Author Topic: Sheep Voting (Read 10294 times)

rambone · « **on:** June 16, 2006, 10:26:19 am »

I was playing on a server and there were 2 people named MillionMonkey, well, one was [LLJK]MilMonkey, the other was [LLJK]MillionthMonkey. As far as I care, they're both morons, but I digress... The MillionTHMonkey was playing the game, not bothering anyone, but this douchebag MilMonkey kept going on about how that was his name, yadda yadda.
After listening to this asshat toss questions "only the real monkey would know," he put a vote to kick the other guy. The other guy didn't have massive kills, but he was just playing the game, as is expected. And for some reason, everyone just presses F1 to vote the guy off. That is some lame shit. If the remaining guy really is "the" MillionthMonkey, then anyone with LLJK appended to their name should be ashamed. It's too bad there aren't enough admins to be around most of the time.
It would be nice if the vote command asked for a reason. I take that back, people should ask for a reason and not just approve the kick. Ah, gotta love multiplayer games online...
/end_rant

Henners · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2006, 10:54:11 am »

Millionth monkey is in the right.

The other guy is someone called D, who is a known lamer/deconner/trouble maker. He has been banned from AKKA for his behaviour, and blames millionth monkey for this. Hence he now trys to impersonate him, and cause trouble to make monkey look bad.

Quote

D is currently using the names "turtle" and "[LLJK]MillionthMonkey" on BeerGarden to carry out his sordid revenge plot. Since I'm [LLJK]MillionthMonkey, it's not hard to tell when it's him and when it's me. D types in lowercase, has no idea what LLJK means, and rarely gets more than five kills a game as an alien. He's also got a substantially lower ping (50s) than I do (70-80).

So if you see my name acting like a fuckhead and generally being clueless, check the ping. It's not me, just D getting pissy because I laughed at him for getting banned.

rambone · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2006, 11:04:16 am »

This is what people need to watch out for. Anyone can change their name to be whatever they choose. Whoever this D person is, I'm willing to bet that more than a few people have used that name in a game to cause problems. I've played with a character called D many times. Not once did I have a problem. This game needs to give players some identifying characteristic, because letting everone change names on a whim is just asking for problems.

UnplayedNamer · « **Reply #3 on:** June 16, 2006, 11:23:18 am »

It happens all the time - last night I was playing on the ESA(?) server and someone did a vote to kick a player who was being builder - nobody asked why, they just kicked him. He was just trying to move the spawns to a better place. *sigh* I then got kicked later for 'not remaking the armory' when the humie base was under attack (started by Yoda). My explanation of 'It was SD' (which it was well into) clearly wasn't listened to, except by one other.

Didn't occur to others that Yoda may just be feeling a bit stupid for sitting next to an egg, spawn killing, whilst the humie base was busily being clawed apart.

I give up. Too many sheeple, shouty newbs and griefers. I just wanted a fun game

MillionthMonkey · « **Reply #4 on:** June 16, 2006, 12:36:59 pm »

Quote from: "rambone"

I was playing on a server and there were 2 people named MillionMonkey, well, one was [LLJK]MilMonkey, the other was [LLJK]MillionthMonkey. As far as I care, they're both morons, but I digress... The MillionTHMonkey was playing the game, not bothering anyone, but this douchebag MilMonkey kept going on about how that was his name, yadda yadda.

Yeah, I was a little peeved because I'd just logged onto a random generic-named Tremulous server and been booted for griefing less than five seconds after logging on. I relog and ask what the hell was going on and am informed that I had logged on less than ten minutes earlier and deconned both the reactor and the OM before being kicked. I was confused right up until I saw the "new me" on BeerGarden.

So yeah, nerd rage. I don't like getting kicked because he was going around deconning things while using my name. I like playing the game and having a good time.

Quote

After listening to this asshat toss questions "only the real monkey would know," he put a vote to kick the other guy. The other guy didn't have massive kills, but he was just playing the game, as is expected. And for some reason, everyone just presses F1 to vote the guy off. That is some lame shit. If the remaining guy really is "the" MillionthMonkey, then anyone with LLJK appended to their name should be ashamed. It's too bad there aren't enough admins to be around most of the time.

I didn't kick vote, Cheesepuff did. The only time I'm not too busy killing the other team to kick vote is when someone's deconning a base, and he wasn't deconning a base in that particular game.

Asshat, indeed.

icono[celt] · « **Reply #5 on:** June 16, 2006, 04:13:17 pm »

The funny thing is that you don't even need to have the same name to be targeted. Last night on trem (or was it beer garden?) I was running around whoring the construction kit when I see turtle innocently decon 2 turrets and our only spawn. I vote kick him, and when he comes back as he invariably does he spends the next half and hour or so calling votes to kick me, while he shoots the spawns, decons half our base, all the while claiming to be innocent, and "only wanting to move it farther up."

