Gloom a camper paradise

[Paradox]

Gloom 2 is a camper paradise. The human base has only one way in, and turrets/teslas can be put all around this, making it impenetrable. The alien base is awful, with 2 ways into it, and very hard to protect. Games on Gloom usually lead to a human win, or a tie. Occasionally on full servers, youl get an alien team made up of 3/4 adv goons, and a few tyrants. These still are hard to win, but the goons can make it possible, then the tyrant rushes in and finishes the job.

What i propose to fix this map is to put another hallway into the human base. Make it so they have to defend 2 fronts instead of 1. Also, make it a HALL, not another staircase, because they will do the turret thing to 2 staircases.

[Markimedes]

I was present in the game that I beleive sparked this topic, and Humans definitely need another hallway leading into their base, perhaps across that open air next to the staircase. Otherwise they are impenetrable.

[Jex]

Sounds like you're playing Gloom 2 Beta 1.

Gloom 2 Beta 2 is available here: http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=784

The balance is rather improved from Beta 1:

http://tremulous.net/balance/gloom2beta1.png
http://tremulous.net/balance/gloom2beta2.png

[[db@]Megabite]

Did you play beta1 or beta2 of this map?

Danny

[Markimedes]

Nope, it was Beta2.

However, it may be due to the boosted build points on Killaz server.

[Jex]

perhaps across that open air next to the staircase

this sounds more like beta 2..

marauders and dragoons are both able to get into the upper level from the  space beside the stairs. they are also able to escape again this way. perhaps a change of tactics would help?

i myself have only played the map 3 or 4 times, so i am far from having witnessed the extent of what is capable on the map.

[Markimedes]

A change of tactics might help, but the location of the staircase means that most if not all of defenses placed in that location will guard both fronts. Making such assaults with broods weaker than Tyrant completely useless, and a tyrant can't get up there.

Again, the build points boost on Killaz server might be at fault in this instance, there were enough teslas at that staircase to kill a tyrant that stopped moving for any amount of time. (2-3 seconds I estimate)

[[db@]Megabite]

I played the map a dozen times or so and only once humans were able to win against an organized alien team.
Have not played human on it yet, but making access to the original human base even easier would make the map unplayable for humans.

Rushing the base is possible, even with a good human team some hearty tyrants can crack the nut at sudden death.

Danny

[Survivor]

Megabite, the main difference is three things. We play on teams that almost all only play the beta maps and know them; we play with less players than akka; and the build points.
Now the only valid one I see is the number of players.
Hell I love to enter the base as an adv basilisk just to annoy their unguarded reactor and spawns. If you up the build points you can be sure the defenses will be stronger than the mapper intended. I imagine when all humans are camping on top of the stairs it being hard but well, akka is like a 30 player server and we usually play 12. 6 campers vs 15 is a strong difference. But then again, adv goons can snipe just about anything including the reactor from below.

[[db@]Megabite]

The point is, that this (and many other, like atcs) map is not designed for games with 30 people and more build points.
No point in blaming the map then, is there?

Danny

[Markimedes]

It was 4 people.. =p

[[db@]Megabite]

As previously said, with 100 buildpoints it is possible, even likely, that aliens will win on gloom2beta2.

Danny

[Paradox]

we have glooom2beta2 on killaz, and it is almost impossible for aliens to win on our increase bp server.

[kozak6]

I wish there was more junk in that one big open room.  With the doors, it makes it very difficult for aliens to retreat.

[Basilisco]

The reason i don't like to play as alien in that map is because of the alien base, it's full of long and small hallways, doesn't have level, the OM defualt spot is in a little room where big aliens are likely to die horribly while defending.

This while the humans get their main base, with levels. That at the same time is in a closed space, with 2 entrances. That to make it even more unfair, has a looong and small hallway for aliens to attack and retreat.

+ the laggy radar-killer L form hallway.
---------------

I hope the alien base get redesigned, and those lame hallways widen a bit. Maybe with that dretches could stop getting killed by the spinning-flamer evey human team has. (which is anoying)

[[db@]Megabite]

At stage two aliens can place all eggs at the ceiling in the second room and spam the whole corridor with high acid tubes. It is hard even for a team of 3-4 bsuits to get in with defenders and an active granger present.

