" severs have become populated with fresh meat.
And while all of us have started the same way, these morons just wont listen of follow direction in any shape or form.
Builders are my biggest issue.
I see so many grangers attack, build trappers on the ground and keep rebuilding the OM in original location, regradles of the fact that humans were able to desroy it 3 times before.
Then we have the human builders replacing all turrets with teslas at s3 while placing the DC so a dretch can take it. Or placing all defenses at the entrances, mostly blocking them for humans as well, while the reactor, armory, etc sit in peace and quite waiting to be destroyed by a lone adv mara.
Another thing is dretches on floors.
Regardles of how many times one tells them to press C and wallwalk, they still prefer leading tyrants and goons into battle. I guess there is more pride in that.
Aside from blocking everything bigger then you, you are also very easy meat. While killing a dretch whos moving on all 4 axis is a pain in the butt, killing 5 on the floor is cake.
While I know that private servers /clan servers are the answer to this, I still like playing on AKKA the most. (we'll untill all these new players came)

Rather then doing anything radical, we should give them a chance to learn.
Yet how do you teach someone who simply won't listen and doesn't give a flying toot about anything u have to say.
Does anyone have any intelegent suggestions on how to get more players to go from shitty to decent or is this a lost cause?
How about training maps...something.

Any ideas are good ideas

[SLAVE|Mietz]

Well we all know what the deal is. Trem has become popular enough where even the "good" severs have become populated with fresh meat.
And while all of us have started the same way, these morons just wont listen of follow direction in any shape or form.
Builders are my biggest issue.
I see so many grangers attack, build trappers on the ground and keep rebuilding the OM in original location, regradles of the fact that humans were able to desroy it 3 times before.
Then we have the human builders replacing all turrets with teslas at s3 while placing the DC so a dretch can take it. Or placing all defenses at the entrances, mostly blocking them for humans as well, while the reactor, armory, etc sit in peace and quite waiting to be destroyed by a lone adv mara.
Another thing is dretches on floors.
Regardles of how many times one tells them to press C and wallwalk, they still prefer leading tyrants and goons into battle. I guess there is more pride in that.
Aside from blocking everything bigger then you, you are also very easy meat. While killing a dretch whos moving on all 4 axis is a pain in the butt, killing 5 on the floor is cake.
While I know that private servers /clan servers are the answer to this, I still like playing on AKKA the most. (we'll untill all these new players came)

Rather then doing anything radical, we should give them a chance to learn.
Yet how do you teach someone who simply won't listen and doesn't give a flying toot about anything u have to say.
Does anyone have any intelegent suggestions on how to get more players to go from shitty to decent or is this a lost cause?
How about training maps...something.

Any ideas are good ideas

I like the idea of having maybe a "game-counter" that counts the games you played on the internet, and then in the server-options you could set up a barrier to prevent "noobs" in joining servers that play "leet" games.

On the other side you could also set up a server with "training"-maps, where the users with a high "game-count" wont be able to join.

It would be like level-restriction in a RPG, you cant get to a part of the map where you are dangerous for yourself and others.

[Basilisco]

I like the idea of having maybe a "game-counter" that counts the games you played on the internet, and then in the server-options you could set up a barrier to prevent "noobs" in joining servers that play "leet" games.

On the other side you could also set up a server with "training"-maps, where the users with a high "game-count" wont be able to join.

It would be like level-restriction in a RPG, you cant get to a part of the map where you are dangerous for yourself and others.

What about pros that dont play much? Or newbies that play a lot and keep doing crappy bases and feeding?

Probably servers labeled as "TRAINING" servers are a good idea. But most people want their servers to be the "popular" server around.
Maybe admins could talk to eachother to be the "training server of the week/month" and keep rotating the "training" label.

[Catalyc]

In that case the 'good' newbies would be thrown into servers with a bunch of people that barely know how to play the game, it isn't exactly the best impression. New players will always need better players to learn from, especially with the steep learning curve trem has, I've been playing for quite a bit and I still learn something new every now and then.