The really crappy thing is that I got kicked, multiple times. And no one listened to me.

It was the evil combo of griefers and sheep voting. :evil: Two of the greatest evils known to man, besides that green gunk that grows on your drain once in a while.

I realize I should have probably just left the server for good and found somewhere else to play, but I take some small measure of geekish pride in base construction, and deconners just piss me off. People need to say what is going on and other people need to listen, and watch out for their base if someone is shouting about deconners.

Please don't jump for F1 unless you know the guy is bogus from immediate experience.

Neo · « **Reply #6 on:** June 16, 2006, 07:49:38 pm »

Luckily that doesn't seem to happen on the db@ servers. Though i've had similar when someone repeatedly keeps trying to vote you off for being the highest scorer and kept failing. I simply called a vote on him and everyone voted him off.

I always F2 unless someone posts a reason or I can see why that person needs kicking. Only problem is a base killer can kill your base before the vote timere runs out.

Boggy B · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2006, 12:26:27 pm »

I think that adding an IP-based ban feature to deal with deconners should be considered in the next release of Tremulous. Also, we need to be able to kick spectators and people who change from playing to spectating while a vote to kick them is in progress; it's possible to evade a kick vote by dying and then leaving one's team, and I've seen one guy abuse this far too much.

Neo · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2006, 02:40:57 pm »

IP bans aren't really that effective due to most ISPs using dynamic addressing. So you may ban someone now and all he has to do is refresh his IP and come back while someone else comes onto the server for the first time and find themselves banned.

MadMan2k · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2006, 08:40:23 pm »

Quote from: "Neo"

IP bans aren't really that effective due to most ISPs using dynamic addressing. So you may ban someone now and all he has to do is refresh his IP and come back while someone else comes onto the server for the first time and find themselves banned.

but it is at elast better than nothing and quite easy to implement...

Boggy B · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2006, 01:55:23 pm »

Quote from: "Neo"

IP bans aren't really that effective due to most ISPs using dynamic addressing. So you may ban someone now and all he has to do is refresh his IP and come back while someone else comes onto the server for the first time and find themselves banned.

That's a good point... MAC bans maybe? I don't know whether that would cause performance issues or even really be possible, but I've only seen MAC addresses change when users change them manually (and probably at least a few problem griefers don't know how to change their MAC). But even if banning based on MAC addresses won't work, the ability to kick spectators should be included to stop deconners from dodging kicks.

Neo · « **Reply #11 on:** June 18, 2006, 02:12:46 pm »

Maybe make votes, so they don't rely on your team setting, so if you change it still comes into effect.

MAC banning is the most effective, as I think the switchable ones aren't really easily accessable to the public. Just you'd need to code it somehow to query the mac address.

Paradox · « **Reply #12 on:** June 18, 2006, 04:27:58 pm »

If he does any of this on KillaZ server, i will ban him when i get back. He has caused problems there, and we are on instructions to ban first, ask questions later with him.

raf · « **Reply #13 on:** June 18, 2006, 05:58:07 pm »

Quote from: "Neo"

Maybe make votes, so they don't rely on your team setting, so if you change it still comes into effect.

MAC banning is the most effective, as I think the switchable ones aren't really easily accessable to the public. Just you'd need to code it somehow to query the mac address.

apt-get install macchanger
ifconfig eth0 down
macchanger eth0
ifconfig eth0 up

[db@]Megabite · « **Reply #14 on:** June 18, 2006, 07:05:21 pm »

Most people use hardware nat-routers for their internet connection. As the network behind it is masked, any internet host would see the router mac and that is not very likely to be changed easyly.
People not using a router are rather unlikely to be geek enough to find out how to workaround something like this...

All in all more effective than IP bans, for sure.

Danny

Stof · « **Reply #15 on:** June 18, 2006, 07:45:02 pm »

Quote from: "[db@

Megabite"]Most people use hardware nat-routers for their internet connection. As the network behind it is masked, any internet host would see the router mac and that is not very likely to be changed easyly.
People not using a router are rather unlikely to be geek enough to find out how to workaround something like this...

All in all more effective than IP bans, for sure.

Danny

You cannot find the MAC address of computer. MAC is a LAN only information. At best you can get the game to send the MAC address as a kind of id but that's all. And besides, it's easily hacked.

tuple · « **Reply #16 on:** June 18, 2006, 08:38:15 pm »

Perhaps a random UID created at install, or created on connection to server. A server could then track name changes, IP changes, etc.