Oh yeah, as I mentioned before... with standard build points and a decent number of players the map is well balanced.

There is a reason for the standard build point number... the reason being that the game is balanced at that number. It is perfectly logical that any increase in build points will push balance in favor of the human team as they are more dependant on build points than aliens. The usual effect being turret walls destroying any balanced gameplay.
It is not the fault of the map, it is the fault of a mad server configuration. No offense meant, just my opinion.

Danny

[Lava Croft]

Human original base on Gloom2beta2 is not invulnerable, adv Mara and adv Goon are the class of choice, followed by some Tyrants to keep the humans busy. The fact that the humans just sit behind their defenses is not limited to Gloom2beta2 only, it goes for every map and every game.

[DarkRogue]

Human original base on Gloom2beta2 is not invulnerable, adv Mara and adv Goon are the class of choice, followed by some Tyrants to keep the humans busy. The fact that the humans just sit behind their defenses is not limited to Gloom2beta2 only, it goes for every map and every game.

or if you're patient, sneak in with dretch, wallwalk up onto the vents and wait.

Humans will move 90% of their base to the forward room leaving the reactor behind (usually - some actually move it too) you can then drop down, evolve, rape reactor then as humans rush to see if they still have power....jump down and kill teles and arm

Did it one map. The humans were a collective WTF!!!!!

[Paradox]

Sometimes, it is still fun to go with goon and snipe the armory, since humans never move it. This is the only way the aliens can win.

[DarkRogue]

Sometimes, it is still fun to go with goon and snipe the armory, since humans never move it. This is the only way the aliens can win.

Not so. There's a dozen different tactics to beat humans in their start locale. We've barely knocked the tip off the iceberg. Thing to remember with beta two is the multiple entry ways, extra levels to some degree do help humans...but they also help aliens for dropping down, hopping up, escaping etc.

[Neo]

yeah, on a standard config aliens have the advantage, as once you get a couple of tyrants humans can't build turrets fast enough up there.

[Markimedes]

I think what needs to be pointed out here -once again- is that the server in question had boosted BP, meaning arond 6-8 teslas and a few turrets were placed around the aformentioned staircase, making it impossible to break into so long as humans defended it from the obvious adv dragoons. In the mentioned instance, no amount of marauders hopping up there or dragoons pouncing would have been able to puncture these defenses.

So I think the Killaz server should skip that particular level.

[tjw]

Sometimes, it is still fun to go with goon and snipe the armory, since humans never move it. This is the only way the aliens can win.

Or my personal favorite: snipe the reactor through the grate in the floor.

[kozak6]

Amazing.

I didn't even know there were vents or floor grates.

[Paradox]

they are around the central column.
Thats how i get spawns.

It is so funny. The humans will be fighting along, base unprotected. Some go attack, and die. They then try to spawn, confident. Then the calls begin "OH NOES! NO SPWNS!. Then, snipe the armory, and game over.

[Stof]

So, Adv Dragoons can snipe through that gate into the human base ? Thanks for the info since it means humans can spam down lucifer through that same grate. And not only that but since they'll probably stay near the reactor doing so, they'll be able to rapidfire never-reload spam the lucifer or the pulse rifle

[tjw]

So, Adv Dragoons can snipe through that gate into the human base ? Thanks for the info since it means humans can spam down lucifer through that same grate. And not only that but since they'll probably stay near the reactor doing so, they'll be able to rapidfire never-reload spam the lucifer or the pulse rifle

Obviously, I should have kept this detail to myself.

[Neo]

Don't want to break the illusion but humans have been doing that ever since the map was first tested. That is most likely how alien players discovered it.

[DarkRogue]

I think what needs to be pointed out here -once again- is that the server in question had boosted BP, meaning arond 6-8 teslas and a few turrets were placed around the aformentioned staircase, making it impossible to break into so long as humans defended it from the obvious adv dragoons. In the mentioned instance, no amount of marauders hopping up there or dragoons pouncing would have been able to puncture these defenses.

So I think the Killaz server should skip that particular level.

And skip every other level. Advanced build points totally throws balance out the window on every map. Even a semi competent builder can make an iron safe defense if he's got enough build points to re-enforce even the crappiest location....