If anything, I think there should be a way to ban people from using ckits and/or granger. >_>

[korc]

In that case the 'good' newbies would be thrown into servers with a bunch of people that barely know how to play the game, it isn't exactly the best impression. New players will always need better players to learn from, especially with the steep learning curve trem has, I've been playing for quite a bit and I still learn something new every now and then.

If anything, I think there should be a way to ban people from using ckits and/or granger. >_>

Maybe there should be some kind of 'mentor' system, so that some people don't have admin rights, but maybe are able to display an annoying message constantly to newbie until he will complete task written in message?

kill/killed rate should be good enough to measure when people get out of 'newbie' status... maybe not even give newbies right to build anything at all, if most of the other players (in the same team?) are not newbies?

[Catalyc]

Killing means nothing, anyone can buy a flamethrower or a luci and shoot dretches.

[someloser]

a good way to fix this would be to implement some kind of leveled server access, like the bbb cs servers from a few years back. say we have 3 levels (or maybe stages )

first stage, free for all. (except stage 2 n 3, maybe let s2 join if server not full)

seconds stage, everyone with a kill/death ratio of more than, say 2, on stage 1 servers are allowed to play (maybe stage 1 and 3 also, if server not full)

third stage invite only by other 3rd stage players, populate it by same rules as how to advance to stage 2, until a well sized playerbase have developed (maybe stage 2 players also, if the server is not full)

also, not only invites, it should be possible to de-vite a player not fitting for that stage

more stages can be added later, as skill deversity and playerbase increases

[Neo]

Simple answer is everyone would play on stage one servers. As no matter your skill level you'd want to play on servers where there are actually people playing. Also it isn't exactly friendly to casual gamers.

[Paradox]

KillaZ server is pretty clean. We have lots of admins (almost anyone with a killaz tag), and dont take any shit. For example, Killer was debuilding, and blocking after being told to move SEVERAL times. He is now ip banned, on 2 computers. He was banned on one, and then reconnected, and was banned again.

KillaZ server is fairly clean, and i have only had to kick anyone because of AFK. Sure, high and hosler have banned a few, but other than those annoyances, it is a clean server.

[Teiman]

You sould build teamwork, chat with people on your team, and ask If you think are newbies. If some people admit his newbie, I think will admit a few suggestions. You can also repeat suggestions as you see bad ideas. If yours suggestions seems usefull and good, some people will follow for good.

[PHREAK]

You sould build teamwork, chat with people on your team, and ask If you think are newbies. If some people admit his newbie, I think will admit a few suggestions. You can also repeat suggestions as you see bad ideas. If yours suggestions seems usefull and good, some people will follow for good.

Good in theory but problem is, way to many people won't listen.
Just last night I played a game on Nexus 6 on AKKA as human.
I started getting turrets over to the corridor, getting ready to move base and nicelly tuck away the reactor when this dude decons the reactor and places it smack in the corner of the corridor. Any moron can snipe it there, but i figured "too late now, we'll go with it" I'm not the type that fights about badly placed reactor.
So I make all the goodies such as armory, med right next to it, etc and secure the inside of the base with turrets so people dont get eaten by maras when buying or healing. Few minutes later he decons ALL the turrets and starts placing them at the entrance with the door. only one turret left on the other entrance, where the reactor now chills out.
Guess what happened? Maras didnt even look at the turrets. Jumped over them and right into the undefended base...TA DA, game over.