Bans would be more effective until someone found how to remove/change it. Perhaps then a MD5 checksum stored in binary somewhere and read at game start that verified the file and did something if the file had been altered. Or passing the checksum to the server on connection for verification from last connection?

Just some suggestions for tracking. Obviously a lot of holes in such a general concept, but I thought I'd mention it.

Stof · « **Reply #17 on:** June 18, 2006, 09:57:30 pm »

I give it 5 minutes for someone to produce a patch which regenerates the UID at each game start if not at each map change.

Heathbo · « **Reply #18 on:** June 24, 2006, 07:17:16 pm »

How about a combination of all the above. What I mean is,

1. Each server assigns a UID to a player when they start playing.
2. The server will keep a record for the duration of the game of what UID are assigned to what IP address.
3. Every time a player logs in to play the server checks the UID and IP address of the new player,
4. If the UID and/or the IP address has been used already in this current game they are locked out.
5. The only way around this would be to quit the game, disconnect from the internet, reconnect to the internet, and startup the game again.

I think trying to get around this would be more of a hassle than most players are willing to do.

Just a thought

Stof · « **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2006, 11:50:57 am »

By brother will love it when it'll become impossible to play at the same time on the same server

Monomi[FIN] · « **Reply #20 on:** June 25, 2006, 09:27:25 pm »

Well, should I open my mouth here. I was playing in ESA (which has given me troubles before because decons...). I wasnt playing at home, but with my freind (who plays with nick Vaanaset), I tought that I should build some eggs around the map so we would have the trouble runing as grangers while humies are after our tail, so suddenly somebody deconned us, and there was three other Grangers around, this deconner then called a vote to kick me "HE'S TEH FUCKING DECONNER!" and violá! 11 vs 4 was the result and I was kicked before saying a thing. Then I logged back to ESA and vote was called again, but this time I was luckier/faster "I didn't do it!" and some observator (bless him/her) standed beside me saying "He didn't o it".

This is somewhat annoying (alltought for so long I havent had troubles with these "long lost twins") so I'd say to protect the innocent humies/aliens there should be a unic nick for anyone so nobody could decoy and then chanse their name to someone who is a builder or something.

Oh and sorry if my writing is impossible to understand, but english is fourth language I speak. ^^'

rambone · « **Reply #21 on:** June 25, 2006, 10:10:08 pm »

I feel your pain. At least you had someone speak up for you. Usually people just chime in with "fucking deconner" while the real griefer probably laughs his ass off.

Boggy B · « **Reply #22 on:** June 26, 2006, 07:09:49 am »

Hi,
rasz_pl posted an idea on another thread that I thought was worth repeating here. Basically, the idea is to make decons votable; when someone presses the button to deconstruct something, their team votes on whether the bisnatch actually gets deconstructed. Rasz's idea had more details... I think something about the vote not being required if the person deconning has a certain number of enemy kills.
It might not prevent griefers from posing as reputable players, but it will make griefing considerably harder.

It's one of the best ideas I've heard for dealing with griefers; it doesn't depend on a hard-to-implement, easy-to-crack identification system, and it's worth being considered by the developers IMHO.

Henners · « **Reply #23 on:** June 26, 2006, 11:42:07 am »

The severe problems with that system were also discussed in that thread. Its no wonder cure...

Gimp · « **Reply #24 on:** July 03, 2006, 01:04:15 am »

what about client ban, does'nt that ban the computers registry or something

Chaos Weevil · « **Reply #25 on:** July 06, 2006, 07:15:47 am »

No, client ID is assigned by the server at when you join the game. So Clientkick works, but clientban would not.

Howitzer · « **Reply #26 on:** July 06, 2006, 01:20:31 pm »

I want MAC banning.
Seriously.
It would be FAR more effective, ex: afaik most routers bind people by their MAC adress and then give them an IP, if the MAC adress changes, it's quite a hassle to configurate everything again..

Stof · « **Reply #27 on:** July 06, 2006, 01:40:45 pm »

MAC banning is NOT effective ! There is no way for the server to know the MAC address of the network card in the client PC, except if the Tremulous client sends that info. MAC is a local network only information. And if it's up to the client to send the info, you can use a modified client to send fake data at each server connect.

Also, your talking crap about the router and the MAC address so please, stop talking about things you know nothing about.

tuple · « **Reply #28 on:** July 06, 2006, 04:38:14 pm »

It would be the BEST DOS you can imagine! Don't like a server, connect and get yourself kick/banned, the admin bans your MAC, which is actually the MAC of the router upstream from the server, and suddenly EVERONE is kicked.

That would be hilarious though

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Author Topic: Sheep Voting (Read 10294 times)