Humans expect the turrets and teslas to make the kills for them, rather then defend the base. They try to place turrets so far away from the reactor and armory and sit on them.
Most good aliens wont even bother with those turrest since they really are nothing but lost points for the hummies.
Another game same night, we finaly reached s3 around the same time aliens did, so tyrants started rushing. The base was at a great position so tyrants didnt have it good at all and layed off. Meanwhile, hummies start defending the base with lucy's, flamers and nades (as ussual).
Few adv maras jump into base and let the humans do the dirty work for them, destroying everything them selves but the reactor (tyrants took that one)
Funniest this was the discussion about FF afterwards.
OMGZ, FF ONZ??? WTF YO, LYARZ, CHEATRZ WTF, etc
When I suggested defending base with painsaw only i got a nice STFU NOOB. Hmm

[Markimedes]

This is a problem that all multiplayer games have, and should only be addressed by those with enough heart to address it of their own free will. It should not be addressed by any in-game system made by developers of the game. Perhaps an addition to the downloaded player manual, but nothing drastic.

On Battle.net what you usually see is.. let me think.
4vs.4 NO NEWBS!!1one one one
Or the less common slightly more creative variety-
2vs.2 PROS ONLY.

I do not believe that a newb (not meant in a insulting fashion, simply as a statement of relative skill) will continue in his/her bad habitish ways for a long period of time, unless he/she is intending to do so. In which case, by all means, ban them, kick them, swallow their soul, a plague on all their houses.

In all games there are newbs, and in all games the natural progression leads them out of newb-hood. It is really something that shouldn't even really be mentioned much, as it is a good sign of a healthy gaming community.



I do not mean to imply that nothing should be done about it, the natural progression should be aided by artificial intervention in all ways possible. Help newbs, show them the way, without restricting them.

Training servers are a good idea, and the many guides posted on this forum can help any newb move into a less newbish world. (Especially building guides, which I think here should be more of).

Also, passworded servers don't seem to happen often on Tremulous. If they were used, a simple post on this forum telling everyone the password to your server would filter out the non-forum readers, which would in turn filter out many of the unsavory 'newbs' (This would of course lead to a decline in the popularity of your server, but you have to lose a little to exclude a few)

[IFinland]

Markimedes has his point which I agree fully.
"newbs/noobs/nobos" shouldn't be kicked out, unless they are disturbing a clanmatch or so... they should be teached.

If you want to get rid of noobs, the best way to do that is to reduce their number by making them a decent players. If those 'noobs' are always on the same server where you are, give them a hand and make them your team mates and show them "how it's done".

We were all noobs once.  :wink:

[Neo]

imho there is always a distinction.

You have your typical newbie, who will either watch what you're doing and follow your example or he will follow what has worked in other games until he learns/is taught otherwise. They rarely go as builders as they see how everyone treats builders who make little mistakes(which ironically come from the veteran players who pretty much scream 'OMG WTF BUILDER NOOB'), ie. putting the reactor 3 pixels left of the optimal safe spot.

Then you have the noobs, who will show you how to play properly even though its their first game. They will make you play their way as clearly they are superior and you can never see the grand scheme or be on their level. These are the ones who have attitude issues and you will never get too, and tend to talk as if copy-pasting from a cell phone dictionary.

Players can be newbies depending on their game skills, being a noob takes grooming and/or genetics.

[Teiman]

The base was at a great position so tyrants didnt have it good at all and layed off. Meanwhile, hummies start defending the base with lucy's, flamers and nades (as ussual).
Few adv maras jump into base and let the humans do the dirty work for them, destroying everything them selves but the reactor (tyrants took that one)
Funniest this was the discussion about FF afterwards.
OMGZ, FF ONZ??? WTF YO, LYARZ, CHEATRZ WTF, etc
When I suggested defending base with painsaw only i got a nice STFU NOOB. Hmm

Well.

This game is soo good, even include social strategy. Noobs will join your team, and nowdays noobs will be leet players on the future. You need to manage that to win. The other team also have noobs.

[icono[celt]]

Yes other teams have n00bs, but a new dretch feeding and a new human base building are totally different games.  The dretch gives away kills which added together can give away the game, but the builder kills any team that isn't really good (assuming average alien team). Humans can't win against good aliens without a solid base, all aliens need is a spawn and an overmind, humans need the reactor, the armory (with a terrible hitbox), the telenodes, the medistation; it's obvious bad building, or noob building can screw you big time.

I've been playing for a while now and I still feel like I'm learning about base building, since each game is different.  Maybe the move worked last time, but this time the game was over in 3 minutes, what went wrong.  You can't evaluate that kind of stuff without a foundation of knowledge, which is why I took the advice one veteran screamed at me my first game when I tried building, "OMG U F****NG N00B BUILDER, READ THE FORUMS RETAERD."  So I did, then I watched people, then I tried it myself.  So I was a newbie.

THE N00BS DON'T LISTEN.  That's their makeup.  Tell them the turrets they place are going to be goon meat and they snort.  Tell them the entry is now safe, but maras are going to jump all over the reactor and the swear at you.  Tell them the mass of turrets they just placed: one, can't all fire since they're blocking each other and two that since they're so close when one goes all of them will be damaged, if not destroyed; and they call you a n00b.

What I say is help that first time builder, give them pointers, direct them to the forums, the manual, whatever.  Then if they're newbs they'll take it graciously and play, the game brightened by that moment of learning.  If they're n00bs they'll just put the def comp on top of a big box in an open area and decon all the turrets, saying "TELSAS ARE BETUR "

[Quaoar]

I just played with a fellow who was trying to cooperate, but was being a little reckless and didn't know how to base build, but he took to ckit right away so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. He was eventually deconning the entire base because we were planning a move, but didn't quite do it yet. But he stopped when I told him to stop. I've only been playing for a couple weeks, and I'm a very lousy shot and a lousy alien player (I should try more), but I do notice a whole lot of things that drive me insane from builders who claim to be dedicated to their craft.

It's mostly when they don't stagger turrets. Sometimes it's hard to notice exactly what caused your getaway or your precarious backpeddle away from a goon to go terribly wrong, but it's been apparent on more than one occasion that getting stuck in front of your turrets was the cause of death.

Or when they refuse to think about moving. Transit ends very quickly that way.

Replacing all turrets with teslas, or building teslas smack in the middle of a long hallway (adv goon fodder), or not having any inner-base defenses. One of these or more must happen in 95% of games. It's nearly a certainty. Staggering turrets happens most often, but that's cause sometimes it's hard to really get them placed correctly on the first try. But an active builder who doesn't always have something to do all the time, especially early on, might want to take the time to fine-tune turret placement.

[kozak6]

We just lost a game because of a noob builder.

It was at Transit, and we were finishing up an egg hunt.  We were doing pretty good, and the bugs would have been finished within 5 minutes.

When, all of a sudden, a noob builder decons the base and trys to set up camp down at the beach.  He put down the reactor, a spawn, and 4 minutes later, the armory.

Oops.

It ended quickly.

[icono[celt]]

This has kind of turned into the share your noob builder story thread, and I'll just pile more wood on that fire.

Quaoar, totally, I can't stand people that don't bother understanding how the automatic defenses work, and how aliens can circumvent them.  Its like s3 comes around with its magical battlesuits and amazingly destructive lucy cannons and every builder missing half a brain assumes that teslas are frickin death beam generators from Mars that can stymie any assault no matter how they are placed.

They shoot through walls people, you say.  You decon and move it around a corner out of the middle of the hall.  They decon and build it again.  You restate youreself more forcefully and move it back.  Repeat ad nauseum, until the Tyrants come and kill you both. Of the 95% occurences you mention I get annoyed by this the most, but it happens the least, since bad building makes it hard to get to s3.  

I hate it when a dedicated builder doesn't get any love.  You say move, and silence comes back.  You say cover the reactor, and the only ones that come are aliens.  It makes me cry.  But then its late and I didn't sleep last night.  Damn you tremulous, you are like karachi on the computer. lol

[Heathbo]

How about the system or computer keeps track of the kills a player does.  Until the player gets enough the game puts the word Noob in front or behind their name.  Or maybe the game could keep track of what your average currency level is.

[rasz_pl]

ok my n00b builder story here http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=9288#9288